What the actual...WHO DOES THIS?! (Contains triggers)

[doggie]

This is so sick I very much doubt trump cares about abortion and I bet he has paid for at least a few of them himself.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/11/07/a-catholic-priest-put-an-aborted-fetus-on-the-altar-in-an-appeal-for-donald-trump/?postshare=6461478559004312&tid=ss_tw

Quote

Ahead of Tuesday’s presidential election, the Rev. Frank Pavone took an aborted fetus, laid it upon an altar Sunday and posted a live video on Facebook. Pavone, a Catholic priest who heads New York-based Priests for Life, said the fetus was entrusted to him by a pathologist for burial.

During an already heated and divisive campaign season, Pavone’s video has raised questions for some about what is appropriate antiabortion and political activism in the church. As of Monday afternoon, the video, which is 44 minutes long, had 236,000 views. In it, he holds up a poster of graphics of abortion procedures.

In Pavone’s Facebook appeal, he wrote, “we have to decide if we will allow this child killing to continue in America or not. Hillary Clinton and the Democratic platform says yes, let the child-killing continue (and you pay for it); Donald Trump and the Republican platform says no, the child should be protected.”

 

[quiversR4hunting]

This is being talked about here:

Not sure how to get it to be merged.

[LadyCrow1313]

Sick, sick, sick. I can understand shock value to a certain extent, but he's crossed a line & this goes waaaay too far. I refuse to click on the link for his page.

[Phoebe]

40 minutes ago, polecat said:

I find this deeply offensive. I, too, have a feeling that this was a stillborn child -- much like those pictures of "aborted fetuses" used by the prolife movement are often miscarried pregnancies. It shows how very little they respect life and how little they respect women all in one fell swoop. As a woman who has experienced pregnancy loss, I am sickened and saddened by this.

I'd put the gestational age early in the third trimester.  Much too late for anything but an extremely rare medically necessary abortion, OR a much more common stillbirth.  Between the physiological development of the fetus and the decomposition? bruising?  on the fetus's body, I'm thinking stillbirth.  It makes me rage though -- a doctor, a pathologist, entrusted the remains (I assume on the behalf of the family, much like a medical examiner's office would release a body to a designated recipient after getting done with an autopsy) to Pavone believing that Pavone would do the right thing and ensure the remains were treated with respect.  Maybe the family couldn't afford a burial and hoped the Church would respectfully lay the fetus to rest.  Maybe they couldn't emotionally handle one. more. reminder. of the lost baby.  Any number of things. 

The Archdiocese of New York published a statement condemning Pavone's actions:  http://archny.org/news/a-political-desecration#.WCEFUn9t37B.twitter

And here is the link to Bishop Zurek's secretary's email: rlucero@dioama.org

[Terrie]

I would note that we don't have confirmation that this was elective abortion, despite what the guy claimed. I feel awful for the family, who probably doesn't know what is being done.

[Phoebe]

22 minutes ago, Terrie said:

I would note that we don't have confirmation that this was elective abortion, despite what the guy claimed. I feel awful for the family, who probably doesn't know what is being done.

It would be a mercy if the family doesn't know.

[Cleopatra7]

4 minutes ago, Terrie said:

I would note that we don't have confirmation that this was elective abortion, despite what the guy claimed. I feel awful for the family, who probably doesn't know what is being done.

Whether the fetus was obtained through an elective abortion, a natural miscarriage, or a stillbirth, I sincerely doubt that the person or persons from whom it came from gave permission for it to be used in this ghastly manner. And even if they did, it would still be wrong because there are just some things you don't do. At least it seems like most people, regardless of their views on abortion, agree that this act was appalling.

[kunoichi66]

6 hours ago, Lurky said:

It seems the pathologist gave him the fetus for burial, but he decided to desecrate it instead (can you even imagine being the woman who had the abortion?  The fact it was passed by the pathologist for burial means the abortion was most likely for medical reasons. 

I can't see how this is even legal under secular or church law, in any way.  I am beyond horrified about this whole thing.

oh my God, yes.  I didn't even think about that, I just assumed he had robbed a grave (as if that's better).

 

It can't be legal, it can't be, it can't be....*gibbers in a corner*

This is just too horrifying

[FakePigtails]

Holy shit. This has to have broken a number of laws. Someone please tell me this has been reported to authorities so he (and the pathologist, if he knew what would happen) can be prosecuted.

[Black Aliss]

15 minutes ago, FakePigtails said:

Holy shit. This has to have broken a number of laws. Someone please tell me this has been reported to authorities so he (and the pathologist, if he knew what would happen) can be prosecuted.

You mean, like this one? http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-42-08.html

 

[ILoveJellybeans]

That is disgusting. He was given this corpse to bury, most likely because this was either a stillborn or was very much wanted but was aborted due to having severe medical issues, because the parents thought that the best thing was to give them a peaceful death in the womb, rather than be born and suffer a very short life. Most people who want abortions do so in the first few weeks, as they want it done as soon as possible, at that size, its far along, and abortions done at that time are mostly due to severe birth defects that are incompatible with life. Also nobody who had an abortion because they didn't want to be pregnant has a funeral for it or gives it a burial, it isn't required to be buried and is put with all the medical waste. 

I hope this guy gets in major trouble for this disgusting act. Im not even Christian, but it is disrespectful to put a corpse on the altar for political purposes.

 

[Jess]

He belongs in jail and that church should lose its none profit status. 

[VooDooChild]

I'm totally disgusted and can't wait to see if anything comes of this.  If the worst he gets is the NY Archdiocese issuing a condemning STATEMENT, then I would like to move to mars.  The amount of stupidity in my country is getting to be too much for me.  

[Cleopatra7]

This story is making the national rounds and even the Catholic media and blogosphere is slamming Pavone:

https://cruxnow.com/cna/2016/11/08/priest-slammed-using-dead-baby-political-prop/

I don't see how Pavone's archbishop can not discipline him, because he's making the Catholic Church and the anti-abortion movement look horrible. The only outlet I've seen supporting him is LifeSite news, which is little better than a tabloid, even by Internet standards.

[Four is Enough]

7 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

This story is making the national rounds and even the Catholic media and blogosphere is slamming Pavone:

https://cruxnow.com/cna/2016/11/08/priest-slammed-using-dead-baby-political-prop/

I don't see how Pavone's archbishop can not discipline him, because he's making the Catholic Church and the anti-abortion movement look horrible. The only outlet I've seen supporting him is LifeSite news, which is little better than a tabloid, even by Internet standards.

Oh, if Trump wins, I'm sure Pavone will be a HERO, but NEVER in my life as a Catholic, have I EVER seen anything on the altar save the Eucharist. This is so far beyond the pale that I don't know If I can come back from this.

ETA: Someone should have alerted the Pope by now, so maybe this little fella will be taking a trip to Rome... forever.

[lost-n-found]

Bishop Patrick J. Zurek of the Diocese of Amarillo released a statement:

 

Quote

• Priests for Life, Inc., is not a Catholic institution, but a civil organization, and it is not under the control or supervision of the Diocese of Amarillo. 
  
• Father Frank Pavone has posted a video on his Facebook page of the body of an aborted fetus, which is against the dignity of human life and is a desecration of the altar. We believe that no one who is pro-life can exploit a human body for any reason, especially the body of a fetus. 
  
• The Diocese of Amarillo deeply regrets the offense and outrage caused by the video for the faithful and the community at large. The action and presentation of Father Pavone in this video is not consistent with the beliefs of the Catholic Church. 
  
• The Diocese of Amarillo is opening an investigation about all these matters. 

 

[desertvixen]

Quicker "contact us" link for Amarillo diocese: http://amarillodiocese.org/contact-us

[BobTheWalrus]

22 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Regardless of how one feels about abortion, I don't see how anyone can think this is okay. Furthermore, if one really believes that fetus is/was a person, using its body for a cheap political stunt was dehumanizing and exploitative. Even if you don't think it was a person, it's still dehumanizing and exploitative. Who was he trying to convince with this? Presumably, everyone at the mass knows his reputation and already agrees with him on Trump and abortion. Plus, the pathologist who have him the fetus must be in breech of medical ethics, since I don't think you're supposed to give medical waste to third parties, especially not for political purposes. 

Exactly my thoughts, but much more coherent.  I am pro-life, but I hope to be so in the broadest possible way. Which means respecting human beings as individuals with dignity because they are made in God's image.  It means respecting life and wanting to promote and respect it in every way.  What this man did is not a pro-life action; it is an abhorrent, disrespectful political stunt not at all protective of women or children. I know his point of view is that he wants to make an impact in order to save babies' lives, but this is disgusting and dehumanising.

[Four is Enough]

Brava to both Cleopatra and Bob the Walrus! This stunt both desecrated the altar of God and showed disrespectful treatment of human remains! I hope there is an investigation, including a criminal one, for the use of human remains as propaganda!

[Cleopatra7]

4 hours ago, BobTheWalrus said:

Exactly my thoughts, but much more coherent.  I am pro-life, but I hope to be so in the broadest possible way. Which means respecting human beings as individuals with dignity because they are made in God's image.  It means respecting life and wanting to promote and respect it in every way.  What this man did is not a pro-life action; it is an abhorrent, disrespectful political stunt not at all protective of women or children. I know his point of view is that he wants to make an impact in order to save babies' lives, but this is disgusting and dehumanising.

The more I think about this story, the more squicked out I am. Could you imagine Pavone putting the body of an elderly woman whom he felt had been unjustly taken off a feeding tube (by Catholic standards) on the altar? The way this fetus' body was used would have never been done with any other type of human remains, which seems to do the exact thing Pavone says is wrong, which is objectifying a fetus by virtue of being a fetus.

[Terrie]

Apparently, there's a possability this is a preserved fetus that he's kept around. Some people have pointed out saline abortion isn't widely used in the US anymore and the marks match images used by the organization over several years. Sickening, and completely without respect.

[kunoichi66]

2 hours ago, Terrie said:

Apparently, there's a possability this is a preserved fetus that he's kept around. Some people have pointed out saline abortion isn't widely used in the US anymore and the marks match images used by the organization over several years. Sickening, and completely without respect.

what..?  Why would anybody outside of a medical facility or museum (and I tend to think those are kind of sketchy too) keep a fetus? Where did he keep it - in his basement?  Does he have anything else down there we should know about?

[Lurky]

3 hours ago, Terrie said:

Apparently, there's a possability this is a preserved fetus that he's kept around.

But that would still be a fetus given to him for burial?  A pathologist couldn't just give a fetus away to someone to use like this, surely??

[Four is Enough]

If he's been keeping it around, that is completely against Church teachings. And agreed with the poster who said nobody would dream of using an elderly woman's remains this way. Reprehensible.

[louisa05]

Catholic media both conservative and liberal is calling for his bishop to remove his faculties. 

This would, essentially, mean that he would not be a priest any longer. He would not be allowed to preside over mass or any sacraments. 

It is against canon law to use an altar for anything other than celebrating mass. 

I hope that his bishop indeed chooses that course of action.