Questions for a future son-in-law

[Showtunesgirl]

22 minutes ago, PopRox said:

I couldn't even appreciate the snark-quality of the questions, because I was too busy being horrified that these people are CHOOSING THEIR DAUGHTERS husband-- and I quote-- "without any input from her."

It was bad enough she had to endure that creepy-ass "covenant ceremony" with her dad, now she has no say whatsoever in choosing the person to whom she will be committed FOR LIFE.

I want to throw up.

Technically, she didn't have to say yes to the proposal...

[December]

Reading this genuinely gave me the creeps. Honestly, it reads like a weird fundie fanfic more than a real article. Not only the many boundary-crossing questions (masturbation habits?!) but just the whole idea of an e-survey to select a spouse on behalf of their daughter. Because as we all know, nobody lies on the internet.

In the comments, they claim they'll be answering one commenter's questions in another post this week... can't even imagine what that'll look like. 

[Nutella Ace]

10 hours ago, Lurky said:

Hang on, has she even met him? 

thelongwaytogo.com/haley-reagan-unconventional-love-story/

There's a video here of the couple discussing their "story"... seems like they had met on the internet in their mid-teens and have since worked together at some writing community and spent time together in person but only in "group settings".  Still seems like a bizarre path to engagement to me, but at least they had met and had some mutual interest.

[RosyDaisy]

Damn! The only things my conservative Christian dad wanted were hardworking, decent, non-abusive husbands for me and my sister.

[Chocolatedefrauded]

I don't even want to know my husband's masturbation habits & we'be been happily married for many years. His body, he can do what he wants with it.

[Lurky]

So they know each other from online (but her family has a rule about not talking to guys online, and they broke those rules left, right and centre, which is good, in this context), and have met for 3 days, though they were never alone. 

Listening to them talk about how he helped her move from her parents' views on music, literature, sports, schooling etc - I'm really REALLY surprised the parents put this on the site, because while this seems a good thing to me, it's a story about breaking control.  And then Father Long found out they were talking and banned her - but she kept comparing all the men she was thrown at as courtship prospects * to him, and turning them down.

But I can't get excited it's a #FreeHaley situation, because he's still been contributing to the site for years, and got involved with this courtship bullshittery, and asked her parents if he could marry her before talking to her online.  And I live my life online, and tons of my friends have met online, but if any of my friends wanted to marry someone after meeting them for 3 days in group settings, I'd be definitely saying "take it slower".

At least she didn't have to marry the dude her parents had picked. 

I'm finding it completely hilarious that the parents, and Reagan, wanted it all to be a surprise for Haley, that she would be kept in complete ignorance, but she'd picked up things going on, and the "surprise" proposal was no surprise at all (the "oh, we need to check your ring size for your sister's ring" bullshittery)

*I can't believe she was being told of possible Courtship boys when she was 17 and 18.  I mean, I guess she was allowed to say no...

[turquoise]

Theoretically she could have said no...but what are the chances that she would actually have felt comfortable saying no, and not faced any negative reactions for it? My guess would  be slim to none.

A questionnaire like that from parents is almost guaranteed to scare off any reasonable man and attract someone who is batshit crazy. I hope I am wrong and things turn out okay for Haley.

[nickelodeon]

They forgot the important question, "When would it be most appropriate to cheat on our daughter and kill her dog?"

[polecat]

I was cracking up through most of those questions imagining how my boys would be answering them -- "What? You don't hit kids! And people should wear whatever they want to wear!" And then I got to the last couple and noped on out.

This poor girl is going to end up with some completely abusive, overbearing dick dribble all because of her parents. 

[Howl]

16 hours ago, Koala said:

Well, "the one" finally applied.  I won't go into details, but suffice to say, the marriage ended in a twist so bizarre that it blew even my mind.  Funny that, her father "vetted" him, and he turned out to be crazier than a shit house rat.

Well exactly.  @Koala, I'm desperate for delicious details, but I'll respect the privacy of this woman, but it makes me think there should be additional questions for the future husband's application: 

Are you crazier than a shit house rat?

Are you a micro-managing, controlling emotional abuser? 

What are your views about marital rape disguised as sex on demand?

What are your views about physical abuse disguised as "corrective" punishment of your wife?

Are you desperate for heterosexual marriage to erase your same sex attractions?

Do you have any possible way to support your future spouse and bazillion offspring?

Really, the list can go on and on and on.  The boy won't be able to answer most of these questions because nothing in his limited life experience would encourage thoughtful introspection, as opposed to hidden shame and guilt over normal emotional life.  

ETA: That said, this couple has a few things going for them:  

Shared interest in writing

Some kind of mutual attraction

Although I'm not down with their beliefs at all, they do have a series of ground rules about what a marriage should be and what their religious beliefs are.  

Sadly, I'm assuming they will both beat the crap out of their kids Pearl style, based on the parent's questions about corporal punishment, and how early it should start.  

 

 

 

 

[librarianjojo]

Methinks Cheryl has been in edit mode. I was showing this post to a co-worker this morning and it looks like the section with the questions about masturbation and pornography has been removed. Perhaps Cheryl found this thread and began to prune the list. Dammit, I wish I'd saved that version of the Google doc.

 

I too look forward to her response to the top comment. 

[Four is Enough]

I. Can't. Even.

First of all, these creepy ass covenant ceremonies, purity rings, etc. Why do they tie it all to Daddy? I mean....they should, if they want to do that stuff, make their promises to God...  daddy in the middle just muddies the water for me.

[Koala]

Cheryl definitely reads here.  In fact, she had her daughter (you know, the one who didn't fit into her perfect family with cheating, dog killing Terry) come here to defend her.  Of course, I think Cheryl eventually admitted to cheating too, so now you have 2 cheaters thinking that they make fine candidates to arrange marriages for their daughters.  

It doesn't surprise me that she cleaned up the list.  Fundies are masters at covering their shit.  If they delete it, it never happened.

There's never a "Well gee, maybe I shouldn't be asking my daughter's future husband how often he masturbates."  Nope.  Just delete it, and it never happened.

At any rate, she did respond to the question about what the fuck they are thinking.  Here are the highlights:

-Haley decided to be betrothed instead of following the courtship model.  

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She did not want to even know that a guy was interested in her until after her daddy and I had already vetted him and found him to be the man of God’s choosing for her. 

If she'd been my daughter, I'd have told her that if she wasn't fit to evaluate potential husbands, then she wasn't fit to get married.  That's just me, though.

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You stated the process of leaving and cleaving begins during engagement. We disagree. “Leave and cleave” begins when Terry transfers his God-ordained authority over our daughter to her husband–at the altar on their wedding day. Until that moment she remains under the authority and protection of her father.

As far as our daughter’s ability to leave and cleave after the wedding, we have no concerns about this at all. She understands a wife’s priorities and knows that her marriage is to be an exclusive relationship and her loyalties lie with her husband. We have no intention of meddling or interfering in their business. We did discuss these topics with Reagan as well.

Fun!  She never has to adult at all.  First Daddy makes decisions for her, and then he picks another guy to make decisions for her.  Sounds like a legitimate plan.

I also seriously doubt that they will "mind their own business" if they disagree with the married couple.  The tip off?  This question in the "Relationships After Marriage" category:

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Same question about your in-laws. Do you see them as a type of authority?

Counselors?

Accountability?

Or should they stay out of your business?

I am betting "stay the hell out of my business" wasn't the answer they were looking for.  No one is going to go from picking a husband for someone, to minding their own business.  Terry's going to keep his foot in the door.

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It is true that after Reagan thoroughly answered all those questions (and at times as further discussion ensued, he elaborated on his answers as well), we do know him very well. Kind of like…family. 

Hey, Cheryl?  Normal families don't have in-laws who discuss their son-in-law's porn and masturbation habits with him.  

When it was pointed out to Cheryl that it would probably be pretty easy to figure out what the "correct" answers to these questions are & lie, she acted totally baffled by the idea that a young man wanting to marry some unsuspecting girl would lie.  The horrors!

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My first thought here was, why would he lie, considering he was seeking God’s perfect will in this matter? 

Umm, perhaps because sometimes men seeking to prey on innocent women will select someone just like your daughter?  

She has absolutely no power in her own life, and she has a scarily childlike mentality.  "Don't even tell me that a man wants to marry me until Daddy's decided he's the one."  

She just floats from being under one man's authority to the next.  She's a perfect victim.  

The fact that the pair of you think an online survey is an appropriate means to "vet" potential suitors makes her an even more likely target.

Good god.

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There were to be “five green lights”, as Reagan put it, in determining God’s will in this matter. That meant that all four parents plus Reagan had to have perfect peace about the union before proceeding to the next step.

There's a "green light" missing there somewhere.  Trying to think who it is.  

Oh yeah, HALEY!

Let me just tell you, this whole thing with infantilizing women is bullshit.  It is not fun for them when it all hits the fan and they have to figure out how to adult at 40.

[refugee]

3 hours ago, Lurky said:

*I can't believe she was being told of possible Courtship boys when she was 17 and 18.  I mean, I guess she was allowed to say no...

Yup. The earlier you can get 'em married, the sooner they can start adding to the Dynasty. Oddly enough, that thinking didn't seem to work out for the Botkin daughters.

It's what makes a girl an "old maid" when she passes, say, 21. "Old maid" syndrome, I should think, would make a daughter more tractable to wacky husband-finding techniques. Like Vaughn Olman's. Or this.

The mom said something about combing the internet for ideas as they put their list together. How many of these checklists are floating around, anyhow? I had only heard of James and Stacy McDonalds', before this.

[VooDooChild]

Dear Fundie Parents (I use that term loosely),

Yes, your children are an extension of you.  However, they are also autonomous beings.  That means they can make their own age appropriate decisions (specifically those old enough to marry), and you do not possess ownership of them.  They are not animals.  They are humans and deserve the same respect that you demand of others for yourself.  Maybe you jackasses can extend them the same courtesy.

Fuck you and I pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster you are sorely disappointed you wasted your life on this BS when you die and find nothing.

Sincerely,

Bite Me

[FundieWatcher]

This is not exactly on topic. I'm a member of this forum for people who take those standardized tests for college credit. (AP, CLEP, DSST, UExcel, etc..) There is pretty much a universal dislike for College Plus- generally considered way overpriced, bizzare and not necessary. But there was a CP defender who said it is basically a matchmaking place. People on the board were massively confused. Seems like they have just now made the College Plus= evangelical connection. The CP defender basically said it was good place for non traditional college students to meet  other college students. The other board members are like "get a job waiting tables, don't spend 3K a year on CP..." Basically seems CP has become something of a fundie lite dating site. 

On an even less related note, there is a Jewish equivalent to College Plus- it is Tor College Credits. They use the same three colleges CP does. But they have their own tests for credit. (Only their prices are actually reasonable)

[nokidsmom]

7 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Damn! The only things my conservative Christian dad wanted were hardworking, decent, non-abusive husbands for me and my sister.

And furthermore I would like to bet your dad would appreciate that same husbands know their own minds and have healthy personal boundaries. Can you imagine any such man be willing to answer these kind of intrusive questions.  Someone like this should rightfully be insulted and run for the hills.  No wonder it would attract the batshit ones, the normal ones would say  "i'm outta here".

[fundiefan]

Apparently, Cheryl & her daughters went to the True Woman's conference that Terri Maxwell went to. They were all Crying Out together!

And I have to ask, why is it every fundie family on the freaking planet becomes a 'musical group' with zero training? Captn Bret and his awful voice & kids are a 'music ministry', the Duggars, Maxwells, Rodrigueses, Wissmans, the Bayleats...(Seppi friends)...Bontrangers...and  now the Long Family Singers.

I know music is one of the very few godly skills a perfectly godly warrior for Christ can be taught, but the parents clearly use it to make money. Whether there is talent there or not and I gotta' say, in most cases, it's not there. In most cases, actually, it's quite painful.

[Lurky]

Like everyone else, the idea of Cheryl and her husband being the right people to choose a partner is bizarre.  I guess they could be working on the grounds of "If I pick someone NOT like my own cheating, abusive partner, it could work"?

I was having a look at Reagan's website, and he uses a LOT of words, and does that whole "let me tell you what marriage means" which I always find interesting from a single young person...   And of course marriage is only for one man and one woman, and did you know this?

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We should not expect non-Christians to understand or acknowledge this reality. As a result, they may enter into a same-sex union, or a union of more than two individuals. They may “marry” for “love” or to win tickets to a Rugby game. They may intend to do so for a few months or several years.

But then I looked at Haley's blog, and here's her view on a car crash she and her sister were in:

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We all agree that what had happened to us was a direct attack from Satan, but God had intervened and had an army of angels all around us.

.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

Umm, perhaps because sometimes men seeking to prey on innocent women will select someone just like your daughter?  

Re: bolded. You know, Cheryl - your daughter who has a pair of fucking tools for parents.

[Marian the Librarian]

This reminds me of the "marriage investigation process" undertaken by Ben and Audri Botkin, and bloviated upon at great and solemn length by Geoff on their Western Conservatory website. Because God forbid there should be so much as one scintilla of spontaneity or fun, or independent thought on the part of the young'uns,  when it comes to all things connubial.

Take it from one who knows: meddling parents/in-laws who can't back the hell off and mind their own damn business are the kiss of death for a marriage.

[Gobsmacked]

18 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

The question "Are pants ever acceptable?" sure leaves a lot to implication.

Pants in the UK are underwear. A problem if the parents don't think them acceptable.

sarcasm......,

[FundieWatcher]

This guy can't really give an answer to some of the questions. He has never been married or lived with a significant other. How is he suppose to know how he will handle certain situations? It is all theoretical. 

[childerowland]

I'd be mortified if I was Reagan, knowing that the Internet was now aware that I had discussed my masturbatory habits (or lack thereof) with my prospective in-laws. Maybe the masturbation/porn questions were removed at his request...

[Lurky]

I am still boggling at the Longs' assumption that he was answering truly, rather than giving the "right" answers...  Cheryl answers that here, but it seems like she didn't even listen to the Reagan-Haley video.  She says:

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Through the way he conducted himself during every encounter we’ve ever had with him, Reagan demonstrated that he is a godly man of noble character and we had no doubt that his motives were pure and sincere. During their friendship, he did absolutely nothing to emotionally defraud our daughter.

But in the video, they talk about how they started off talking in private messages on the writing site, even though he knew she wasn't allowed to talk to men privately, and as someone who was helping run the site, he wasn't allowed to have that kind of relationship with the young people on the site.  They both said that this is why they stopped interacting the first time - and Patriarch Long knew that, as he banned Haley from talking to him!

And I laughed out loud at this:

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One last point here (you inquired  about this at the end of your comment), Reagan answered each of the questions thoroughly and honestly. How do we know this? Well…because he knows our family so well, he knew all the “correct answers”. But rather than telling us what we wanted to hear, (and answering the questions “to a ‘T'”) he explained his beliefs, even when they differed from ours.

The logic is that in some things, he disagreed and explained why, so that must mean that when he didn't disagree, he was telling the truth.  I don't understand that logic at all!

But thinking about it, wow, they seem pretty lazy.  They could have started off by reading his blog, and getting a feeling for a lot of the stuff in their questionnaire there, but no, make him do all the work.  (And the fact that "why do you want to marry our daughter is the ninth section!!).  And compare and contrast their reaction (a questionnaire with a thousand and eleventy Qs, versus his parents' response:

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Though his parents barely knew Haley, they came to the conclusion that they trusted their son enough to make a wise decision.