My fundie Catholic wedding experience

[nausicaa]

5 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Even mainstream Catholic parishes will limit communion to Catholics in good standing, but they will allow you to get a blessing from a priest. The rationale is that Protestants don't believe in transubstantiation and other Catholic doctrines pertaining to the Eucharist, so why would they even want to take Communion? However, I do know that sometimes priests will just give communion to whoever approaches them, which leads to much gnashing of teeth from conservatives and traditionists. 

Yeah, my Catholic church growing up was very middle-of-the-road, mainstream, and I remember the priest always giving a reminder at Christmas, Easter, and weddings that only Catholics in good standing could take communion. He tried to make it as friendly as possible. 

That being said, I've never seen anyone actually stopped from taking communion and my understanding is that the transgression is on the side of the person taking communion who knows they shouldn't be. The priest can't refuse communion to anyone approaching him because it's not his job to judge that, it's between the communion recipient and God. Which is why I'm always confused when some prominent bishop says he won't give communion to such-and-such pro-choice politician, because I thought he wasn't allowed to do that.

[PennySycamore]

@tankgirl brought it up but others have discussed it so I'll tell this story.  Twenty-eight years ago, we lost our premie daughter at the age of 11 months due to chronic respiratory disease.  I was a LLL Leader at the time and many of my sister Leaders came from all over SC to the funeral.  Just a week later, this same group was at the funeral of another Leader's husband.  Tom had tragically been killed in a traffic accident as he was driving back from the Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia with the two oldest kids.  At Katherine's funeral mass, our priest said nothing about only Catholics receiving communion.  This was not the case though at Tom's funeral.  One of my dear friends, Janet, is Episcopalian and was shocked by this.  IIRC, she went forward anyway because she said that Tom would not have liked the restriction of the Eucharist to only Catholics.

We also had open communion at our wedding eight years earlier. 

[louisa05]

I was also taught that if a person who should not receive communion does so, they are responsible not the priest or EMHC who gives it. 

In my RCIA, the priest also said that it is not a  sin for a person who does not understand the restriction and merely being told is not always understanding. 

Consideeing the way my fundie relatives talk about Catholics, I do not believe they should be receiving or be so damn offended that they cannot. If you believe it is a non-Christian hell bound cult,  why exactly does abstaining from its sacraments piss you off? I had to block one on social media because she continually harassed me about it. 

[Carm_88]

When there is communion given, it is usually stated by the priest that if you are not Catholic that you cannot receive communion. For me, I don't understand why you would want to take communion if you were not Catholic. At one funeral, I attended my Dad and I spent most of time that we were praying post communion, with our hands over our face because the guy next to us took communion and was chewing it. My Dad had to give him a subtle nudge to the ribs and tell him that he was not supposed to chew it. 

You spend the rest of mass with communion stuck to the roof of your mouth or concentrating on how to get it off with your tongue without making obvious faces. It's not amazing or anything. 

[louisa05]

19 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

When there is communion given, it is usually stated by the priest that if you are not Catholic that you cannot receive communion. For me, I don't understand why you would want to take communion if you were not Catholic. At one funeral, I attended my Dad and I spent most of time that we were praying post communion, with our hands over our face because the guy next to us took communion and was chewing it. My Dad had to give him a subtle nudge to the ribs and tell him that he was not supposed to chew it. 

You spend the rest of mass with communion stuck to the roof of your mouth or concentrating on how to get it off with your tongue without making obvious faces. It's not amazing or anything. 

There is no canon law or even directive that the host cannot be chewed. You do not have to sit there with it in your mouth like that.

[Carm_88]

1 minute ago, louisa05 said:

There is no canon law or even directive that the host cannot be chewed. You do not have to sit there with it in your mouth like that.

There's no law but we were always told not to chew, we were told by the Nuns during our Holy Communion lead up that "Jesus is not a piece of meat and you don't chew him like he is one." Therefore, no chewing. 

[louisa05]

1 minute ago, Carm_88 said:

There's no law but we were always told not to chew, we were told by the Nuns during our Holy Communion lead up that "Jesus is not a piece of meat and you don't chew him like he is one." Therefore, no chewing. 

They were incorrect. Do not torture yourself because of what some over zealous nuns told you when you were 7. Unless it truly means that much to you. If so, go ahead. But I feel we should not misrepresent church rules here. 

 

[smittykins]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

When there is communion given, it is usually stated by the priest that if you are not Catholic that you cannot receive communion. For me, I don't understand why you would want to take communion if you were not Catholic. 

*respectfully snipped*

When I was still Catholic, there would be a notice on the inside cover of the missalette to the effect of "We welcome those who are not united with us to worship, however, they cannot receive Communion."

[Four is Enough]

I'm not surprised at the tripling of blessings on the rings. I've even seen that during Baptisms. In the name of the Father, (pour) and of the Son, (pour) and of the Holy Spirit. (pour) And of blessings during marriages, over the couple or the rings, but instead of pouring, priest makes the sign of the cross.. even during funeral Masses. They will incense the body three times at each point of the crucifix.

Oh, and the Mantillas.... I believe there was some increase in the wearing of mantillas after Jackie Kennedy inhabited the White House. Not the beautiful lace mantillas associated with the Spanish, but triangular lace things that could be folded, kept in a little plastic container, and bobby-pinned on if you needed to go into church for any reason. There were also round doily like objects for smaller females.

As a Catholic schoolchild, I wore a beanie (little round cap with a light blue pom pom and my school initials on front) to church. Woe betide you if you forgot it on Mass day, Stations day, Confession Day, or any other day you might be in church. Sister made an example out of you by pinning a TISSUE to your head. And Sister knew how to make those bobby pins go deep.

As that same Catholic schoolchild, I learned the latin responses for Mass. I made my first Communion at a Latin Mass. Vatican II didn't happen until I was in eighth grade. So in fifth grade I learned the latin Mass responses for altar servers, but could NOT perform, because <no> penis.  My daughter and all of my sons all served at altar much later. The wheels of change move very slowly.

[PennySycamore]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

They were incorrect. Do not torture yourself because of what some over zealous nuns told you when you were 7. Unless it truly means that much to you. If so, go ahead. But I feel we should not misrepresent church rules here. 

 

I was taught when I converted, back in the mid-70s, that you should  chew the host/bread as it is food for the soul and body.  Did anyone else ever make communion bread from scratch?  My loved were almost always whole wheat like the good hippie I am.

I remember Jackie wearing a black lace mantilla at her husband's funeral.  I also recall a picture of Luci Baines Johnson (President Johnson's daughter) wearing a mantilla -a white one- when she was being received into the Church before she married Patrick Nugent.

 

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

Mr PPOD is Catholic.  I'm not.  We were married in a Catholic church (with an Anglican minister there as well who said some of the prayers etc) and we opted for the Catholic ceremony without communion because I would not have been allowed to fully participate in that part. The priest there is a friendly guy who usually makes an announcement at Christmas etc.  for the benefit of visitors about who is allowed to take communion and how.  He  always makes a point of inviting the non eligible for communion people to come up for a blessing. 

I do go with my husband to Mass from time to time.  I generally go up to the front at communion time to receive a blessing,but I don't take communion out of respect.  I know what the rules are, I know why they believe their rules make sense.  The priest there knows who I am, so I couldn't really sneak a wafer on the sly there anyway, but we have gone to mass on in other places, so I  could easily do it, but it wouldn't feel right.  If I really want communion I can go to my own Anglican church.  

As for as the Latin thing goes, I remember my husband talking about the former priest in his parish. The guy was very old school and would have done everything in Latin, facing away from the congregation etc.  if he had been allowed.  When they relaxed the rules a bit to allow for the occasional latin mass, he tried adding an all Latin mass to the schedule.  It didn't last.  He only got a few of the older die hard church groupies to attend.  I think he forgot that we live in the left coast.  Going to church at all is pretty conservative, nevermind insisting on Latin etc.  

Oh, and there are 2 or 3 of the older ladies who do the doily on the head thing.  Nobody else.  Two of them wear some beautiful lace affairs,  but this one old lady cracks me up.  She always has the most extraordinary bits of cloth pinned to her head.  Sometimes it looks like it might be a scrap left over from sewing curtains.  Sometimes an enormous lacy handkerchief. Always completely mismatched to her clothes.  Once I swear it was a tea towel.  WTF?  I don't get why she thinks it extra holy to walk around looking like a chintz covered end table, but whatever.

 I have had occasion to speak to her once or twice and she actually seemed kind and a bit shy.   Hmmm, I probably need to stop judging her for her unusual headcoverings. Oy, I'm going to hell for sure! 

 

[Granwych]

Is this church one like those that Mel Gibson and his father are associated with?

[PennySycamore]

8 minutes ago, Granwych said:

Is this church one like those that Mel Gibson and his father are associated with?

In a word, YES!

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

12 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

  Did anyone else ever make communion bread from scratch?  My loved were almost always whole wheat like the good hippie I am.

 

I've never made communion bread, but in the Anglican church here (West coast of Canada, native habitat of the aging hippie) the communion bread is often bits torn off by hand from a loaf of homemade whole wheat bread. Sometimes  by a grey haired dude with a pony tail who has only hazy memories of the 60s.

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

They were incorrect. Do not torture yourself because of what some over zealous nuns told you when you were 7. Unless it truly means that much to you. If so, go ahead. But I feel we should not misrepresent church rules here. 

 

Wow, really? We had the fear of God (pun intended) put into us in second grade CCD to never chew the host! Like we even practiced with unblessed host wafers so that they would dissolve in our mouth. 

1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

I remember Jackie wearing a black lace mantilla at her husband's funeral.  I also recall a picture of Luci Baines Johnson (President Johnson's daughter) wearing a mantilla -a white one- when she was being received into the Church before she married Patrick Nugent.

While I disagree socially and theologically with traditionalist Catholics, I love the look of mantilla veils. Especially Jackie O's. Those things were so flattering and elegant. 

Also did not realize that Luci Baines Johnson converted to Catholicism. President Johnson was Episcopalian, right? I assumed so because Lynda Johnson actually attends an Episcopal church in my area. 

[louisa05]

14 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Wow, really? We had the fear of God (pun intended) put into us in second grade CCD to never chew the host! Like we even practiced with unblessed host wafers so that they would dissolve in our mouth. 

While I disagree socially and theologically with traditionalist Catholics, I love the look of mantilla veils. Especially Jackie O's. Those things were so flattering and elegant. 

Also did not realize that Luci Baines Johnson converted to Catholicism. President Johnson was Episcopalian, right? I assumed so because Lynda Johnson actually attends an Episcopal church in my area. 

The Greek word used in John 6 where Jesus says "eat" actually is "gnaw" or "chew".

[Granwych]

32 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Also did not realize that Luci Baines Johnson converted to Catholicism

It didn't stop her from divorcing Patrick.

[tankgirl]

6 hours ago, louisa05 said:

By canon law, Catholics are only required to go to confession one time a year. More is encouraged but not required for "good standing". That would merely mean being a practicing mass attending Catholic as opposed to someone like my SIL who never goes to mass, says yoga is her religion then infuriates her dad by going to communion at funerals and such. BUT no one, priest or otherwise, stops her. You might notice there are no tests in the communion line

Sorry should have been clearer, I meant you needed to go to confession, before the mass "to get right with God" as we joked, if you had not been actively going up to that point. One Bridesmaid in one of the weddings I went to, did this as she felt Catholic, but didn't regularly go to Mass so went to confession the day before, so she could participate in Communion service at the wedding. Hope that makes it clearer.

Also add me to, the told never to chew communion wafers. I was told you were supposed to slosh the wine in your mouth with the wafer to wash it down. I weirdly liked those odd little wafers.

[Granwych]

As a child in the Dark Ages of catechism, I was told to bite my tongue slightly in order to increase salivation.  I remember, back about 20-odd years ago, a kid in Wychling's first communion class took the wafer out of his mouth and chomped on it.  Sister Evil Principal nearly had an apoplectic fit.

These days,  Wychling, her "chomping" schoolmate, Grampwych, and I have gotten as far away from any church, Catholic or not, as possible.  Wychling said that believing in the god of Christianity just wasn't logical.  Kid was about 10 when she came to that conclusion.

[Cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, Granwych said:

Is this church one like those that Mel Gibson and his father are associated with?

Actually no. The church under discussion is associated with the SSPX, while Mel Gibson is a sedevacantist. The SSPX has always maintained that the current pope (whoever that may be) is valid, but highly flawed and probably a heretic. Their chapels have a picture of the reigning pope and they pray for him, a fact supporters will use to convince mainstream Catholics that they aren't in schism. Sedevacantism technically isn't allowed among its priests, but I think certain factions in the SSPX are going in that direction because of their intense dislike of Pope Francis. The SSPV is a sedevacantist group that broke away from the SSPX because of the question of whether the chair of Peter was empty and also squabbles over property.

As far as I've been able to determine, Gibson is an independent sedevacantist who is unaffiliated with any particular group or faction, unless you count Hutton Gibson to be a faction of his own. In an earlier thread we had on Gibson a couple of months ago, we learned that his priest was once affiliated with a diocese in California (I forget which one), but then decided that he couldn't say the "Novus Ordo mass" anymore out of conscience. Unlike rank and file sedevacantists, who might have to settle with going to a diocesan Latin Mass or an SSPX chapel where their views might not be supported, Gibson is living the traditionalist dream of having a private TLM church of his own. I have to wonder what the ordinary members of his church think of Gibson, since it seems like he and his family are allowed to lead very secular lives, while they are probably doing the long skirts and isolationist homeschooling thing. Since all the parishoners probably sign a NDA, we'll probably never know for sure.

[Granwych]

Good grief.  And here I thought that Protestants tended to go off the deep end. 

And just a few nights ago, I dreamed of going to a church "store" run by priests and nuns and "featuring" Padre Pio.  Weird, weird, weird.

 

[PennySycamore]

Replying to several posts:  

@nausicaa,  I too love those mantilla veils.  I'm a bit glad this old atheist doesn't have to worry about covering her head in church even if I'm just visiting to look at the architecture. Also, LBJ was a member of the Disciples of Christ which is not unusual since he was from Texas.  Lady Bird (his wife and not Hank Hill's dog)  was Episcopalian.  Luci did covert to Catholicism when she married Patrick but since then she's reverted to being Episcopalian.  I don't know which church, if any, her sister Lynda is a member of.

@tankgirl, a priest I knew at UGA 40 years ago used to snack on the basket of hosts the Catholic Center kept there at the baptristry. 

@Cleopatra7, thanks for the clarification about Mel Gibson.  I wrote in haste as I needed to leave for a mammogram.  Should have left earlier and not posted.

 

[tankgirl]

4 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

 

@tankgirl, a priest I knew at UGA 40 years ago used to snack on the basket of hosts the Catholic Center kept there at the baptristry. 

 

 

I feel so happy to hear this, my Gran was pissed at me, when I asked if the priests snacked on the un-blessed ones or the left overs, I always was fascinated, by how they kept them and the holy water, as a kid. I was shit at religion, but I had all these overly elaborate visions of how stuff worked in the back room, and it included wafer eating priests.

All the best on your boob test today!

[December]

19 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Before 2008, a priest had to have permission from his bishop to say the Latin Mass publicly. This was based on an indult (i.e., the pope giving special permission for something that ordinarily wouldn't be allowed) John Paul II gave in 1988 as a way to try to bring the SSPX back into the Vatican fold.

Hah, this takes me back. I remember in the early 2000s a (regular, not fundie) church in my town got permission for a Latin mass. It was a fairly big deal. My school's Latin class offered extra credit for attending (not for religious reasons, just for educational purposes!)

[ADoyle90815]

One thing about the mantillas is that my grandma and other women before Vatican II always kept a lace scarf in their purses so they were prepared if they went inside a church. When my brother married in a Catholic church because my now SIL was still a practicing member, she had a separate bouquet to place at the feet of the Virgin Mary's statue. This was a mainstream Catholic church, with the only non-English mass being in Spanish due to the Hispanic population in the area.