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Jill, Derick, Israel: Back In Normal Murica (For Now) - Part 20


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PennySycamore

@HerNameIsBuffy, you asked about when people would learn grammar and punctuation.  We learned it in Mrs Scott's 8th grade English class and college freshman English.  We spent lots of time in Mrs Scott's class diagramming sentences which I admit that I enjoyed.  Freshman English used to be notorious for flunking students for sentence fragments and misplaced commas.

 

I've got a copy of The Elements of Grammar around here someplace.  I need to find it and review because I've forgotten quite a bit after more than 40 years.

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

My mother was horrified recently that none of her adult children knew what a gerund is. I like language and grammar and proper usage, but I had to look up the word gerund. I guess most of my teachers didn't focus on terminology?

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paulypepper
37 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

My mother was horrified recently that none of her adult children knew what a gerund is. I like language and grammar and proper usage, but I had to look up the word gerund. I guess most of my teachers didn't focus on terminology?

Dayum I haven't heard that term in years! and to be honest I didn't remember what it was. I had most of my grammar teachings back in the 5th grade which was too many years ago to count...hehehe

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

@paulypepper, I had a few older teachers in grade school who made sure we diagrammed sentences. (I don't think the younger teachers thought it was worthwhile.) We also covered some grammar in 10th grade English. I think in most of my other grades, grammar mistakes would be pointed out, but we didn't focus on grammar and usage specifically. (And my mom is pretty "old school". :my_biggrin: )

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VineHeart137
1 hour ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

Can you remind me of exactly what happened? Was it a catfight? How does it relate to them being sheltered? My memory is a little fuzzy at the moment 

Someone correct any errors- From what I can recall, back when they had bunk beds, Jessa had a bottom bunk and Jana had the top and Jessa would always be kicking the bunk with Jana in it. When Jana complained to her parents, instead of disciplining Jessa they told Jana to give Jessa something that Jana loved (I don't remember if they specifically told her to give up the jewelry box). I guess the idea was Jessa would end up feeling bad/guilty and would then leave Jana alone.

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nastyhobbitses
3 hours ago, patsymae said:

 

AAAAAA Taxi service

I remember getting drunk while watching the Olympics Parade of Nations a few years back and proclaiming to my friends that I was going to found a country called AAAAAAAAAAAAAA and make its name in Mandarin Chinese the character for "one" (一) so my country could be first in line no matter who was hosting.

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actuallyjessica
Someone correct any errors- From what I can recall, back when they had bunk beds, Jessa had a bottom bunk and Jana had the top and Jessa would always be kicking the bunk with Jana in it. When Jana complained to her parents, instead of disciplining Jessa they told Jana to give Jessa something that Jana loved (I don't remember if they specifically told her to give up the jewelry box). I guess the idea was Jessa would end up feeling bad/guilty and would then leave Jana alone.

Yes, that is correct. The bit I was referring to was many years later when Jana spoke of the incident she broke down as if it happened just yesterday.
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My mother was horrified recently that none of her adult children knew what a gerund is. I like language and grammar and proper usage, but I had to look up the word gerund. I guess most of my teachers didn't focus on terminology?


Almost all the grammatical terms I know are in French, so on the rare occasions I talk about English grammar I need to mentally translate.

English is my first language but I learnt French in school starting in grade 1, so I learnt terms for things like tenses, whereas much more of my English grammar was picked up intuitively through reading. I'm not sure why we weren't taught this kind of thing in school; I do remember some English grammar lessons at school, but far less than we got for French, with the end result being that after twelve years of education I could write an essay in English but not tell you anything about the grammar, and I could rattle off French grammatical terms but barely carry on a conversation with my French neighbour.
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16 hours ago, VooDooChild said:

It's just a puzzle to me how a falling shower rack can bring up tears months later.  Most likely she is probably just a sensitive girl who felt lost in a foreign country away from her constantly present family who did nothing to prepare her to live in the real world.  And her seemingly indifferent headship.  

I've been thinking about Jill, and how she really believed she had a heart for missionary work etc, because her work was simultaneously ridiculously sheltered on one hand, but on the other, she got to visit a lot more countries than the average person, so would have felt like she was a world traveller, and really could do it.  She'd put so many of her dreams into being a missionary wife, before she met Derick, but especially afterwards.

And I can't blame her for not seeing that she had crazy-unrealistic views of what missionary work was like, because her parents made such a big deal about what good work they were doing, and she's the kid that seemed to have bought into being a good daughter most. 

So I guess it could have been super-traumatic to realise actually, she's not cut out for it at all, especially as Derick seems to really love it.  What does she do now?  She has to follow her headship, and it's always so hard to tell the person you love that actually, this thing you agreed to do, for their career, isn't for you after all, even in an equitable relationship. 

And that's even if she can vocalise what she's going through, because imagine saying "actually, I don't want to be a missionary, I want to live near my parents", in a Fundy context?  Especially when she's made such a deal it's what God called her to do - it would feel like denying God's purpose.  I guess the only want to be able to do it without losing Fundy credibility is saying something like "seeing the birth of XYZ, I realise God is calling me to be a midwife in poor areas of the USA, and be a missionary in our home country" etc etc

And this comes back to everything we've all talked about x100, that she's been completely let down by her parents.  It's shitty that they've never given their children any realistic views of the world, and they go from hyper-sheltered to suddenly being out in the real world - no wonder it's a tough adjustment.

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VooDooChild
1 hour ago, Lurky said:

I've been thinking about Jill, and how she really believed she had a heart for missionary work etc, because her work was simultaneously ridiculously sheltered on one hand, but on the other, she got to visit a lot more countries than the average person, so would have felt like she was a world traveller, and really could do it.  She'd put so many of her dreams into being a missionary wife, before she met Derick, but especially afterwards.

Snip

You're probably right.  I guess I just have a hard time wrapping my head around how sheltered those kids are.  She may be feeling a major amount of cognitive dissonance but maybe has no idea how to express it.  She probably doesn't even recognize it.  Hence, the tears over the shower curtain story.  

I wonder how much she lets Derrick see that she is upset.  Is he clueless?  Is she hiding it?  Probably a bit of both.  I didn't watch the episode where Jill recapped the incident, so I didn't get to see how Derrick reacted.  They seem to have good chemistry and appear relaxed together compared to Benessa.  It would make my heart break for Jill if her husband was just a callous ass who continued with missions because that's what HE wanted.  Damn, she's been hurt enough by her parents.

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actuallyjessica
You're probably right.  I guess I just have a hard time wrapping my head around how sheltered those kids are.  She may be feeling a major amount of cognitive dissonance but maybe has no idea how to express it.  She probably doesn't even recognize it.  Hence, the tears over the shower curtain story.  
I wonder how much she lets Derrick see that she is upset.  Is he clueless?  Is she hiding it?  Probably a bit of both.  I didn't watch the episode where Jill recapped the incident, so I didn't get to see how Derrick reacted.  They seem to have good chemistry and appear relaxed together compared to Benessa.  It would make my heart break for Jill if her husband was just a callous ass who continued with missions because that's what HE wanted.  Damn, she's been hurt enough by her parents.

I found it on the TLC YouTube channel:
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I have now seen the famous shower rack clip above. Some thoughts:

I don't think that Jill is inheritable unsuited for mission work but that she should probably have been better off if they had gone somewhere where it would be easier for her to interact with people and go outside and learn what is dangerous and not in this place. I think it would have been better if she could have used English for communication too so that part is not also cut short. Mission work can mean a lot of things and she could still have had something interesting to show the viewers but had the chance to move away from being scared of everything. 

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backyard sylph
On 11/20/2016 at 9:49 AM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Grammar nazi make me a bit nervous, as a horrific speller and even worse typer I often make these mistakes. My biggest mistake isn't that I don't know the difference between the two it's just that I cannot spell the words, defiantly and definitely (and yes I had to google these to spell them properly) even to the point of allowing auto correct to fix them.

I, like Trump, have the best words, I know all the words, I just can't spell them. 

Spelling mistakes and typos aren't a big deal for most sensible people, nor casual language and punctutation in places like this. Words being substituted for others is what annoys most of us. It's less a question of grammar and spelling than of word usage and of knowing when to speak more or less formally. Here, obviously, things are very conversational and informal. :-)

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SummerRocks

Thanks for posting the shower rack incident scene @actuallyjessica

 

Well ... with all these daily occurrences of violence, gun shots, rapes and kidnappings if a shower curtain falling down, while your husband is at home with you, is your scariest moment you have experienced, I think they live in a pretty safe area. 

I wonder if Jill being a sexual abuse survivor (yes, I know in their eyes it was all nothing and it's all forgiven) has something to do with her expression of emotions during this shower rack falling down. 

(so the bathroom is their safe place, wouldn't they have seen it is the shower rack falling down when they are busy going on their laptops and asking the homefront for prayers) 

 

In my humble opinion these two are not cut out for the "work" they are doing. Maybe Derrick can just go back to work at Walmart so his wife and son can feel safe in America. 

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Georgiana

I hate to say it, but part of Jill's failure in missions is DIRECTLY the fault of her and Derrick and their massive Duggar hubris.  Pride does goeth before a fall, as they say.

"Real" missionaries spend A LOT of time preparing to minister to their country.  They work with an organization to learn how to minister, what to expect, the cultural norms of the place they are going, and the language at a BARE MINIMUM.  They often work closely with someone who is already there or who has been there before.  They have to meet standards for the organisation to send them, and if they don't, they're told they aren't suited to mission work or ready.

Jill and Derrick didn't WANT to take the time to really prepare.  They didn't WANT to be told they weren't ready (they weren't).  They didn't WANT to be told that this wasn't a good fit for them until they had really mastered the skills necessary to go.  They were Blessed Duggars, after all.  They could just do what they wanted, SURELY!

Then they got down there.  They didn't have the support system of a major organization to help ease the transition.  They didn't have the skills they needed to be successful and thrive.  Derrick has done this before, so he was able to find his own way, but Jill was lost.  

The truth is, a lot of this could have been avoided if they didn't fall prey to the general Duggar Hubris of believing you are BETTER than everyone else and that rules/limitations don't APPLY to you (see: Jessa and pregnancy  related medical care).  If they had been willing to LISTEN to organisations when they said "No, you aren't ready", they would have been better prepared.    If they had been willing to WAIT and take the time they needed to GET ready, Jill probably would have done better.  If they had gone with an organization that would have made sure to provide Jill with SUPPORT and help her ease the transition, she probably could have overcome this.

There are REASONS that missions orgs require what they require.  If only Jill and Derrick hadn't thought they were too good to subject themselves to the rules of others, this might have gone much, much better.

 

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@Carm_88 Well said.   You're completely right - I guess a life of going on "missions" with the family with no prep, no language skills, no nothing except the families' godly selves set Jill up for thinking that's how it's done - but Derick had done it before, surely he should have known better, even if he was buying into the Duggar "we're experts at this".

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Four is Enough

I just watched the "towel rack incident" and have come to a completely different conclusion.

CROCODILE TEARS.  That girl can turn it on and off at will.

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livinginthelight

@actuallyjessica, thanks for posting the shower clip.

I agree with those who say Jill is overwhelmed in general. But what really caught my attention is the lack of reaction of the sisters as Jill and Derrick talked. They seemed stone-faced. And did I maybe catch some eyerolls? 

They're very unnatural and disconnected from each other.

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Carm_88
1 minute ago, livinginthelight said:

@actuallyjessica, thanks for posting the shower clip.

I agree with those who say Jill is overwhelmed in general. But what really caught my attention is the lack of reaction of the sisters as Jill and Derrick talked. They seemed stone-faced. And did I maybe catch some eyerolls? 

They're very unnatural and disconnected from each other.

Oh they're thinking "Oh look Jill is being a drama queen...again!" I wouldn't be shocked, the way that she kept talking about her wedding day when Jinger was getting married shows me that as always Jill wants to make everything about Jill. She doesn't want to go back to Central America, she's playing up the shower rack incident so she doesn't have to go back. Poor Jilly, the golden child, she should come home and live in the McMansion, not in Central America. 

Jill wanted this, she thought that she could just follow Derek around talking about Jesus. She didn't realize how hard it would be. It's just foolish! 

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Buzzard

Jill and Derick are back for the simple fact that they were filming season 3.  They'll stick around until February for Jill to deliver Seawald #2 and maybe travel to Laredo for Bin and Jeremy to help out some poor souls in need of saving.  If she's not pregnant they'll head back to the "field" until they determine the fate of season 4.

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VineHeart137
10 minutes ago, livinginthelight said:

@actuallyjessica, thanks for posting the shower clip.

I agree with those who say Jill is overwhelmed in general. But what really caught my attention is the lack of reaction of the sisters as Jill and Derrick talked. They seemed stone-faced. And did I maybe catch some eyerolls? 

They're very unnatural and disconnected from each other.

I noticed that too. Jana even had a little smile/smirk on her face while Jill was getting all emotional. It was very odd.

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HarryPotterFan
17 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

Someone correct any errors- From what I can recall, back when they had bunk beds, Jessa had a bottom bunk and Jana had the top and Jessa would always be kicking the bunk with Jana in it. When Jana complained to her parents, instead of disciplining Jessa they told Jana to give Jessa something that Jana loved (I don't remember if they specifically told her to give up the jewelry box). I guess the idea was Jessa would end up feeling bad/guilty and would then leave Jana alone.

This Duggar logic fail bothers me so much. The most basic psychology tells you they're rewarding, and therefore reinforcing, bad behavior. Oh let's punish Jana instead because her sister is bullying her. It makes absolutely no sense.

Jana has been forced to put up with far too much in that family.

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marmalade
On 11/20/2016 at 9:00 AM, HereticHick said:

So do we think Derrick & Jill will stay in Arkansas for Christmas? I can see an upcoming Joy engagement during the holidays as an excuse.

The Dullards will go to Danger America for the December missioncations, the first of which begins on 12/3. It's whether they RETURN afterward that is the real question. My bet is yes, they'll be back, permanently. 

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2 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

@actuallyjessica, thanks for posting the shower clip.

I agree with those who say Jill is overwhelmed in general. But what really caught my attention is the lack of reaction of the sisters as Jill and Derrick talked. They seemed stone-faced. And did I maybe catch some eyerolls? 

They're very unnatural and disconnected from each other.

lack of reaction doesn't' surprise me with these people - because don't forget this "incident" happened months ago - its probably been dissected for eons by filming time...don't forget these people don't show real emotion on tv..nothing they say or do is true.   

plus the fact the sisters are probably used to each other's trigger points - whether they care or fake care is  another story 

i think Jessa fake cares as they all do... 

for such a CLOSE family the anger trigger points are starting to drift on to camera 

 

Edited by nst
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