Counting On Season Two- Part 4

[HarleyQuinn]

4 minutes ago, nst said:

I never saw those posts.  Wow hurtful 

I always thought because they bugged her because she was so young getting married re Alyssa 

 

It was  stupid because Allie seems like just a serious baby. My nephew was too, not all babies are smiley. I get the feeling the people on Alyssa's pages are mostly really young. 

[nst]

Just now, HarleyQuinn said:

It was  stupid because Allie seems like just a serious baby. My nephew was too, not all babies are smiley. I get the feeling the people on Alyssa's pages are mostly really young. 

like she is and plus the fact she seems way to happy lol 

and because she defied her parents by wearing pants? 

was she talkative on the show before she married ? 

[Bad Wolf]

Too bad Josiah had a failed courtship. In the real world, he would have dated Marjorie, they would have amicably split up, and nobody would think twice about it. Sometimes the fundie way is not the best way.

[mdatca]

I know people speculate about Bates/Duggar marriage but I don't see it happening.  They have spent a lot of time with them and I think that any crushes and such are long over and they are more like cousins.  I also think that Gil and Kelly would quietly discourage it.  We know that there are plenty of skeletons that have been shoved in closets but the general public do not know about them unlike the Duggars.  The false image of a good normal christian family is the golden ticket for them and they want to keep themselves out of the tabloids.

[Audrey2]

10 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm 46 most of my friends range in age from 35 to 60 and we all say "girls" when referring to each other.  Most people I know male and female, call groups of women girls/gals/guys. There is nothing sexist about it, its just what we say.

There are some women who are offended by this and if someone gets angry about it I'll change my vernacular for her but for everyone else I'm just gonna say what ever comes out of my mouth, because I don't mean anything by it. 

 

I'm in my 40's and my Sweetie and our closest friends are three men in their 50's. I'm always referring to them as the guys or my boys, even though one is a grandpa and the others are old enough to be.

 

It's all about context for me and attitude towards and familiarity with the people you're talking about. Quite honestly too, I think a bit depends on how old you feel. It was very jarring to me, when I went to college and was called a woman instead of a girl. I didn't feel old enough, and thought a woman was much older. The stay at home Duggar males are still treated as boys, and quite possibly think of themselves as boys,, so they may think of their female counterparts as girls instead of women.

[justmy2cents]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Too bad Josiah had a failed courtship. In the real world, he would have dated Marjorie, they would have amicably split up, and nobody would think twice about it. Sometimes the fundie way is not the best way.

During the Q&A he said that he was young and had some growing to do before settling down.  Probably something he realized during the courtship.  Would have been nice if it was acknowledged.  It would have made him relatable.  If TLC wanted to keep people interested they should present them in that light.  I think it's the family that are preventing a more realistic edit which will get the show off the air faster.  Would have been good to see Jinger say 'I don't feel like front hugs are impure' since clearly they're not adhering to just side hugs.  

[Lurky]

Here's what I wonder, re a possible Bates/Duggar courtship - and it could be any Fundy courtship, actually:  how do they decide who God is talking to?

Families A and B are close.  Son A feels that Daughter B is the ideal woman for him, and he goes to his dad, and they pray, and decide yes, God agrees Daughter B is the one.  So Son A approaches Father B.  Father B prays about it, and decides no, this isn't God's plan... How do the 2 patriarchs fight that one out about which one is the one God really is speaking to?  Do they try to persuade each other?  Does the family friendship fade, with snark about false prophets and such? 

I am always fascinated by this, so I'd love any insight from our ex-fundies.  I know that the girl who cancelled her wedding to a....  Maxwell? on the day of the bridal shower had all the snark thrown at her and her family - but in these families where the Patriarchs are the direct links to god, who arbitrates?

[alba]

That is a very good question, @Lurky! It's not something that's ever occurred to me, but you're right; these people believe that God answers their prayers by guiding them towards a particular path, so what happens when two people reach different conclusions?

[apandaaries]

9 minutes ago, Lurky said:

Here's what I wonder, re a possible Bates/Duggar courtship - and it could be any Fundy courtship, actually:  how do they decide who God is talking to?

Families A and B are close.  Son A feels that Daughter B is the ideal woman for him, and he goes to his dad, and they pray, and decide yes, God agrees Daughter B is the one.  So Son A approaches Father B.  Father B prays about it, and decides no, this isn't God's plan... How do the 2 patriarchs fight that one out about which one is the one God really is speaking to?  Do they try to persuade each other?  Does the family friendship fade, with snark about false prophets and such? 

I am always fascinated by this, so I'd love any insight from our ex-fundies.  I know that the girl who cancelled her wedding to a....  Maxwell? on the day of the bridal shower had all the snark thrown at her and her family - but in these families where the Patriarchs are the direct links to god, who arbitrates?

I think in such cases, possession is nine-tenths of the law.  Since girls/women are objects to use as bargaining chips  be guarded, whatever male holds her umbrella of protection just grips that umbrella tighter (or wields it as a weapon) and shoos away the undesirable potential mate.  

At least, as far as I can tell.  No one I know in real life claims to get direct orders from God, or  bargains with God via coin flip (as JB did before running for office), nor receives any other questionable method of divine instruction.  

[VelociRapture]

12 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

 

Perhaps she's miscarried and isn't ready to go public yet? I hate to go there but that could send her radio silent. And in this case I wouldn't give her an ounce of grief for being quiet and dealing privately with it.  This is something that people who are not the mom and dad don't have to be told until they are ready to tell.   

Please know I'm NOT being mean here, I could never wish this on anyone, no matter what I think of them, I'm just saying that is the one thing I can think of that would make her so quiet.  I also hope I'm wrong and she's just being secretive. 

Benessa seems to have waited to announce the pregnancy until they hit the 12 week or so mark. That means their risk of a miscarriage would have already dropped dramatically. It's still absolutely possible of course. But I think it's probably more likely at this point that they've been quiet for other reasons. 

I took a quick look at their website and Instagram accounts. Jessa last posted September 21 and Ben's latest post was two days ago. So they really haven't been completely radio silent - just quieter about this pregnancy then their first, which is understandable because they have an 11 month old to chase around. 

(And I do absolutely agree with you. When a miscarriage occurs the parents should reveal the news when and if they feel ready to. Even if they're a reality star who has publicly announced the pregnancy already. And as much as I don't want more innocent kids born into ths cult - I also sincerely hope that they haven't suffered a loss.)

[freshlemonade]

Something just seems off about this whole episode. As discussed,  it seemed poorly edited, incredibly dull, and had more flashback filler than usual.  It's almost like they added this episode in at the last minute.  Does anybody remember "Guys' Guide to Courting"  being listed as an episode before?  Maybe like an earlier poster said (sorry can't find the quote), they threw it together as filler because they were going up against the VP debate?  I don't know.  It just seems like TLC did a quick re-editing, rearranging, throw together chop-job of an episode.  They really teased the engagement last week-then nothing but lame airport scenes.   I also think something is up.   

I so wish they'd at least touch on some of the real difficulties they are dealing with.  I realize that goes against their whole be content with what God gives you thing, but it would make for such better tv.  Who I am I kidding though?  

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Ugh--vaccuuming or a root canal sound more fun than this episode.

On John-David: He's gotten OUT. Not just on the family trips but even a small town cop will see some stuff to make you question what you've been taught. He's got a house with no mortgage. Can drive anything that moves. He'll make it in life.

Joe: I see another Gothard Mission trip or 5 in his future trying to find a wife.

Josiah: Tainted.  Let's hope what's her name reconsiders.

Jer/Jed...um...what business? Daddy & Grandma's rentals? Do they have some micro business selling hunting knives on Ebay or something?

Jason....well, maybe they didn't get all the way down to hi.

J'finger just wants ACTION. Needs a cold shower. Jeremy...not so much.

Josh/Anna--Her parents needed to cut the grocery bill and Joshie came calling. Remember their horrific proposal scene. She said "IS that...Joshua?" Like Charles and Diana--afterwards it was crystal clear.  JB will probably make Josh work for cash so if they ever divorce Anna won't ever collect child support.

Why do the couples all call each other "Babe?" (I hate that--sorry if you like it)? No "Sweetie" or "honey" or "pumpkin" or "dickhead" or whatever said affectionately??? Babe.  I only like it when Ranger says in in the Stephanie Plum books.

Please  tell me the rumors of an Amy show are just rumors. But it IS weird that Grandma isn't ever seen now.

 

 

[JMO]

I've seen pictures of Amy getting filmed.  It seems like she really will have a show or special on TV soon. 

[missegeno]

Why do the couples all call each other "Babe?" (I hate that--sorry if you like it)? No "Sweetie" or "honey" or "pumpkin" or "dickhead" or whatever said affectionately??? Babe.

I call my significant other babe. "Sweetie" and "honey" remind me too much of grandmothers and waitresses. "Pumpkin" sounds silly to me. Sometimes I go with "dickhead" but more often just simply "dick"

[PartriarchydefyinValkarie]

51 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

Ugh--vaccuuming or a root canal sound more fun than this episode.

On John-David: He's gotten OUT. Not just on the family trips but even a small town cop will see some stuff to make you question what you've been taught. He's got a house with no mortgage. Can drive anything that moves. He'll make it in life.

Joe: I see another Gothard Mission trip or 5 in his future trying to find a wife.

Josiah: Tainted.  Let's hope what's her name reconsiders.

Jer/Jed...um...what business? Daddy & Grandma's rentals? Do they have some micro business selling hunting knives on Ebay or something?

Jason....well, maybe they didn't get all the way down to hi.

J'finger just wants ACTION. Needs a cold shower. Jeremy...not so much.

Josh/Anna--Her parents needed to cut the grocery bill and Joshie came calling. Remember their horrific proposal scene. She said "IS that...Joshua?" Like Charles and Diana--afterwards it was crystal clear.  JB will probably make Josh work for cash so if they ever divorce Anna won't ever collect child support.

Why do the couples all call each other "Babe?" (I hate that--sorry if you like it)? No "Sweetie" or "honey" or "pumpkin" or "dickhead" or whatever said affectionately??? Babe.  I only like it when Ranger says in in the Stephanie Plum books.

Please  tell me the rumors of an Amy show are just rumors. But it IS weird that Grandma isn't ever seen now.

 

 

The only couple I'm ok with that "Babe calling" is fictional. Hiccup&Astrid from HTTYD. I personally love when he calls her Milady. ^.^

As for why the couples feel the need to call their significant other that.. well they know the world most likely does and they want to seem as if the relationship they are in is normal. "Just like you!" 

Anna IS a sad sad tale. The proposal was in a Flordia equivalent of a dennys. But she did get balloons right? Lol

[montyollie]

I stand alone, it seems, as a female bodied adult person who is horrified by the use of "girl" to describe adults.  I don't do it and I won't.  I hate infantilization.  Makes me crazy.  Bad enough that patriarchal shit makes grown women objects to be tossed from daddy to hubby but still.

I find the term offensive.  I use  girl to describe a female bodied child up to about 10.  Then a tween, then a preteen, then a teen than a young woman then a woman.  MHO.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, amandaaries said:

I think in such cases, possession is nine-tenths of the law.  Since girls/women are objects to use as bargaining chips  be guarded, whatever male holds her umbrella of protection just grips that umbrella tighter (or wields it as a weapon) and shoos away the undesirable potential mate.  

At least, as far as I can tell.  No one I know in real life claims to get direct orders from God, or  bargains with God via coin flip (as JB did before running for office), nor receives any other questionable method of divine instruction.  

I've come to realize that when most people are "praying for God's guidance" what they are really doing is praying for God to let them do what they want to do. They don't want guidance they want to do what they want to do and they use the guise of prayer to say its OK to do it.

My husbands grandma was a sharp no fuss old lady, she said what she wanted and gave zero fucks about what anyone else though about it. We were all sitting around talking one day and one of her grand kids said she'd been praying and praying about getting this job or something like that and Grandma said "well I guess your answer is no, so you need to move on" The girl said "but I really want it" grandma said "I guess that is too bad" LOL! So I do try and remember that sometimes the answer is no and I have to move on, no matter if I want to or not.

[Cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

On John-David: He's gotten OUT. Not just on the family trips but even a small town cop will see some stuff to make you question what you've been taught. He's got a house with no mortgage. Can drive anything that moves. He'll make it in life.

By his own admission, JD still lives at home and is perfectly content to let his sisters and maybe grandma cook and clean for him. In and of itself, that's not necessarily a problem, since many twenty-somethings live at home with their families and the chores are delegated between members. However, most twenty-somethings do know how to wash their own clothes, cook, and maintain an apartment or small house. These are properly understood as life skills, but JD has been raised to think of them as "women's work." Remember when he and Joseph were living at the TTH when the rest of the family was in Little Rock, and the J'slaves came to visit and discovered the house a mess? Lots of things are scripted with this family, but I don't think JD and Joseph's domestic ineptness is. This means that JD couldn't live independently if he wanted to, because he would have no idea how to maintain a home without it becoming a trash heap, and he would blow tons of money just going to the drive-thru, rather than learn to do his own cooking.

Even when 19KAC was going on, JD was usually part of the dog and pony show, playing screechy violins with the rest of the family. If we give JD the benefit of the doubt and assume that he does want to work hard, having to take time off from work to be on the road is not conducive to building a strong work ethic. If anything, it sends the message that the Duggars can get a check for simply existing, which discourages the desire to work at a "real job."

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

By his own admission, JD still lives at home and is perfectly content to let his sisters and maybe grandma cook and clean for him. In and of itself, that's not necessarily a problem, since many twenty-somethings live at home with their families and the chores are delegated between members. However, most twenty-somethings do know how to wash their own clothes, cook, and maintain an apartment or small house. These are properly understood as life skills, but JD has been raised to think of them as "women's work." Remember when he and Joseph were living at the TTH when the rest of the family was in Little Rock, and the J'slaves came to visit and discovered the house a mess? Lots of things are scripted with this family, but I don't think JD and Joseph's domestic ineptness is. This means that JD couldn't live independently if he wanted to, because he would have no idea how to maintain a home without it becoming a trash heap, and he would blow tons of money just going to the drive-thru, rather than learn to do his own cooking.

Even when 19KAC was going on, JD was usually part of the dog and pony show, playing screechy violins with the rest of the family. If we give JD the benefit of the doubt and assume that he does want to work hard, having to take time off from work to be on the road is not conducive to building a strong work ethic. If anything, it sends the message that the Duggars can get a check for simply existing, which discourages the desire to work at a "real job."

To the bolded, in JD's defense not even the girls know how to keep house or cook, at least not all 3 tasks, Jessa can do laundry but can't really cook or clean, Jill has learned to cook, and can do laundry not sure about her house keeping skills. 

[QuiverDance]

26 minutes ago, montyollie said:

I stand alone, it seems, as a female bodied adult person who is horrified by the use of "girl" to describe adults.  I don't do it and I won't.  I hate infantilization.  Makes me crazy.  Bad enough that patriarchal shit makes grown women objects to be tossed from daddy to hubby but still.

I find the term offensive.  I use  girl to describe a female bodied child up to about 10.  Then a tween, then a preteen, then a teen than a young woman then a woman.  MHO.

 

It bothers me when men call women girls, too.  Particularly in professional settings.  It really should be avoided.  It is incredibly infantilizing, and it bugs the shit out of me.   Girls' night out, for example, makes me internally barf, but most people I know don't share my disgust, so I tend to keep it to myself.  I totally get what you're saying.  Doesn't really bother me to hear women talk about "the girls," but when men do it, it really bugs me. 

 

See also... when dad's talk about "babysitting" for their wives.  I know SO MANY guys who do this.  I'm like....  you are parenting, asshat.  

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

To the bolded, in JD's defense not even the girls know how to keep house or cook, at least not all 3 tasks, Jessa can do laundry but can't really cook or clean, Jill has learned to cook, and can do laundry not sure about her house keeping skills. 

That's certainly true. JB and Michelle like to brag about all the practical skills their kids have, but it's quite obvious how deficient they are in these areas. It makes me wonder what the Duggars do all day, since they aren't learning anything or holding conventional jobs. Even filming can't take up that much time.

[PartriarchydefyinValkarie]

Only half way through "A boys guide to courtship" and oi vey! I don't see any trust for the girls and ugh I hate seeing JB grab Jill in Nepal and move her over to his side forcefully. It just showed how much he didn't even trust Derek. 

Speaking of Derek the akwardness is palpable when speaking of chaperones. 

Does anyone think that small chuckle Jessa does is her way of keeping from being anything but happy all the time. I've noticed she does it even in uncomfortable situations. 

Ooh, now to Josiah. 

[JesSky03]

I find it strange that "babe" is their pet name of choice too. It has a sexual connotation to it IMO. However I like babe better than baby. I can't stand it when couples refer to each other as baby. I don't know why it just bothers the heck out of me. I know I'm a hypocrite though because I am sure my husband and I sound sickening to other people- he calls me sweetie and I call him honey. It's to the point that it feels really weird saying each other's real names. Its been like that for 9 years- not sure how it started but we can't seem to break it lol.

[QuiverDance]

Guilty of babe-calling over here.  

[Workingmom]

6 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

It was  stupid because Allie seems like just a serious baby. My nephew was too, not all babies are smiley. I get the feeling the people on Alyssa's pages are mostly really young. 

This is very stupid.  My son was a very sunny baby, always laughing. But he has a severe autistic disorder. These kind of disorders  aren't this easy to diagnose. Every person is different, ever autistic  person is different.

( first time poster, so if I am making  a mistake, please don't be mad )