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RC Sproul Jr, 2016 MERGED


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3 hours ago, FundieFarmer said:

I know Jr. was on AM, but I don't think she would have been. I think that would've been a bit too much of a scandal and also something they couldn't have explained about how they met. 

I get that vibe about her, @Salty1. When I said "Holier Than Thou", that was really what I was referring to. Mostly fake, with a lot of the reassuring Facebook quotes that are more meant for herself than anybody who's following her.

Exactly.

I tend to laugh when I see some of them.

Also makes me sad, that some very good people and long time friends, have still not figured it out.

She had one the other day, about homeschooling. I found it extremely hilarious.

"RC Sproul Jr.'s School of Spiritual Warfare"

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32 minutes ago, Jencendiary said:

Fair enough. Just felt the need to clear those factors up.

No problem.

I understand completely.

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10 hours ago, Salty1 said:

No personal grudge's, just find it all extremely sad and funny.

Exactly this.  Sad, because she couldn't wait to marry an alcoholic.  Either that didn't matter to her, she didn't realize (how could she not?), or she was actively attracted to an alcoholic (serious enabler).  

Sad for Jr.'s younger kids, who lost their mom and are being raised by this dysfunctional train-wreck of a dad.  Sad also, because they suddenly have a new mom who's kind of a stranger to them.  I hope she loves kids and treats them well. 

The funny is a pattern we're seeing.  Fundy declares beliefs*.  Fundy preaches beliefs to others $$$$$$$.  Fundy radically departs from beliefs, but never bothers to square up with anybody. 

*IIRC, these beliefs included one wife for life and SAHW.  New wife has multiple past marriages and (based on FB) works and has her own business.  

I'm not marking days off on the calendar until Jr.'s trial, but it will be very interesting.  It will be hard to explain away his condition at that traffic stop. 

 

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1 hour ago, Howl said:

.  Fundy radically departs from beliefs, but never bothers to square up with anybody. 

SPOT ON. thank you for saying this. 

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Yes, it seems to be a pattern with some fundy families who held themselves out as leaders and preached and blogged this and that as the unchangeable gospel truth. Their followers turned themselves and their families inside out spiritually and financially to follow these teachings.  

Now some of those fundy leaders/bloggers are going through changes big and small and "relaxing standards," but pretending that absolutely nothing is different or just not bothering to let anybody know.  

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Update on Spanky from Spinderella Sproul: 

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On May 11 Robert Craig Sproul appeared before Judge Wendy Davis in a Pretrial Conference hearing in Allen County Superior Court, Indiana. In that hearing Judge Davis referred RC Sproul Jr's drunk driving case to Indiana Drug Court Treatment at the request of his attorney, Patrick Justin Arata....

...RC Sproul Jr's next court appearance is scheduled for May 30 before Judge Frances Gull to determine his eligibility. Not every case referred to Drug Court Treatment is automatically accepted because not every substance abuser makes a good candidate for the Drug Court Treatment Program. Certain criteria first have to be met, and the judge has some latitude in who she will and will not accept. However, one thing the judge cannot do is accept someone into Drug Court Treatment that doesn't meet the legal requirements. From our read of the law RC Sproul Jr does not meet the legal criteria since prosecutorial deferment only applies to misdemeanor charges (RC Sproul Jr has also been charged with two felonies). As such this legal maneuver gives the appearance of an act of desperation, unless that is Mr. Arata has successfully negotiated with the Prosecutor to defer the felony charges conditional upon Sproul's admission and successful completion of the Drug Court Treatment Program.   There's quite a bit more to read on Spinderella Sproul

This blog entry goes on to discuss how RC might game the Drug Court system, if indeed his case goes that way.  A relative went through two DUIs.   The relative had to have a breathalyzer ignition lock installed in the car and also wear an alcohol-monitoring ankle bracelet that was very sensitive and VERY effective.   I'm sure anyone going though Drug Court for alcohol abuse will be rockin' an alcohol-monitoring ankle bracelet. 

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57 minutes ago, Howl said:

This blog entry goes on to discuss how RC might game the Drug Court system, if indeed his case goes that way.  

The blogger makes some good points.

"Curing" a disease like alcoholism is hard anyway but given Spanky's personality & history + (it looks like) his new wife's willingness or desire to enable him, it doesn't seem like Drug Court has much promise, should he end up there.

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2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

The blogger makes some good points.

"Curing" a disease like alcoholism is hard anyway but given Spanky's personality & history + (it looks like) his new wife's willingness or desire to enable him, it doesn't seem like Drug Court has much promise, should he end up there.

Did Ruth enable Boaz? I must double-check!

I'm asking out of prurient curiosity, not as a challenge:  where does it look like The Second Mrs. Spankster is enabling? (Settling back with a glass of merlot in anticipation!)

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3 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I'm asking out of prurient curiosity, not as a challenge:  where does it look like The Second Mrs. Spankster is enabling?

No citation or photos but an inference on my part because it appears that RC Jr has had a major, VISIBLE drinking problem for years, judging from some of the stories at Spinderella Sproul. The drinking and the abuse appear to be the top two things anyone remembers about Spanky's ill-fated tenure over his cult in VA. 

As we now know, the new Mrs. Spanky has "been around the block" a few times so it's hard to believe that she wouldn't have seen some red flags during their time together.

That Spanky somehow managed to get himself and two minors into a vehicle that he was then driving while so incredibly drunk is nightmarish. Everyone involved is extremely lucky that he was pulled over and STOPPED.

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4 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Did Ruth enable Boaz? I must double-check!

I'm asking out of prurient curiosity, not as a challenge:  where does it look like The Second Mrs. Spankster is enabling? (Settling back with a glass of merlot in anticipation!)

Where does the Ruth and Boaz reference come from? Did I miss something?

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9 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Where does the Ruth and Boaz reference come from? Did I miss something?

Last I looked at The Second Mrs. Sproul's FB page, her cover photo referenced the Ruth-Boaz story, wherein Ruth leaves her pagan people to hook up with the Israelite Boaz. Spoiler alert: Thru her marriage to Bo,  Ruth winds up being the great-grandmother of King David. 

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9 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Last I looked at The Second Mrs. Sproul's FB page, her cover photo referenced the Ruth-Boaz story, wherein Ruth leaves her pagan people to hook up with the Israelite Boaz. Spoiler alert: Thru her marriage to Bo,  Ruth winds up being the great-grandmother of King David. 

Ah, gotcha. I just checked; I had not looked at her Facebook since early times of her being discussed here so I wondered if I had missed some good tale.  I'm quite familiar with the story of Ruth and Boaz, it's one of my favorite books in the Bible :-)

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Re: the blog post. I have no idea how it works in IN but in the state where I am licensed to practice law first DWI offenses are almost always pled down. A felony becomes a misdemeanor and a misdemeanor becomes a traffic violation. Pretty much the only time it doesn't work like that is when the media gets a hold of a story and pressures the DA into feeling (s)he needs to make an example of someone.

I don't know if it works the same way in IN but the idea that the DA has signed off on allowing him to plead to a misdemeanor if he's accepted into the treatment program does not sound far fetched to me.

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@subsaharanafrica, that's quite disconcerting, but at the same time, sounds right.  My relative with two DUIs went through all the many steps mandated by the court over the course of more than a year, and, as far as I know, those DUIs were expunged from the record.  As I mentioned upthread, some of the many steps included wearing an alcohol monitoring bracelet and installing a breathalyzer ignition lock and paying a monthly fee for both. 

However, Spanky's situation involves two minors in the car, so don't know if that ups things to a more serious level. 

If Spanky has been shrewd, he was squirreling away some of that six figure income into solid investments and can afford to cruise from here on out OR Senior and Vesta have that covered for him.  Also book royalties.  Cannot even imagine what Ligonier Ministries is worth if they are paying top level employees in the six figures. I would suspect that Senior and Vesta have also set up trust funds for the kids/grandkids, because when there's that much $$$$$ floating around, it's what you do. 

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2 hours ago, Howl said:

Cannot even imagine what Ligonier Ministries is worth if they are paying top level employees in the six figures. I would suspect that Senior and Vesta have also set up trust funds for the kids/grandkids, because when there's that much $$$$$ floating around, it's what you do. 

According to their IRS 990 for 2015, they reported nearly $24 million in income for that year. 

So, yes, I'd say there's beaucoup bucks for all, even Spanky. 

Here's the current board of directors -- scroll down & it's on the right.

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I want to reply with FB's scowling face to the info above from @Howland @subsaharanafrica but I won't use the downvote  because I'm angry at the potential kid-glove treatment of this abuser, not at my FJ friends who post it. 

I'll be watching to see if there are any Precious-lovers still left who take "his side" and whine about persecution and logs in others' eyes. 

I'm just relieved there are no little bodies in boxes nor suffering children in hospital beds because of his arrogance.

Alcoholism is a disease but Spanky does not appear to want to get treatment.

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24 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

According to their IRS 990 for 2015, they reported nearly $24 million in income for that year. 

So, yes, I'd say there's beaucoup bucks for all, even Spanky. 

Here's the current board of directors -- scroll down & it's on the right.

"Ligonier Ministries' desire is to help the church, and its people, make a difference in this world by understanding the magnitude of the holiness of God."

Give me a break.

Is this the annual report mentioned elsewhere that takes a page from $cientology's book and talks about numbers of distinct hits to the webpage as statistics? And only 3 board members - 2 of them with double duties (CEO & pres)?

I'm ashamed to admit that in '14 or '15 I donated $5 to get a "free" CD they were giving away [sic], just to see the merchandising and hear the teachings st my convenience.  

There was no comparison to the quality and substance of teaching I received in 8 years of religious study during my Luthersn grade-school years!  Shallow, circuitous, showboaty.  

"In 1971, as it is today, the world was filled with challenges to biblical faith. Christians who sought to be equipped to answer these challenges had few options short of going to seminary. Dr. R.C. Sproul saw the need to offer a bridge of learning for the growing Christian but in a way that was accessible and practical, and Ligonier Ministries was born."

Bullshit bullshit bullshit!  Senior may have had good intentions but #1, there were PLENTY of places for adult learning and #2, if they were really "called" to teach, there are far better ways to spend $24MM a year in doing so!

Frauds.  

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56 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Is this the annual report mentioned elsewhere that takes a page from $cientology's book and talks about numbers of distinct hits to the webpage as statistics? And only 3 board members - 2 of them with double duties (CEO & pres)?

Not sure but don't think so. This "non-profit" has been firmly in the hands of Sproul Sr & wife Vesta for many years during which they've drawn comfortable salaries & purchased prime real estate, among other assets, on which to house their godly selves. They have, however, had a larger board than two or three.

Nonetheless, while IANAL nor yet a CPA, I suspect a number of goodies are hidden behind the 501(c)(3) fig leaf. Scrolling down through that 990, they've indicated that individuals listed in "Part VII, Section A, Line 1a" of the 990 (i.e., the board of directors), have received first class and/or charter travel benefits as well as companion travel benefits: 

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The Organization's executive expense reimbursement policy permits two senior members of its executive staff to utilize "first class" seating for air travel when the cost of doing so is economically reasonable in order to accommodate the special physical needs of the individuals and to permit such individuals to productively utilize air travel time to perform work for the Organization's ministry activities When possible, the Organization utilizes frequent flyer miles/points to obtain an upgrade to first class seating The Organization would prefer "business class" flight accommodations for such purposes, however, domestic air carriers do not generally offer business class The 0rganization's Board of Directors considers the selective utilization of such accommodations to be good stewardship of the 0rganization's resources, as loss of productive work time would be costly for the Organization The Organization occasionally provides travel for spouses where such travel serves a bona fide business purpose of the Organization

Note also that, for 2015, the 990 reports that Spanky received the following compensation:

Base compensation: $105,417

Bonus & incentive compensation: $2750

Other compensation: $168

Retirement & deferred compensation: $4, 483

Nontaxable benefits: $51,472

Reported total of above: $164, 290

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42 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

to accommodate the special physical needs of the individuals and to permit such individuals to productively utilize air travel time to perform work for the Organization's ministry activities

Oh, puleeeeeeze (Anderson Cooper-level eye roll here). 

43 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Nontaxable benefits: $51,472

Ooooh, what might these be?  

@hoipolloi, awesome sleuthing and interpretation of tax returns! 

45 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Retirement & deferred compensation: $4, 483

And this -- isn't this a paltry sum for that level of income? 

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3 minutes ago, Howl said:
47 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Nontaxable benefits: $51,472

Ooooh, what might these be?  

My guess would be housing and/or a leased vehicle.

Over the years, there have been accusations of shady business dealings leveled against Sproul Sr, most notably by Frank Vance who blogged about it on his own as well as contributed to Ministry Watchman

Warning: certainly go check those rabbit holes links, but be aware that there are large, interlocking swamps of theological quarreling that are difficult to navigate -- at least for me!

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10 hours ago, Howl said:

And this -- isn't this a paltry sum for that level of income? 

That's slightly more than a 4% match of any retirement contributions. I'm not sure where that number came from because it doesn't seem to be an exact percentage but for someone without a huge bonus package that seems about right. 

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Hmmmmm...I wonder if we could persuade a local FJite to attend the hearing, or possibly, tip off the local MADD chapter that the case needs some attention.  

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17 hours ago, starfish said:

Hmmmmm...I wonder if we could persuade a local FJite to attend the hearing, or possibly, tip off the local MADD chapter that the case needs some attention.  

What would MADD do?  

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59 minutes ago, acheronbeach said:

What would MADD do?  

Perhaps decry special treatment for him or point out the hypocrisy involved and attempts to fly under the radar? MADD in Orlando, Florida might be interested too.

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