My fundie Catholic wedding experience

[Bethella]

5 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Did anyone else ever make communion bread from scratch?  My loved were almost always whole wheat like the good hippie I am.

I've made communion bread unintentionally. I was in charge of a lunch directly after the service. I was working in the kitchen, when the organist came rushing in about halfway through the sermon saying "Oh my god- they forgot to get bread for communion! Do you have a loaf?" Luckily I was serving soup, salad and bread so I did have an extra loaf for communion and the organist got it to the sanctuary before the end of the sermon. It was a Irish soda bread that had oatmeal in it.

We've recently switched from having a loaf of bread and gluten free wafers to using a gluten-free bread for everyone, it's rather chewy and could almost be called plastic-y but the flavor is good.

[JMarie]

8 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

When there is communion given, it is usually stated by the priest that if you are not Catholic that you cannot receive communion. For me, I don't understand why you would want to take communion if you were not Catholic. At one funeral, I attended my Dad and I spent most of time that we were praying post communion, with our hands over our face because the guy next to us took communion and was chewing it. My Dad had to give him a subtle nudge to the ribs and tell him that he was not supposed to chew it. 

You spend the rest of mass with communion stuck to the roof of your mouth or concentrating on how to get it off with your tongue without making obvious faces. It's not amazing or anything. 

Try unsticking it from your retainer.  Not fun.

21 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

Wow, this service sounds like quite The Production.

I went to one Catholic wedding and one Catholic funeral.  Neither were in Latin.

During the Catholic wedding, the priest must have mentioned having children about 10 times.  I knew the couple were never headed in that direction, and was kinda stunned they allowed that in their service - but I think they were trying to appease the older generations attending -  married 10 years now and still childless.  Ain't gonna happen.

Both ceremonies passed the collection plate during the service.  I found that odd.

That's all I have to add.

Last year I went to a Catholic wedding (my niece's) and a Catholic funeral (my mom's ), and neither had a collection.  And I don't think the priest ever mentioned kids to my niece or new nephew.

[PennySycamore]

@JMarie,  I am so sorry about the loss of your mom.  My mom died about five years ago and I still miss her.  

[PennySycamore]

A bit OT:   I posted yesterday about Luci Baines Johnson  wearing a white mantilla when she was received into the church before her marriage to Patrick Nugent.   What I didn't post is that when Luci got married at the Basilica of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington she had 700 guests at the wedding.  Her wedding was covered live on television  and was viewed by 55 million people.  The wedding made the cover of not People, but Life.  (Us old timers know what a big deal that was.)  Her sister Lynda Bird had a smaller wedding at "home" which was, at the time, the White House.  She was married to Chuck Robb in the East Room.  They will celebrate their golden wedding next year.

[smittykins]

The only Catholic wedding I've ever been to was my cousin's(she converted a few years before I did).  There was a part of the ceremony in which the priest asked if they would accept children, but that was it.  

[JMarie]

12 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@JMarie,  I am so sorry about the loss of your mom.  My mom died about five years ago and I still miss her.  

Thanks Penny.  I still can't believe she's no longer here.  Thankfully FJ has an emoticon that lets me express how I feel.

[zee_four]

On 11/16/2016 at 5:22 PM, Carm_88 said:

I have never heard of a wedding mass being said in Latin and I am Catholic. It's possible of course I haven't been to every church but I find it very, very odd. Same with head coverings, I have never been asked to cover my head. And I have been to a great number of Catholic weddings and a great number of masses. 

And that's not the normal communion prayer. 

As a LGBT loving feminist I'm far from a devout believer but I was raised technically Catholic at my mother's bequest including being Confirmed as a teen in 2010.

The Wedding Mass posted was the norm for all Catholic weddings alongside the standard Tridentine mass in the Roman Catholic Church from the 16th century until 1969 after the meeting of the Second Vatican Council. 

There were a bunch of very specific doctrinal changes but main one was the belief the mass should be celebrated in the vernacular of laity, English, Spanish or whatever that may be, instead of Latin. Catholic bibles in various languages had slowly started to be unofficially allowed. It was the same issue that had began the first Protestant reformations 400 years before.

Traditionalists don't acknowledge the current church hierarchy some going as far to believe that since Pius X all popes have been at best usurpers at worst tools of the antiChrist, apparently oblivious to the irony of repeating Luther. Since they are hostile to the Archdiocese they have no desire to use their facilities and vice-versa.

I've run across a few blogs of their equivalent of Quiverfull followers including  stay at home mother's but they seem to be far less common than independent anti establishment types of fundie Protestants. 

 

[Justmurrayed]

Growing up Catholic there was always a few famillies who went to the regular mass but they bitched a TON about the mass not being "right and true". I went to a Tridentine mass a few years ago and I thought it was beautiful, even to my cold, tiny Atheist heart. I also 100% admit, even though I made a vow in 2003 I would never step back in a Catholic church unless there was a funeral, I've been back a few times  because even though I don't believe the Christian god was there, I do believe my grandfather was and it's the only time I've felt close to him since he died last year. 

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, zee_four said:

As a LGBT loving feminist I'm far from a devout believer but I was raised technically Catholic at my mother's bequest including being Confirmed as a teen in 2010.

The Wedding Mass posted was the norm for all Catholic weddings alongside the standard Tridentine mass in the Roman Catholic Church from the 16th century until 1969 after the meeting of the Second Vatican Council. 

There were a bunch of very specific doctrinal changes but main one was the belief the mass should be celebrated in the vernacular of laity, English, Spanish or whatever that may be, instead of Latin. Catholic bibles in various languages had slowly started to be unofficially allowed. It was the same issue that had began the first Protestant reformations 400 years before.

Traditionalists don't acknowledge the current church hierarchy some going as far to believe that since Pius X all popes have been at best usurpers at worst tools of the antiChrist, apparently oblivious to the irony of repeating Luther. Since they are hostile to the Archdiocese they have no desire to use their facilities and vice-versa.

I've run across a few blogs of their equivalent of Quiverfull followers including  stay at home mother's but they seem to be far less common than independent anti establishment types of fundie Protestants. 

 

While Pius X is a favorite among traditionalists, he's not considered the "last good pope." Pius XII, he of the "Pius Wars" is generally considered the "last good pope." John XXIII is borderline, with some considering him "good" but misguided and other believing he was a communist, masonic dupe. Paul VI is universally despised by traditionalists because he renounced the papal tiara, decomissioned the papal court, and worst of all, replaced the TLM with the "Novus Ordo Mass." Some really far-out there traditionalists even believe "the real Paul VI" was kidnapped by freemasons and communists and held captive in the Vatican so a fake Paul VI could "ruin the church":

http://www.henrymakow.com/was_pope_paul_vi_replaced_by_a.html

http://www.tldm.org/News3/impostor.htm

http://nuestrasenoradelasrosas.org/news1/MysteriesOfPopePaulVI'sPapacy.htm

If you really want to go down a rabbit hole of crazy, google "Paul VI imposter" or "Paul VI kidnapped."

[zee_four]

On 11/17/2016 at 11:57 AM, PennySycamore said:

I was taught when I converted, back in the mid-70s, that you should  chew the host/bread as it is food for the soul and body.  Did anyone else ever make communion bread from scratch?  My loved were almost always whole wheat like the good hippie I am.

I remember Jackie wearing a black lace mantilla at her husband's funeral.  I also recall a picture of Luci Baines Johnson (President Johnson's daughter) wearing a mantilla -a white one- when she was being received into the Church before she married Patrick Nugent.

 

I must be young, since my first memories and definitely since my own first communion the Host has always been though pre-made circular crackers. Your mouth is always dry from not having drank anything since before the start of service, so it sticks to the roof of your mouth until you get through the next line to the chalice. Only takes the tiny sip of wine you get for it to dissolve enough to be able to swallow it completely. I've always liked the flavor of the two together and would let them mix together for a second before swallowing, after I've crossed myself and have started to walk back to the pew. Almost always get a pleasant warm heady feeling after taking it that way that even the heathen feminazi I am still find peaceful and a rare practice I still positively associate with spirituality today.

[PennySycamore]

@zee_four, be grateful that you weren't born before Vatican II.  You used to have to fast from midnight.

Regular old communion wafers are way better than that atrocious bread that Southern Baptists use.  It's like teeny rectangles of saltine, but with less flavor and hard!  It must be based on a hardtack recipe.  It's awful!

ETA:  Karlovarské oplatky or Carlsbad wafers from Karlovy Vary in the Czech Republic near the Bavarian border are divine though.  They're like huge hosts with a thin layer of creme filling.   Yum!!

[Hane]

First off, kudos to @Cleopatra7 for her exhaustive and unfailingly accurate commentary in all things Roman Catholic. You've saved me tons of typing! 

Second--ah, memories! As a kid in the mid-'60s, I remember the advent of the mantilla. It came along at a time when the practice of wearing hats inside a Catholic church was starting to decline. I wore a mantilla when an amazing new innovation came into the Mass: laypeople carrying the gifts (bread and wine for communion) to the altar. I got to do this at our eighth-grade CCD graduation Mass, and I thought it was hot stuff, even though a nun had told me I couldn't be a priest.

[16strong]

Sorry about the delay in the rest of the program. I should have it up tomorrow (or, well, later today). To be honest, it's pretty dry work, though there are a couple of blatantly fundie passages I really want to toss out to you guys. And, I haven't even gotten to the reception (alcohol+dancing, goodbye veils!). I'm really loving the comments, and have learned so much.

[16strong]

Finally, FINALLY, here's the rest. Days later. I may or may not have fallen asleep on this more than once, and then hated the way the outline turned out. So, I changed it. And then changed it again. And then condensed it. There are a thousand and a million verses and prayers that I am not typing out, because days. I also don't have great access to a scanner. As always, feel free to request any prayers in full. I will provide. In a timely manner, even.

I’ve been waffling on outlining the rest of the program in as great of detail and I’ve decided not to, as there are 18 pages left. I’ll list the main points instead, and talk about the reception. I believe I left off with the epistle. 
So, next is the Gospel of St. Matthew, sung by the priest, with its manly man leave and cleave goodness. The priest re-read this in English. Some priestly altar kissing ensued. 

Then, the second part of the mass, the offertory. As far as I can tell, it’s basically your sinful nature, atone for it, Jesus died for it. And then, a chalice of salvation placed on the corporal and covered with the pall; a prayer. Incensing of the altar and blessing of the incense. 

Next, the lavabo, to express cleansing of the soul. The priest washes his fingers, along with a recitation about washing hands among the innocent, take not away my soul with the wicked. My foot hath stood in the right way, and in the churches I will bless thee. 

A prayer to the holy trinity, then the orate fratres, a breaking of the silence where the priest prays for an acceptable sacrifice. Some secret prayers in silent by the priest. 

The preface, said to be one of the most beautiful prayers in liturgy. It is also the most solemn part of the mass, apparently. Just me, but I’d like to leave solemn for funerals. In a lot of ways, this wedding was very funereal. Not much music in major keys, mostly atonal. I’ve never been a fan of Handel, but I really could have done with some water music that day. 

Next, A sanctus, some bells, finally! I enjoyed that part, but couldn’t help but recall the Monty Python Bells sketch. This was followed by the canon of the mass, and a very interesting passage: 
For the church:
We therefore humbly pray and beseech thee, o most merciful Father. through Jesus Christ Thy Son, our Lord, to accept and bless these gifts, these presents, these holy unspotted sacrifices, which we offer up to Thee, in the first place, for Thy Holy Catholic Church, that it may please Thee to grant her peace, to preserve, unite, and govern her throughout the world; as also for Thy servant Francis our Pope, and Wilton our bishop, and for all who profess the Catholic and apostolic faith.

Then, A prayer for the living, an invocation of the saints.

The Consecration, also known as the great central act of the mass. Apparently the Lord descends upon the altar here. Includes an oblation of the victim, words of consecration and elevation. The celebrant genuflects and adores the chalice a couple of times.

Next, prayers after the consecration, oblation to the victim of God. The Pater noster.

Now, the nuptial blessing. Apparently it’s for both the bride and groom, but according to the program, mostly for the groom. Origins are in 2nd century Roman rite. Apparently, even if the husband should pass away, the bride is never again allowed to receive this rite. The program implores the bride to feel privilege at hearing the blessing. Yes, the blessing includes passages about modesty, be fruitful and multiply, be chaste, stay away from physical contact with other men, actually, just kidding, you’re marrying Christ instead. Sorry groom, we don’t need you. Walk away from the altar. Just be careful not to show the altar your back on the way out. Are you visiting the queen of England or our god? We’re not totally sure about that. Will send a letter by post if we find out.
All jest aside, the nuptial blessing is three parts, and very, very long. I will post the full upon request, let me know.

Alright, so now the nuptial blessing has been tackled, we move on to the commingling of the sacred body and blood. Described as the mingling of species after the breaking of the Sacred Host, it symbolizes the resurrection of Christ while in the previous separation, and the sacred species represent His bloody death. A sign of the cross is made over the chalice.

The Agnus Dei, a show of humility by the priest. Recites the words of St. John the Baptist and strikes his breast at each invocation in resemblance of the publican in the temple. The chalice is covered, priest genuflects, bows low, strikes head against breast while praying agnus dei. Choir sings.
Prayers for holy communion, consisting of peace, sanctification, and grace.

Next, communion of the priest. Prays silently. Lots of symbolic gestures.
Communion of the faithful, which we’ve discussed pretty well.

Here’s the prayer: behold the Lamb of God, Who takest away the sins of the world. Lord, I am not worthy that Thou shouldst enter under my roof; but only say the word, and my soul shall be healed. May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ preserve your soul unto life everlasting Amen.
Something interesting that the program indicates here is that much of “our” Catholic theology is based upon St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologiae. Don’t know if this differs from mainline Catholicism, please let me know.

Next up was a communion hymn, panis angelicus, and The Ablutions. The priest and then the bride and groom make a presentation to the Blessed Mother. Choir chants Ave Maria. A communion verse, and then postcommunion.

Conclusion of the mass, and the final nuptial blessing.
The Last Gospel, John 1: 1-14.

At the end of the service, or mass, they shuffled us out really quickly, hence why I don’t have any photos of the church. There was never really a time where I could walk around and snap pictures and look respectful doing it. They also apparently required the couple to use their photographer in the church. There were so many tiny gestures and rituals that I guess they also have rules on how the altar can and can’t be photographed? Maybe they don’t want the wedding party taking lewd photos? 

So, the reception was far more normal to me, although maybe not. Since I live in the deep south, most weddings I go to are dry. Often, even if the couple wants alcohol, one or more sets of parents refuse to allow it. I’m happy to report that there was indeed alcohol here, red and white wine, and then a small selection of the couple’s favorite beers. There was also a you pay bar.

The reception was held at a lovely country club. Food was very southern, but nice. Shrimp and grits, potstickers, fruit, and other little hors d’oeuvres. No mints and punch. The bride and the groom met dancing, so lots of ballroom-style dancing to 70’s funk and disco (the groom’s favorite). Their first dance was really the best one I’ve seen. They definitely practiced it, but didn’t over-choreograph.  Also, even the older guests got down, which isn’t always typical in my experience. They tend to sit on the sidelines and let younger guests do their thing.

Overall, it was a lovely wedding, if not a bit weird, although I didn’t appreciate the priest getting up in the bride’s uterus. The music could have been a bit more celebratory, but hey, can’t have everything.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Hey   --  If Wilton is mentioned as the Bishop, then I know you were in the Archdiocese of Atlanta.  I

I didn't realize there were any fundie Catholic parishes around Atlanta

[Cleopatra7]

44 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Hey   --  If Wilton is mentioned as the Bishop, then I know you were in the Archdiocese of Atlanta.  I

I didn't realize there were any fundie Catholic parishes around Atlanta

To my knowledge, there are two traditionalist groups in the archdiocese of Atlanta. St. Francis de Sales is in Mableton and is staffed by the priests of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, which is in full communion with the Vatican. Not that you'd know that given the number of SSPX supporters and sedevacantists there (in the interest of full disclosure, I will admit that I was once a member there for three very strange years). There's an SSPX chapel in Roswell, GA that I've never visited, but could be the site of the wedding based on the OP's description. I'm surprised there was funk and disco at the reception, since traditionalists, like most white fundies, tend not to like black music, although it's very telling that they danced to it ballroom style.

[16strong]

15 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

To my knowledge, there are two traditionalist groups in the archdiocese of Atlanta. St. Francis de Sales is in Mableton and is staffed by the priests of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, which is in full communion with the Vatican. Not that you'd know that given the number of SSPX supporters and sedevacantists there (in the interest of full disclosure, I will admit that I was once a member there for three very strange years). There's an SSPX chapel in Roswell, GA that I've never visited, but could be the site of the wedding based on the OP's description. I'm surprised there was funk and disco at the reception, since traditionalists, like most white fundies, tend not to like black music, although it's very telling that they danced to it ballroom style.

i should have been more specific. Said couple did quite a bit of ballroom dancing in different styles, but also normal dancing too.

[just_ordinary]

This is all so very interesting to me. I am not really religious, but I was christened (as a baby as it is quite common in general in Germany) and confirmed in a protestant/evangelical church. We tend to make no big distinction between those two terms. The most protestant churches are associated in the EKD (Evangelical Churches of Germany). Depending on the region they are United, Lutheran or reformed. This tends only to show in how the worship service is structured. In Lutheran churches is way more standing involved and pastors tend to sing the liturgy more often (which I love). Apart from that there are several different so called free Protestant churches which are about 0,2% of the overall population. 

That all said, I thought a long time there is only one catholic way of service (except Russian or Greek Orthodox). Your post opened my eyes that there indeed are things like Free Catholic Churches (not Roman Catholic). So THANK YOU. 

In America it seems to me like all those little free congregations are more common than in Europe. 

I am actually a big fan of having a Latin mess for special occasions (me as guest in a Catholic Church). It is because I don't pay always attention to what is said in the prayer anyway. Church is quite ancient and I believe if they want to survive they should reactive a bit of their "mysterious/holy flair" (do I make sense?). But then, as stated above, I am not really religious. I go about 4 times a year (christenings, weddings and funerals not included) and just enjoy the feeling of following the ritus without having to think about it. Makes me feel so calm afterwards. Like Tai-Chi.

[quiversR4hunting]

My first communion was in the early 80's and 2 of the moms made our communion bread. It was yummy and included honey in it.

Fast forward to the year 2000, my mom tracked down the recipe for me and I made it for my wedding. 

Just felt like sharing.

[mango_fandango]

I went to a Church of England primary school and occasionally we did a Eucharist. Even though I'm not religious I didn't have a problem with it. Our "bread" was hot cross buns. We also did the peace-be-with-you shaking hands thing, although being kids we used to see it as an opportunity to shake hands with as many people as possible.  

[Taters]

On 11/17/2016 at 5:29 AM, Coconut Flan said:

That is odd.  I've never encountered asking for a collection at a wedding or funeral of any denomination much less Catholic. 

Hu? I was raised Catholic and there's always a collection. Isn't there?

[louisa05]

3 hours ago, Taters said:

Hu? I was raised Catholic and there's always a collection. Isn't there?

I have never seen one at a wedding or funeral. There is an offertory at every mass where the bread & wine is brought forward and that includes a collection at regular parish masses. But again, I have never seen it at a wedding or funeral mass and rarely at a school mass. 

[Coconut Flan]

I've never seen a collection outside regular masses so never at a wedding, funeral, school, or reconciliation mass.  Thinking back our closest parish doesn't even pass anything on Good Friday. 

[louisa05]

3 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I've never seen a collection outside regular masses so never at a wedding, funeral, school, or reconciliation mass.  Thinking back our closest parish doesn't even pass anything on Good Friday. 

Good Friday service is not a mass. The only day of the year that mass is never celebrated. So there is no place for a collection --no offertory as no bread and wine is brought forward for consecration. 

[Coconut Flan]

Oh yeah you're absolutely right.  I meant Ash Wednesday.  I should not type when not fully together.  I was seeing ashes in my mind so why I typed Good Friday is anyone's guess.