All Things My Lady Bibliophile

[Rachel333]

Thanks for bringing this up, I hadn't looked at her blog in a long time. I noticed she liked this book, which, per one reviewer on Goodreads, is about "one woman's journey from her place in life as a lesbian, radical-feminist English professor to a stay-at-home-Psalm-singing-homeschooling-foster-mom-pastor's wife."

Also, this post is currently sending me on a rabbit trail (that I have to abandon because I need to leave now to see the new Fantastic Beasts movie!). The guest author runs this blog, which seems to be about defending historical characters from modern historians.

Quote

As I study history, I have found that many modern historians are quick to point out the bad deeds that history’s main characters have committed.  And indeed, people in the past were not perfect (just like people today are not perfect).  But I fear that in a quest to make history’s heroes more “human”, their heroic accomplishments have been minimized.  Sometimes their good deeds are deliberately hidden so that the historian or author can preach his political or social agenda.  This is contrary to the 9th Commandment: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”  Here on Defending the Legacy, the goal is to give an honest Christian perspective on history and its characters.  This blog certainly is not infallible, but it attempts to truthfully recount history without any deliberate errors.

The most recent post references a Christian tour group going to federal court to defend themselves against charges of illegal guiding in a national park. They think the government doesn't like their Christian perspective. Here's their post on the issue. There has got to be a lot more to the story and I'm really curious about this now, but I need to make myself get off the computer! 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Rachel333
punctuation

[Lurky]

I'm fascinated why Fundies love Tokien, especially because of the Elvish gods etc (and someone like LB, who thinks books with talking animals are bad except for CS Lewis, but is fine with hobbits, elves, balrogs and so on?)

Anyway, I realised that probably they love his books for the same reason I grew out of them.  I was a huge Tolkien nerd, had read LotR something like 20 times by the time I was 20, but during my later teens, when my political awareness kicked it, couldn't love it any more.  The whole "rich man in his castle, poor man at its gate" thing, where the different species have such narrow, fixed characteristics, and the treatment of women.

All the reasons that Éowyn's treatment frustrated me, even when I was 12 and 13 (I loved her, but then she had to be broken, and the way she had to settle for Faramir, though she loved Aragorn) - the way there were no women allowed in the Quest - Galadriel and Arwen just being cyphers etc.  And then, the orcs - what was their motivation?  Just that they were all born evil an unredeemable.  I absolutely loved Terry Pratchett's take on orcs in Unseen Achademicals, it really spoke to me when I read it (also his take on dwarves too).

But yeah, all the things that drove me crazy, that would be positive for a SAHD....

[mango_fandango]

Oh dear Lord. She's done a "character interview" with Jaeryn. One of the questions is about what "clique" he was in at school. Lady, British schools just do not have cliques in the same way American schools do. 

[Showtunesgirl]

Thank you @alba for creating this thread, I saw your first post but then passed out because...6am (dang rabbit holes!). Anyways, I tried reading her book reviews, especially for books I've actually read, and I just can't take her seriously. I understand that she's reading with a particular fundie lens, but I don't understand how the writer/book lover side of her doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between the author's intended meaning (I.e. The Hunger Games dystopian setting as a commentary of current social issues) and how she would "improve" the story to better represent her Christian worldview (Katniss refusing to allow Prim to participate in the Games and then being martyred for it, which I guess would be a literal short story). Granted, she didn't actually read The Hunger Games, which is another issue in presenting a review for it, but I digress. Her main issue seems to be with the author creating a world that is not a replica of the real world and all its rules and morals. However, MLB's version of the world is an idealistic one, not the realities of the world we actually live in. I feel like it would be beneficial for her to actually see the world outside her bubble and experience how people outside her homeschool circle live. It would help her develop empathy (hopefully) and understand that while sin is black and white, people are not.

[mango_fandango]

Also, major contradiction alert: in the same interview, he says he doesn't want a sweetheart because they take too much of your time or some such shite, then a couple of questions later he says he would like at least one child (preferably a son obviously) to carry on the family name. Uh, you can't exactly have a kid without a sweetheart. 

[nickelodeon]

Fundies really hate The Hunger Games for some reason. Even N.D. Wilson, who approves of YA fantasy like Harry Potter, rails against it online and in the classroom. Sure, they all say it's because murder is wrong or whatever, but let's be real, the book is narrated by a girl. The unconscious impulse to read female narrators with distrust and hostility (while searching for a male character to latch onto instead) is STRONG in fundie readers.

[Palimpsest]

28 minutes ago, Lurky said:

I'm fascinated why Fundies love Tokien, especially because of the Elvish gods etc (and someone like LB, who thinks books with talking animals are bad except for CS Lewis, but is fine with hobbits, elves, balrogs and so on?)

 

Actually, they usually don't love Tolkien. Or C.S. Lewis.  Those elves, hobbits, and talking animals are "ob de debil. "  So is Harry Potter - because magic!

Many of them have major problems with Laura Ingalls Wilder and L.M. Montgomery too - and that is why I have a soft spot for Lady B.

In her own little Fundie way, she kicks some ass.

 

[Snarfblatt]

Oh she loves "Jane of Lantern Hill" which is my second favorite L M Montgomery book. My first being "The Blue Castle" because I identify with Valancy Stirling a little too much sometimes. 

 

 

[Rachel333]

Oh I know a lot of fundies, including Gothardites, who are really into Lewis and Tolkien. For a while after the LOTR movies came out there were always a few kids in my homeschool group who were trying to learn Elvish.

Those books seem to get a pass because of the Christian themes in both. Of course, JK Rowling is a Christian and includes explicitly Christian themes in her book, but fundies don't believe that. I do think that if she had just avoided the word "witchcraft" then a lot of the people who opposed Harry Potter wouldn't have had a problem with it. 

Of course there are plenty of fundies opposed to Narnia and LotR too. On the radicalfemininity blog about Disney ("the Devil's kingdom"), several commenters start discussing Narnia. Apparently having half-animal characters like Mr. Tumnus supports bestiality and evolution!

Edited November 20, 2016 by Rachel333

[Hane]

Sorry, Lady B, but your using the fundie non-word "feministic" and putting correction tape over "language" in "Bleak House" makes me want to kick you in the clam.

[alba]

Oh dear Lord. She's done a "character interview" with Jaeryn. One of the questions is about what "clique" he was in at school. Lady, British schools just do not have cliques in the same way American schools do. 

Oh God you've gotten me reading it now!

Unblemished skin, with a few scars on the face. 

Umm, if there are scars then it isn't unblemished.

And his favourite food is dark chocolate? I don't think solid chocolate was a thing in 1913 (though I can't be arsed looking it up on my phone so I may be wrong about this).

Oh, and did you see the long explanation abouy Jaeryn's name? Nope, not buying that it "could logically be of Celtic origin".

[Lurky]

It's things like the Boyer-adjacent men really being into Tolkien, and Miss Raquel getting a tattoo in Elvish, and MLB, and so on, that boggle my mind.  And the whole thing when they make a deal (like MLB) of loving the Silmarillion best, when that has more of the Elvish gods/sex etc in it.  I can totally see why people are unconsciously smug about having read beyond LotR (I was like that when I was 14 and 15) but it's pretty fascinating to me, why some authors are allowed a pass on things they'd never accept from others.

[alba]

18 minutes ago, Lurky said:

It's things like the Boyer-adjacent men really being into Tolkien, and Miss Raquel getting a tattoo in Elvish, and MLB, and so on, that boggle my mind.  And the whole thing when they make a deal (like MLB) of loving the Silmarillion best, when that has more of the Elvish gods/sex etc in it.  I can totally see why people are unconsciously smug about having read beyond LotR (I was like that when I was 14 and 15) but it's pretty fascinating to me, why some authors are allowed a pass on things they'd never accept from others.

I'm starting to suspect these people don't actually understand half of what's going on in The Silmarillion. I mean, I've read it about half a dozen times, including twice in a single semester when I did a module on Tolkien, and yet I can remember hardly anything besides the Lay of Lúthien (who, for the record, is a badass who escapes her father's for-your-own-good prison by BRAIDING HER HAIR, and then later SINGS Morgoth into submission), because it's all told in such a pretentious manner that I can imagine many SOTDRTers have about as much success understanding it as they do the KJV. They get enough out of it that they know it's 'the Middle-earth Bible', but conveniently miss the bits they don't agree with.

But I do agree that some authors get a pass on things others don't. Tolkien and Rowling, for instance, are/were both Christian, but Tolkien was a traditionalist who wrote, in a letter to his son, that his female students just weren't as clever as his male students; they could, he said, readily absorb concepts taught by their teachers, but it was only the men who were able to think critically In contrast, Rowling is a Labour-supporting feminist.

[Lurky]

I was about to say, the weird thing about the hate-on for Suzanne Collins is she's a practicing Catholic... but then I remembered, for some Fundies, Catholics are worse than Muslims etc etc

[Trynn]

Thanks for bringing this up, I hadn't looked at her blog in a long time. I noticed she liked this book, which, per one reviewer on Goodreads, is about "one woman's journey from her place in life as a lesbian, radical-feminist English professor to a stay-at-home-Psalm-singing-homeschooling-foster-mom-pastor's wife."

Also, this post is currently sending me on a rabbit trail (that I have to abandon because I need to leave now to see the new Fantastic Beasts movie!). The guest author runs this blog, which seems to be about defending historical characters from modern historians.

As I study history, I have found that many modern historians are quick to point out the bad deeds that history’s main characters have committed.  And indeed, people in the past were not perfect (just like people today are not perfect).  But I fear that in a quest to make history’s heroes more “human”, their heroic accomplishments have been minimized.  Sometimes their good deeds are deliberately hidden so that the historian or author can preach his political or social agenda.  This is contrary to the 9th Commandment: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”  Here on Defending the Legacy, the goal is to give an honest Christian perspective on history and its characters.  This blog certainly is not infallible, but it attempts to truthfully recount history without any deliberate errors.

The most recent post references a Christian tour group going to federal court to defend themselves against charges of illegal guiding in a national park. They think the government doesn't like their Christian perspective. Here's their post on the issue. There has got to be a lot more to the story and I'm really curious about this now, but I need to make myself get off the computer! 



When I went to the creation research conference with dad, one of the main speakers actually said "go to the Grand Canyon and wear a badge saying "geologist." People will ask you what they are seeing, and you can talk to them about creation science."

That's what this sounds like to me.

Excuse errors. My phone is doing that thing where the words bounce every time in type them.

[Rachel333]

I was just reading through the comments on the Hunger Games review. There are so many bizarre criticisms of the book. Apparently God designed law so that we will never be forced to do something wrong, so the idea that the parents have no choice in the book is "a clear indication of its faulty ethics and morality." Just... what?

And even in an atheistic world like Panem there will always be a "righteous remnant" still following God, and the fact that the Hunger Games books didn't include this is another problem.

I will say though that I think she has a good point with this.

Quote

As a side note, I am concerned that Collins' original concern for desensitizing television gets turned into movies that seems to be putting those same desensitizing images on screen.

[bjr70]

Fundies really hate The Hunger Games for some reason. Even N.D. Wilson, who approves of YA fantasy like Harry Potter, rails against it online and in the classroom. Sure, they all say it's because murder is wrong or whatever, but let's be real, the book is narrated by a girl. The unconscious impulse to read female narrators with distrust and hostility (while searching for a male character to latch onto instead) is STRONG in fundie readers.

When it's been challenged in libraries the biggest beef has been the lack of God. (I'm studying Library Science and did a short analysis of this for a class.) There is no mention of God or prayer in the books at all. It appears to be an entirely secular society.

[nickelodeon]

2 hours ago, alba said:

Tolkien was a traditionalist who wrote, in a letter to his son, that his female students just weren't as clever as his male students; they could, he said, readily absorb concepts taught by their teachers, but it was only the men who were able to think critically

The irony is that one of his female students was the keenly clever and critically-minded Diana Wynne Jones, who has some funny anecdotes about Tolkien's classroom and how he would give deliberately obfuscating lectures to scare off all his students - all except Jones. So, sorry J.R.R., but I'm calling poppycock on your sexism.

[alba]

Just now, nickelodeon said:

The irony is that one of his female students was the keenly clever and critically-minded Diana Wynne Jones, who has some funny anecdotes about Tolkien's classroom and how he would give deliberately obfuscating lectures to scare off all his students - all except Jones. So, sorry J.R.R., but I'm calling poppycock on your sexism.

I had no idea she'd studied under him! Thanks for the link

[Lurky]

@nickelodeon Love DWJ, so that made me happy, thanks!  (I met her once, and wow, was I an embarrassing fawning fangirl!)

Edited November 20, 2016 by Lurky
I'm an idiot

[Dreadcrumbs]

That character interview with Jaeryn is really something. 

Did anyone else get the feeling he might have a thing for this Ben fellow? 

[Carm_88]

2 hours ago, bjr70 said:

When it's been challenged in libraries the biggest beef has been the lack of God. (I'm studying Library Science and did a short analysis of this for a class.) There is no mention of God or prayer in the books at all. It appears to be an entirely secular society.

That probably is a big part of it with fundies. They don't seem to have a problem with sacrifice in the bible but yet when it comes to being willing to give up your life, so that a precious child can live, that's inhuman. How dare Katniss do that? Here's a question, if Katniss were a guy, do you think they would have as much of a problem with it? Does the fact that she is female play into it as well? 

[bjr70]

That probably is a big part of it with fundies. They don't seem to have a problem with sacrifice in the bible but yet when it comes to being willing to give up your life, so that a precious child can live, that's inhuman. How dare Katniss do that? Here's a question, if Katniss were a guy, do you think they would have as much of a problem with it? Does the fact that she is female play into it as well? 

I think it would be less of a problem if Katniss was male. She's such a strong character, and she continually takes care of Peeta, that she assumes the role traditionally held by a male.

[nickelodeon]

2 hours ago, bjr70 said:

I think it would be less of a problem if Katniss was male. She's such a strong character, and she continually takes care of Peeta, that she assumes the role traditionally held by a male.

YA author and fundamentalist prig N.D. Wilson takes issue with Peeta because self-sacrifice just isn't alpha:

Quote

Many people point to Peeta as the truly noble and sacrificial character. I don’t mind him as a character, but a picture of heroic sacrifice he ain’t. In Hunger Games, he’s fundamentally passive and submissive. He’s that guy who is happy to ‘just be friends’ with the cute girl. Or a lot more than friends (but only if she initiates). He’s just the puppy at her heels. “Sure, kill me Katniss. Oh, you’d rather we both killed ourselves? Yes, Katniss. Whatever you say, Katniss.” Really? There are plenty of guys in the world just like Peeta, and kudos to Collins for using the type, especially since nice second-fiddle fellas like that confuse and conflict girls tremendously. But worldview readers are gaming themselves into seeing something that just isn’t there.)

So yeah, the inverted gender roles of the main characters seems to be very much a problem for fundie readers, whether they admit it or not.

Edited November 20, 2016 by nickelodeon
forgot to add the conclusion!

[dairyfreelife]

Quote

As Protestants, we do not endorse the Catholic church, nor do we hold them as just another different kind of Christian. Many of them do not know the grace of Jesus Christ. 

I grew up Protestant, but my neighborhood friends were Catholic and I went to their church time to time. I hope she means her and her family do not endorse Catholicism and not Protestants in general. Because that is a seriously false statement as many Protestants I know DO consider Catholics just a different branch of Christianity. 

Also to say they don't know the grace of Jesus Christ is a huge brush to paint and I have known many Catholics and I dare MLB to tell any one of them they are wrong and don't know Jesus Christ like she does.