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RC Sproul Jr, 2016 MERGED


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On 12/17/2016 at 2:31 PM, snarkopolis said:

If he is an alcoholic, he has built up a tolerance. .15 might just be buzzed (behavior wise) for him.

Good point. And it does seem he's had plenty of time to build up tolerance. Here's a quote from at least a decade ago, courtesy of Spinderella Sproul (the original post is no longer extant, at least to my skills). I've listened to enough addicts in denial to recognize the style:

"I try, like most of us, not to be easily offended. I don't like the other idea of other people having to go about on pins and needles because of my weaknesses. But sometimes that's where we end up. We are, after all, all Christians here, and are called to bear one another's burdens. I pray one day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this wouldn't be necessary. But we're not there yet. So here it is. Would you please, so as not to cause me to stumble, stop suggesting that it is wrong to drink alcohol in moderation, or that drinking alcohol in moderation somehow is a failure to love my brothers? Thanks ever so much."
Double, Bubble, Toil and Stumble, by RC Sproul Jr.

Oh my, I spent way too much time today on various Kinist blogs, where they are excited about rising white nationalism but upset about Trump consorting with Ben Carson and Nikki Haley. I also read up a bit on the truly weird pastorwash, in which RC Jr (pre Ashley Madison) was defrocked from his Presbyterian denomination, welcomed into the CREC (Hi Doug Wilson!) and recredentialed, or reanointed, or something, and then went back home where his original defrockers, evidently suffering from amnesia, gave him a nice job. Do I have that right? It was pretty hard to follow.

It's so odd that Calvinist types love to lecture each other on logical fallacies.

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1 hour ago, older than allosaurs said:

It's so odd that Calvinist types love to lecture each other on logical fallacies.

Eleventy!!!1!!11!

 

Quote

I don't like the idea of other people having to go about on pins and needles because of my weaknesses.

He gives himself up, right there; the entire letter is a demand that others enable his drinking.  He knows damn well he's not drinking in moderation and he wants you to NOT make him feel guilty about it, because, hey, we're all Christians here, and IF I STUMBLE, IT'S YOUR FAULT. It's blatantly manipulative, and a cynical leverage of the Christian directive to love and forgive. 

 

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On 17/12/2016 at 11:31 PM, snarkopolis said:

If he is an alcoholic, he has built up a tolerance. .15 might just be buzzed (behavior wise) for him.

IME with addicts the sad thing with alcohol is that this is only partially true. You become tolerant to the psychotropic effects of alcohol but not to its effects on balance, reflexes etc. This means that your brain becomes addicted and needs always bigger quantities but your body is stoned and unable to function properly after the usual amount  of alcoholic beverage.

14 hours ago, Howl said:

I noticed this in the charges:  Oper Veh w/ Alcohol Concentration Equivalent to .15 or More-- meaning that his alcohol content was at least .15, but could have been higher. 

I checked the charts because I am not familiar with US measurement units and legal limits. An ACE of .15 is already pretty high, now I have no idea of how much he may weigh but an average man would need more or less 6 or 7 standard drinks to get to that point. No way his wife didn't notice he was drunk and imho whomever lets anyone drive drunk (especially with kids on board!) is to blame. Or maybe, who knows, she was the one who alerted the police. 

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On 10/26/2016 at 1:31 PM, DomWackTroll said:

Lisa had a tubal pregnancy 27 years ago. But “God divinely transplanted her in the safety of my uterus, bringing Glory to His Name!”

I'm sure Spanky's already using this alleged experience in his harassment of pregnant women. 

 

 

 

On 10/26/2016 at 10:16 AM, DomWackTroll said:

What made me think they might already be married is that Lisa posted the same pic on Oct. 15 and when asked where they were replied, "PA." Would they admit to traveling alone together if they were not married? 

 

So, I'm about 98% sure the precious Lisa has been married FOUR times, divorced three. Her kids have three different maiden names (Hall, Broyles, Ringel). Interesting enough, only her son (Jordan) and son/possible step-son (Aaron) are friends with her on FB. None of her grown daughters are friends with her, yet they all have FB accounts. So, it appears that Lisa is no innocent lamb. 

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17 minutes ago, LydiaAnn said:

So, it appears that Lisa is no innocent lamb. 

I'd feel very badly for her if she were. 

We don't know a thing about her past. And I'm not in any way criticizing anybody on the ISB. I hold an unlimited-use pass, myself. 

But now I'm wondering if she's one of those unfortunates who's gone from rat to rat. I was pals with a gal who was twice-divorced from two bums and engaged to someone who didn't sound good to me. That didn't change the fact that she was a lovely, well-meaning, hopeful human who had survived a terrible upbringing and was trying very hard to make a good life  

Lisa's very beautiful and obviously trying to do the right thing, but I wouldn't want any part of her life. Lamb or ewe, poor thing. 

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On 15.12.2016 at 4:00 PM, FundieFarmer said:

Darby wears a headcovering, but I'm not sure her sisters do. RC has advocated wearing a headcovering, but it's not required at the church where he preaches, so you get an odd mix of women who do, and women who don't. 

I think she stopped wearing a headcovering. And she is regularly wearing pants. Seems like her husband isn't a strict as her former headship. I hope he isn't as abusive as his father-in-law.

 

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On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 0:32 AM, laPapessaGiovanna said:

IME with addicts the sad thing with alcohol is that this is only partially true. You become tolerant to the psychotropic effects of alcohol but not to its effects on balance, reflexes etc. This means that your brain becomes addicted and needs always bigger quantities but your body is stoned and unable to function properly after the usual amount  of alcoholic beverage. 

THAT. So much that.

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My soon-to-be-ex-husband, who is way down deep in the depths of active alcoholism, seems barely buzzed after a good half dozen beers when his BAC is well over the legal limit.

I don't know about Indiana specifically, but in many states, having a BAC of .15 or higher (that is, more than twice the legal limit) makes the DUI "aggravated."  Not all states use that exact word, but the penalties are usually higher if your BAC is more than .15.  Similarly, many states double the penalties if you are picked up for a DUI with a minor in the car with you.  If his BAC was over .15 AND minors were in the car with him, he could very well get jail time even if this is his first offense.  However, he could very well get off with NO jail time, too.  So much of it depends on the judge you're assigned, and the lawyer you hire.

High fives to EVERYONE here who has gone through the pain of removing oneself from a relationship with an active addict.  

ETA: while it seems unlikely that such a thing would be a secret given his profile, if for some reason he has prior DUIs in other jurisdictions, that can also up the charges.  For example, in my state once you have 3 or more DUIs, the legal limit for you becomes 0.02, not 0.08.

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I'm not going to wade back in there to get the wording just right, but over at the Faith and Heritage kinist blog, they knew all along that RC Jr. was weak-willed and had no moral standards because that's how it always is with people who adopt or marry across racial lines. We race traitors are just the type to drive drunk and baptize babies. (I'm not sure which is worse.)

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1 hour ago, older than allosaurs said:

I'm not going to wade back in there to get the wording just right, but over at the Faith and Heritage kinist blog, they knew all along that RC Jr. was weak-willed and had no moral standards because that's how it always is with people who adopt or marry across racial lines. We race traitors are just the type to drive drunk and baptize babies. (I'm not sure which is worse.)

I saw the opening to the kinist rabbit hole and decided it was infested with snakes, so it was a no go for me.  But yes, that twisted logic applied to  personality assessments sounds right for them. 

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On 12/18/2016 at 2:58 PM, Howl said:

Adultry isn't the issue, of course, but he claimed that he just went there out of curiosity; he has zip credibility for me.   The Spinderella site discusses a strategy that Junior admired and utilized, which he adopted from one of Bill Clinton's advisers:  get out ahead of the story by breaking the news yourself and thus control the narrative and spin the story to your advantage.  

Erma Gerd = Oh my God.  I use it sometimes when I get excited. 

Also back to the charges in Indiana.  I was looking at the charges on mycase.IN.gov.  There are two entries - one for the felony and one for the misdemeanor.   Linky here

Status for the felony is 12/05/2016, Pending

Status for the misdemeanor is 12/05/2016, Decided

Can anyone clarify?

Not a lawyer, but it looks like the state of Indiana dropped the original charges and then refiled with felony charges.

On mycase, it looks like it was the state that filed the motion to dismiss all charges re the "miscellaneous criminal (citation)" charges on 12/5 and the judge approved said dismissal on the same day.  That's the Decided case.

Also on 12/5, the state filed Felony 6 charges, with a hearing scheduled for February 2017.  That's the Pending case.

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5 hours ago, NeverAFundie said:

My soon-to-be-ex-husband, who is way down deep in the depths of active alcoholism, seems barely buzzed after a good half dozen beers when his BAC is well over the legal limit.

He is just good at faking it. With normal people (non addicted) the first thing you notice when someone is buzzed is that they are "different" than usual, it may be that they sillier, bolder, sadder, more loquacious or whatever but they aren't their usual selves. When they are stoned people often seem a bit (or a lot) demented and generally in a pitiful state but an observer (depending on context obviously) doesn't worry too much (until they try to do something dangerously stupid) because we know the reason for they are in that state, we know it's transitory and don't get easily scared. With alcoholics it's completely different because their brain has built up tolerance so when they drink a little amount their state of conscience and their mood (our first signal) doesn't appear to have changed, they don't look "off" but they already are at a physical level. In this way we already miss the first signal of something is happening. When they are drunk and feel a bit drunk (many more drinks later cause their brain wants a lot) they know how to fake sobriety and they tend  to be good at it and there are many reasons they can  mislead an observer. On a mood level they are more relatable than when they are sober (alcoholics suffer from cravings, there are meds for it) and if they look buzzed we are instinctively relieved they don't look completely wasted (if we know of their addition) or we don't worry because we think it's no big deal. On a physical level they are very familiar with alcohol's after effects so they move very carefully sticking to known predictable patterns and rhythm.  They would probably have no problem with walking on a line, but if you make them break their pattern or rhythm they are lost (ie you make them jump run and walk in short order). Long story short if I, a teetotaller, drink a big glass of my family's cabernet sauvignon (14º) I would feel and therefore look off, your soon-to-be-ex-husband would feel and look sober but his reflexes wouldn't be better than mine, he would just know how to adjust, meaning that nor me nor him would be fit for driving but while I would readily admit it (I'd feel more off than I am) he probably wouldn't (he doesn't feel off at all,  he is in a very familiar state, his favourite actually). But you, who know him well, know that something is very wrong (also because chances he stops at that are pretty slim), then there are many emotional, psychological,  relational mechanisms that may induce you into wanting to believe he isn't really drunk,  but that's a completely different matter. 

6 hours ago, NeverAFundie said:

High fives to EVERYONE here who has gone through the pain of removing oneself from a relationship with an active addict.  

Imho alcoholism is the worst, it's devious,  deceitful and the lines that mark the descent into addiction are so blurred that it's difficult  for people to timely notice when a socially acceptable behaviour becomes a no-going-back highway to waste one's (and everybody around) life. So kudos to you and to everybody who has the bravery to run away. You are strong and doing the best thing. 

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12 hours ago, pelerine said:

Not a lawyer, but it looks like the state of Indiana dropped the original charges and then refiled with felony charges.

On mycase, it looks like it was the state that filed the motion to dismiss all charges re the "miscellaneous criminal (citation)" charges on 12/5 and the judge approved said dismissal on the same day.  That's the Decided case.

Also on 12/5, the state filed Felony 6 charges, with a hearing scheduled for February 2017.  That's the Pending case.

@pelerine, Thanks for this clarification.  Awesome handle, by the way!  I had to look it up, because it sounded like a thing: "a woman's cape of lace or silk with pointed ends at the center front, popular in the 19th century"

OK, I'm officially a FB stalker/creeper.  On Lisa's fb, she posted pics of a night out celebrating a birthday for one of the kids, with a date of Dec. 3rd.  RC is definitely in those photos, meaning (if the photos were posted right away) he wasn't in jail.  With Pelerine's timeline, RC must have posted bond on the same day the charges were upgraded to a felony, so no jail time, right?

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@Howl Thanks! It's also the feminine form of the French word for pilgrim, which is what I was going for.  There's supposed to be a grave accent over the first e, but I didn't know if FJ could process diacriticals in usernames, so I left it off when I signed up.

(And because my brain is funny like that, I'm now curious if pelisse is related to pelerine etymologically.  *wanders off to find the etymological dictionary* Hmmm... looks like it's not.)

I think he's out on bond at the moment (looks like bond was set at $5000), although a Felony 6 conviction in Indiana carries a sentence of 6 months to 2.5 years, so if convicted he could face jail time.  I suppose it would have to be served in Indiana, as it's an Indiana case?

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11 minutes ago, refugee said:

This article says his blood alcohol was 0.175, and provides more details than I've seen elsewhere:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/rc-sproul-jr-was-driving-drunk-with-two-of-his-underage-children-drove-off-roadway-struck-curb-172318/

Reading these charges makes me feel almost ill; those poor boys must have been terrified.  

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13 minutes ago, Howl said:

Reading these charges makes me feel almost ill; those poor boys must have been terrified.  

Such a powerless feeling; how old are they?

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Lisa on FB: "I agree that God does give good gifts to His children, but His good gifts are also about assigning our trials and tribulations to develop our character and what defines us in this world."

Whew! Predestination really comes in handy sometimes, doesn't it? God "assigned" RC's DUI to "develop his character"! 

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On 12/22/2016 at 9:05 PM, laPapessaGiovanna said:

With alcoholics it's completely different because their brain has built up tolerance so when they drink a little amount their state of conscience and their mood (our first signal) doesn't appear to have changed, they don't look "off" but they already are at a physical level. In this way we already miss the first signal of something is happening. When they are drunk and feel a bit drunk (many more drinks later cause their brain wants a lot) they know how to fake sobriety and they tend  to be good at it and there are many reasons they can  mislead an observer. On a mood level they are more relatable than when they are sober (alcoholics suffer from cravings, there are meds for it) and if they look buzzed we are instinctively relieved they don't look completely wasted (if we know of their addition) or we don't worry because we think it's no big deal. On a physical level they are very familiar with alcohol's after effects so they move very carefully sticking to known predictable patterns and rhythm.  They would probably have no problem with walking on a line, but if you make them break their pattern or rhythm they are lost (ie you make them jump run and walk in short order).

This explains so much about my ex, who I didn't understand was an alcoholic until years later. Thank you for explaining it.

 

22 hours ago, refugee said:

Such a powerless feeling; how old are they?

I'm guessing Reilly is 11, and Donovan turned 7 a couple of days after the DUI.

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Too much time on my hands, so wondering:  How did Lisa (new, 2nd wife of two months) meet R.C. Jr?  She lives in Indiana, he was living in Florida, was he not?  Did they have a brief adult courtship?  Is it possible she did not know him well enough to realize there was a major alcohol problem?

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21 hours ago, Howl said:

Too much time on my hands, so wondering:  How did Lisa (new, 2nd wife of two months) meet R.C. Jr?  She lives in Indiana, he was living in Florida, was he not?  Did they have a brief adult courtship?  Is it possible she did not know him well enough to realize there was a major alcohol problem?

Gosh, I hope it wasn't via Ashley Madison....

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8 hours ago, LydiaAnn said:

Gosh, I hope it wasn't via Ashley Madison....

OK, you win the interwebs tonight!  Still laughing.....

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On 27.12.2016 at 5:33 PM, LydiaAnn said:

Gosh, I hope it wasn't via Ashley Madison....

You are hilarious!!

Isn't there something like a wholesome christian dating site for widows and widowers?!

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45 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

Godless, marxist college is okay for some people because Exceptions and Penis. 

 

Some extremists are more equal than others?

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