RC Sproul Jr, 2016 MERGED

[Howl]

7 hours ago, Jasmar said:

My ex-husband's alcohol abuse was what finally gave me the shove I needed to get out of a twenty-year abusive marriage.

So very glad for you that you found the courage to leave.  My mom left my very alcoholic dad after over 20 years of marriage; I can still remember how hard it was dealing with him, even though it all happened over 50 years ago.  

Reporting back from a cursory google search.  The Gibson Law Office wants us to know, first, that it's important to hire a good attorney when faced with a felony and they'll be glad to help.  So glad, in fact, that they show up as the very first entry in google when searching "Felony 6 in Indiana".  

According to the documents posted upthread, Junior is charged with two Level 6 Felony  offenses and two Class A misdemeanors.  According to the Gibson Law Office: 

Quote

Level 6 Felony: Range: 6 months to 2 1/2 years with an advisory sentence of 1 year
Level 6 Felony Convictions are Eligible for Misdemeanor Treatment

A Level 6 felony in Indiana can be reduced to a Class A misdemeanor in three ways: 1) at a sentencing hearing by a judge; 2) pursuant to a Plea Agreement; or 3) three years after a person completes his or her sentence by filing a petition with the court. Eligible offenses include theft, operating while intoxicated, drug possession, and maintaining a common nuisance. An experienced criminal attorney can review your case and determine the best strategy for keeping a felony off your record.

Legal Strategy: Avoiding Jail Time on Felony Charges in Indiana

If you are charged with a felony in Indiana, you need a criminal attorney who can develop a strategy that seeks to avoid jail time. Can you win at trial? Is your case eligible for misdemeanor treatment? Could any sentence be served on probation or house arrest?

Gibson Law Office attorneys have represented clients in more than 50 Indiana counties. We have offices in Lafayette and Fort Wayne and always offer a free initial consultation. If you are charged with a felony, contact us today for a free consultation. Having an experienced attorney early in the case can often make a big difference in the outcome. 

Any Degreed Law Professionals™ know if he would have been arrested at the traffic stop?

[Soulhuntress]

15 hours ago, Howl said:

Why wasn't SHE driving when he was obviously drunk behind the wheel? The charge dates are 11/29.   @LydiaAnn, it's sad to look at those pictures of the boys dated Nov. 29th and know what is to come later in the day.

The first two charges are felonies--this is some extremely serious sh*t.  The first is child endangerment and the second is driving drunk with kid(s) in the car.  He is definitely going to be getting some counseling and it won't be faux church B.S.  There will be A.A. or similar and various other requirements, plus an ignition breathalyzer and likely an ankle alcohol monitor for starters.  Straight DUI/DWI are extremely costly.  (This is based on a stepdaughter, who had two.  DUI #2 finally sorted her out, but she was probably $15,000 in the hole by the time it was all over.)  My question is, What happens to the kids? Might they have to go live with grandma and grandpa until this is over?

 Jeeze, I feel sorry for the new wife.  Guess the honeymoon is so completely, totally over.  Not too late to get an annulment, just sayin'.  

Depends on how Indiana handles DWI's and how many he had.  AA is not court mandated nor is counseling in Indiana but the judge can always order it to be so.   

[LydiaAnn]

On 12/12/2016 at 10:39 PM, Soulhuntress said:

Sounds like he is getting into a secular job.   And Reno is an interesting choice.

 

LOL!  Working for the family industries must pay well.

 

7 minutes ago, Soulhuntress said:

Depends on how Indiana handles DWI's and how many he had.  AA is not court mandated nor is counseling in Indiana but the judge can always order it to be so.   

 

3 hours ago, Howl said:

So very glad for you that you found the courage to leave.  My mom left my very alcoholic dad after over 20 years of marriage; I can still remember how hard it was dealing with him, even though it all happened over 50 years ago.  

Reporting back from a cursory google search.  The Gibson Law Office wants us to know, first, that it's important to hire a good attorney when faced with a felony and they'll be glad to help.  So glad, in fact, that they show up as the very first entry in google when searching "Felony 6 in Indiana".  

According to the documents posted upthread, Junior is charged with two Level 6 Felony  offenses and two Class A misdemeanors.  According to the Gibson Law Office: 

Any Degreed Law Professionals™ know if he would have been arrested at the traffic stop?

The case I found was linked to another case number (same offense and date, why it got a new case number, who knows), but he was arrested and bailed out. $5000 bail. Sounds like the poor kids had to watch all that.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Soulhuntress said:

Depends on how Indiana handles DWI's and how many he had.  AA is not court mandated nor is counseling in Indiana but the judge can always order it to be so.   

There are other, and probably more effective, methods of treatment for alcohol abuse.

::Small voice:: I'm not a big fan of AA.  It works for some people but it is not a miracle cure and is quite controversial.  I think of it as the equivalent of reporting animal abuse to PETA. 

[hoipolloi]

41 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

::Small voice:: I'm not a big fan of AA.  It works for some people but it is not a miracle cure and is quite controversial.  I think of it as the equivalent of reporting animal abuse to PETA. 

While there's no doubt that AA has worked for many people (one of them being a good friend of ours), it is NOT a universal cure and should NOT be required as a standalone or primary approach. AA's problems have been documented and they are not trivial. IMO, AA may be helpful in conjunction with other, clinical measures by bona fide providers.

Like many addicts, Spanky's best chance for recovery is a combination of resources, such as rehab facilities or clinics plus therapy and, most of all, hard work by Spanky himself to deal with it. He needs to have strict boundaries so that he doesn't endanger others or himself, and he needs to work with his therapists & other clinicians. For a "normal" addict (if there is one), this is difficult. For someone like Spanky, who's hard-wired in patriarchy, this may be well nigh impossible.

I am speaking here as the DIL of two 80-somethings whose lives were taken away for a year or more when a drunk smashed into their parked vehicle (at 11:30 AM on a weekday), sending FIL into the windshield face first after he caromed off the steering wheel and throwing MIL out of the vehicle only to come to rest under it after it had spun around once. Astoundingly, she had only slight physical injuries. That they both survived (after MONTHS of hospitalization & rehab) and returned home to live independent lives is nothing short of a miracle.

Drunken drivers are criminals of the worst sort. 

 

 

[Howl]

Not being a fan of AA is fine and NOT HERETICAL --  it's what came to mind as a first-line treatment, which shows how incredibly dated I am!  As a child of an alcoholic, I attended Al-Anon meetings and some meetings for Adult Children of Alcoholics in my 30s.  I'm 68 now.  It was very useful and eye opening for me and was a time of growth for sure, but eventually I outgrew the need for either after 3 years or so.   Even though Al-Anon claimed at the time that a person would revert to enabling behavior if you weren't working the program, I knew this to be untrue for me then and untrue now.  

Anyway, I was thinking this whole thing over, and the very definition of a woman's role in patriarchy is that of enabler.  So here's a woman (Junior's brand new wife of a month or so), bound to a role of wifely doormat helpmeet and submissive little mouse.   There's every possibility that she would, based on Junior's past actions, be subjected to "domestic discipline" physical abuse should she speak out about his addiction to alcohol or draw some lines in the sand.  I just don't see this ending (or continuing) well for her.  

Hoping that the Spankster has his feet held to the fire by the courts, especially since he is facing felony charges and not just the misdemeanor DUI and children were involved. 

[snarkopolis]

17 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

I note that one of the charges involves a .15+ blood alcohol level. In my state that's nearly twice the legal limit (.08 %). He was hammered, not tipsy.

I have a lot of sympathy for people trying to cope with alcoholism, though I'm not convinced a sober R.C. Jr. would be a huge improvement, except on the highway. I hope this is his true wake-up call.

If he is an alcoholic, he has built up a tolerance. .15 might just be buzzed (behavior wise) for him.

[Marian the Librarian]

James (of James and Stacy) McDonald has weighed in on his FB page:

Quote

Again reminded how one poor decision can inflict catastrophic devastation to a man's family, vocation, and influence. This is not a time for rejoicing, this is not a time for gossip, it is a time for prayer. Let us all pray for those in such a condition, while we spur one another on to love and good works, and also considering our own weaknesses - for we can likewise easily fall when we take our focus off that which really matters.

Followed by much backing-and-forthing, mixed with a bit of confusion from those who hadn't heard the news, and an "Amen" from James Pennington.

https://www.facebook.com/james.mcdonald1?fref=ts

 

[jojo]

On 12/13/2016 at 9:31 AM, DomWackTroll said:

Ligonier doesn't even seem to be moderating comments under their FB post about it. It's like they just DGAF anymore. 

The commenters are confused, because didn't he already "pay" for the Ashley Madison thing? 

"Ann Marie" has been most helpful in getting the truth out.

[Howl]

7 hours ago, jojo said:

"Ann Marie" has been most helpful in getting the truth out.

No kidding.  She simply provided the direct link to the charges numerous times, without other comment.  Link to the charges on mycase.IN.gov here. 

I noticed this in the charges:  Oper Veh w/ Alcohol Concentration Equivalent to .15 or More-- meaning that his alcohol content was at least .15, but could have been higher. 

Looking at those comments on Ligonier Ministries' facebook page, it's easy to see how predators of all kinds can thrive in a fundamentalist environment: we're all sinners, don't gossip, don't judge, don't pry into someone's personal bidness, don't think ill of someone, it's in God's hands, it's up to God, God is in charge and working for good, all sin is the same, all sin is forgiven if you just ask so who are we to judge, Satan is at work,  he's so stressed from the death of his wife, the armor of every warrior has some stains and dents, ad infinitum.  A few people pointed out that, ahem, ya gotta repent to be forgiven.    Of course, some of this is great advice for life in general; I'm not saying it's not, but the element of denial and pretending that everything is OK and everyone gets a pass on bad behavior because god shouldn't be overlooked.  RC got caught on Ashley Madison, not EHarmoney or Christian Mingle. He's been defrocked. His over indulgence with alcohol is legendary. 

 

 

[DomWackTroll]

12 hours ago, Marian the Librarian said:

this is not a time for gossip

And yet he finds a "nice" way to, um, gossip. James, you didn't have to say anything. Playing little blind item games on your Facebook page in the guise of "teaching" doesn't make it any less gossipy. 

ETA: The people behind the Spinderella Sproul blog can barely contain their glee. “From the records it appears that RC Sproul Jr may have remained in jail for up to a week after his arrest awaiting a bail hearing (although this isn't entirely clear from the court record). On December 7 RC Sproul Jr posted a $5,000 bond. His next court hearing is February 2, 2017.”

https://rc-sproul-jr.blogspot.com/2016/12/rc-sproul-jr-charged-with-drunk-driving.html

 

[MamaJunebug]

37 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

And yet he finds a "nice" way to, um, gossip. James, you didn't have to say anything. Playing little blind item games on your Facebook page in the guise of "teaching" doesn't make it any less gossipy. 

ETA: The people behind the Spinderella Sproul blog can barely contain their glee. “From the records it appears that RC Sproul Jr may have remained in jail for up to a week after his arrest awaiting a bail hearing (although this isn't entirely clear from the court record). On December 7 RC Sproul Jr posted a $5,000 bond. His next court hearing is February 2, 2017.”

https://rc-sproul-jr.blogspot.com/2016/12/rc-sproul-jr-charged-with-drunk-driving.html

 

DWT, it is impossible for me to love you more. 

Jamesy-poo of the Uncertain Divinity Degree, this is not "one poor decision" scenario in the life of an otherwise temperate and self-denying man. This is the logical, inescapable result of a lifetime of ....very messed-up living.  From RC, Sr., and Mrs. RC, Sr., all the way down. 

I wonder as I wander what Lisa Sproul is thinking, about now. 

[DomWackTroll]

14 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Jamesy-poo of the Uncertain Divinity Degree, this is not "one poor decision" scenario in the life of an otherwise temperate and self-denying man.

Exactly. At Spinderella Sproul, they've been trying to warn people about Spanky's alcohol abuse since 2005. Eleven long years. One almost can't blame them for the smug, self-congratulatory tone of their post. 

[Palimpsest]

31 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

I wonder as I wander what Lisa Sproul is thinking, about now. 

Divorce?

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

The people behind the Spinderella Sproul blog

Do we know who they are?  Former St. Peter's parishioners perhaps.

[hoipolloi]

This comment from Spinderella Sproul is gut-wrenching:

Quote

As sad as this is, it isn't surprising. In 2005, I was 13 years old and my family had just joined R.C. Jr's church in Virginia, Saint Peter Presbyterian Church. One time, his daughter invited me to the Sproul house for a sleepover. She and R.C. came to pick me up in his car. The Sprouls lived in an extremely rural town called Mendota. The road to Mendota was very long and wound sharply through thick woods. R.C. didn't want to slow down enough to safely take the corners. He instead cut them, crossing into the opposite lane right on the extreme point of blind curves. It was apparently his routine to engage in this life-threatening behavior during every commute to and out of Mendota. He had two children in the car, and we could have been caught in a head-on collision at any time. When I got home, I told my dad what R.C. had done, and he forbade all of us, his kids, to ride with him ever again. He's already a menace on the road when sober. I'm astonished he hasn't killed someone already.

 

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

James, you didn't have to say anything. Playing little blind item games on your Facebook page in the guise of "teaching" doesn't make it any less gossipy. 

James and Stacy McDonald are the king & queen of vague-booking.

[Soulhuntress]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

 This is the logical, inescapable result of a lifetime of ....very messed-up living.  From RC, Sr., and Mrs. RC, Sr., all the way down. 

I wonder as I wander what Lisa Sproul is thinking, about now. 

The first part kind of makes me wonder about Mama and Daddy Sproul having a family history of alcoholism.    Or Spanky was raised like Franky Schaeffer but with less self control.

I hope Lisa Sproul has a support system.  Really really do.

[Howl]

Erma Gerd!  Spinderella Sproul is an entire wonderful rabbit hole, but leading to other rabbit holes opening on to a veritable warren of holes, tunnels, drop chutes, dark alleys, snares, leg traps, even a detour to Jen Epstien/Peter Kershaw and a little Doug Wilson thrown in.    Don't know how I missed out on all the related Sprouliness since I came to FJ, including the aptly named litigious Sproul-in-law, Tim Dick. 

The most interesting part was the enabling of Spanky by giving him paid "leave" while he was making six figures and then hiring him back -- kind of a fake hand slap for being naughty on Ashley Madison.  Who here believes that Spanky didn't inhale indulge on Ashley Madison?  Bueller?  BUELLER?

 

[Soulhuntress]

12 minutes ago, Howl said:

Erma Gerd!  Spinderella Sproul is an entire wonderful rabbit hole, but leading to other rabbit holes opening on to a veritable warren of holes, tunnels, drop chutes, dark alleys, snares, leg traps, even a detour to Jen Epstien/Peter Kershaw and a little Doug Wilson thrown in.    Don't know how I missed out on all the related Sprouliness since I came to FJ, including the aptly named litigious Sproul-in-law, Tim Dick. 

The most interesting part was the enabling of Spanky by giving him paid "leave" while he was making six figures and then hiring him back -- kind of a fake hand slap for being naughty on Ashley Madison.  Who here believes that Spanky didn't inhale indulge on Ashley Madison?  Bueller?  BUELLER?

 

Ok Papa Sproul was a big big part of the disaster that is Spanky.  He enabled him and supported him in life and faith and just am speechless.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

22 minutes ago, Soulhuntress said:

The first part kind of makes me wonder about Mama and Daddy Sproul having a family history of alcoholism.    Or Spanky was raised like Franky Schaeffer but with less self control.

I hope Lisa Sproul has a support system.  Really really do.

Per Senior's own words, although he does not hold to the opinion that it is wrong for Christians to drink, he himself does not. 

[DomWackTroll]

19 minutes ago, Soulhuntress said:

Ok Papa Sproul was a big big part of the disaster that is Spanky.  He enabled him and supported him in life and faith and just am speechless.

It's pretty well known that the family nickname for RC Jr. is "Precious." Sure, it makes me want to barf, but beyond that, it seems to deny the Calvinistic concept of utter depravity. 

[Palimpsest]

41 minutes ago, Howl said:

Who here believes that Spanky didn't inhale indulge on Ashley Madison?  Bueller?  BUELLER?

Actually, I personally don't really five a rat's ass if he did.  He was a widower at the time.  Conduct unbecoming in a minister, to be sure, but eh. 

 

49 minutes ago, Howl said:

Erma Gerd!  

Sorry, I'm not clicking on all cylinders today.  Erma Gerd was the person who called ExGay Greg's radio show.  Is there a connection to Spanky or do you mean that Spinderella Sproul is a fantastic rabbit hole?

 

17 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

It's pretty well known that the family nickname for RC Jr. is "Precious." Sure, it makes me want to barf, but beyond that, it seems to deny the Calvinistic concept of utter depravity. 

No, seriously?  "Precious!" 

[DomWackTroll]

16 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

No, seriously?  "Precious!" 

Here’s the obsessive Frank Vance mocking him with the nickname: “As a father of several sons myself I've really tried to be sypathetic to Dr. Sproul over the shame and humiliation that ‘Precious’ has brought on his family, especially on his father.” 

http://vancetribe.blogspot.com/2006/08/rc-sproul-jr-to-speak-at-ligonier.html

 

[hoipolloi]

35 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

It's pretty well known that the family nickname for RC Jr. is "Precious." Sure, it makes me want to barf, but beyond that, it seems to deny the Calvinistic concept of utter depravity. 

Are Calvinists themselves supposed to be Calvinistic?

And here I thought Calvinists only expected OTHERS to obey the tenets of Calvinism!

[Howl]

42 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Actually, I personally don't really five a rat's ass if he did.  He was a widower at the time.  Conduct unbecoming in a minister, to be sure, but eh. 

Adultry isn't the issue, of course, but he claimed that he just went there out of curiosity; he has zip credibility for me.   The Spinderella site discusses a strategy that Junior admired and utilized, which he adopted from one of Bill Clinton's advisers:  get out ahead of the story by breaking the news yourself and thus control the narrative and spin the story to your advantage.  

Erma Gerd = Oh my God.  I use it sometimes when I get excited. 

Also back to the charges in Indiana.  I was looking at the charges on mycase.IN.gov.  There are two entries - one for the felony and one for the misdemeanor.   Linky here. 

Status for the felony is 12/05/2016, Pending

Status for the misdemeanor is 12/05/2016, Decided

Can anyone clarify?

[MamaJunebug]

Smoley hokes, Lisa was in the car with him and the boys on Nov. 29. At least long enuf to take his photo behind the wheel. 

Oh my my my. What a way to start a marriage.

And Lisa notes that 5 years ago, Denise S entered heavenly rest, free of disease and pain ... and dare we add, free of abuse. RIP, ma'am.