Duggars by the Dozenty!!11!- Part 22: More threads than Duggars

[Carm_88]

Like all things with the Duggars, they don't eat pork when it's convenient to them. 

[HarryPotterFan]

Another thing I was thinking about in regards to how the Duggars like to cherry pick the Old Testament: The Torah commands us to put our health first. For example, if you are elderly, sick, pregnant, etc then you are excerpt from fasting on holidays such as Yom Kippur. If you are stuck on an island with only pigs to eat, you are commanded to eat in order to survive, that makes it kosher. As stated previously, a devout Jew who practices medicine can practice on the Sabbath because they are healing someone. 

So why on earth do the fundies think it shows their G-dliness to ignore commandments to make their health and the health of their unborn child a priority?

 

[Lurky]

Ugh it's like the fundamentalist-vegan I knew at uni, who'd preach and preach at vegetarians about how wrong they were, but have a bacon sandwich every now and then (she was also incredibly tedious about how everything should be Fair Trade, and go on tirades at people for eating non FT chocolate etc, but see no problem using cocaine, which definitely wasn't being produced in a feminist non-profit collective....  But I digress...)

[MargaretElliott]

@Lurky that sounds like the kind of person who would test my boundaries as a pacifist. She sounds like she could do with a swift kick in the pants (metaphorically). But it's that hypocrisy that gets me about the Duggars. No pork, but shellfish is okay. Because they hold themselves to a higher standard. Higher than the one laid out in the Bible, specifically Acts 10:13. Does that mean that Gothard's word is literally more important than the word of God? Or is it Jimboob that's more important than God? How can you have a heart for the Lord if you think you know better than Him? Its utterly ridiculous.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

Ugh it's like the fundamentalist-vegan I knew at uni, who'd preach and preach at vegetarians about how wrong they were, but have a bacon sandwich every now and then (she was also incredibly tedious about how everything should be Fair Trade, and go on tirades at people for eating non FT chocolate etc, but see no problem using cocaine, which definitely wasn't being produced in a feminist non-profit collective....  But I digress...)

This just reminded me of a running joke my friends had about how legalizing hard drugs would be good for treating addiction, but it would also lead to trucks selling artisanal rose-quartz crack and fair-trade black tar heroin that was played Miles Davis records on loop 24/7 while it was being cultivated in Afghanistan.

[SassyPants]

They hold themselves to higher a standard, EXCEPT the standard that you have to be a contributing member of society. Meaning, getting up  and to WORK on time, in order to support yourself for about 35+ years. 

No, they do not hold themselves to a higher standard. They are lazy, uneducated bottom feeding scam artists.

I hate lip service. 

[Lurky]

@MargaretElliott That was just scratching the surface - and typically, spent her uni years rebelling against her parents, and then lived off them as soon as she left...  Last heard of, she'd had a baby and decided off the back of that she was going to become a midwife, and didn't she have strong opinions about how everyone else was Doing Birth Wrong?

@nastyhobbitses We used to have similar jokes about how HER coke wasn't cultivated/transported by cartels, of no!

[alba]

Another thing I was thinking about in regards to how the Duggars like to cherry pick the Old Testament: The Torah commands us to put our health first. For example, if you are elderly, sick, pregnant, etc then you are excerpt from fasting on holidays such as Yom Kippur. If you are stuck on an island with only pigs to eat, you are commanded to eat in order to survive, that makes it kosher. As stated previously, a devout Jew who practices medicine can practice on the Sabbath because they are healing someone. 
So why on earth do the fundies think it shows their G-dliness to ignore commandments to make their health and the health of their unborn child a priority?
 

That reminds me of something I've read, though I don't know if it's true. It was something I read in the context of how fundies cite freedom of religion in their anti-choice campaigning, but never stop to think about what other religions say with regards to abortion. Anyway, apparently in Judaism a pregnant woman whose life is at stake is REQUIRED to have an abortion. Is that the case?

[Cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, alba said:

 

That reminds me of something I've read, though I don't know if it's true. It was something I read in the context of how fundies cite freedom of religion in their anti-choice campaigning, but never stop to think about what other religions say with regards to abortion. Anyway, apparently in Judaism a pregnant woman whose life is at stake is REQUIRED to have an abortion. Is that the case?

 

I don't know if an abortion is required, but I do know that the fetus is considered part of the mother according to the rabbinic consensus, which also states that life begins with the baby takes a breath. The Orthodox Jewish Union protested Roe V. Wade when it first came out, but I think that was because of a dislike of "abortion on demand," not abortion as such. I believe the consensus in Islam allows abortion until the end of the first trimester, though as with many aspects of Islam, YMMV. Hinduism and Buddhism both see abortion as having negative karmic effects, but believe that the life of theother trumps that of the fetus, since the fomer is more "karmically evolved" and more lives would be negatively impacted by he death than that of the fetus. As far as I can tell, the "life begins at conception" view seems to only be prevalent among conservative Protestants and Catholics.

[alba]

Thanks for the information,@Cleopatra7. I didn't know about the "life begins at first breath" thing; complete opposite of the fundie "life begins at conception"!

[MargaretElliott]

Fun fact: back in the day (like up until the late 1800s, I think) most Christian women considered life to begin not at conception, but at the quickening- the moment they felt the baby move. This usually happens in the middle of a pregnancy, well after modern fundies see life beginning. In lots of medical advice books, certain herbs were described as emmenogogues. Historically, this meant a medicine that regulates periods and brings on menstruation, usually for reasons other than pregnancy. BUT, there is a very specific reason a woman isn't getting her period, but would want to. We know that most of these herbs were, in fact, abortifacients, used under the guise of menstrual regulation. Tansy, pennyroyal, vervain, and even wild carrot (aka Queen Anne's Lace) were used to terminate a pregnancy with the right use and dosage. They usually had some nasty side effects, too. To me, I find it interesting that these fundies sometimes look back at the "good old days" when they're actually way more conservative than Christians in the 1800s.

Source: The Family Nurse, by Lydia Maria Child. Fascinating book.

[SassyPants]

Does anyone know where Josh and Anna live?

Could it be in GMMary's old room?

[Free Jana Duggar]

Anyone see this?   I sooooo hope it's true. Let's all start praying. Come on, Anna! You can do it!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3897650/Will-Anna-Duggar-dump-disgraced-husband-Josh-Reality-star-considering-divorce-new-friends-urge-leave-one-year-molestation-scandal.html

[wandering woman]

I doubt it is true.  The Daily Mail is a tabloid newspaper in the United Kingdom that is similar to the National Enquirer.  They print all kinds of articles that are not necessarily factual in nature.

[HarryPotterFan]

8 hours ago, alba said:

Thanks for the information,@Cleopatra7. I didn't know about the "life begins at first breath" thing; complete opposite of the fundie "life begins at conception"!

@Cleopatra7 said it better than I could have, I somehow forgot about the life beginning at birth thing, haha.

This source confirms what Cleopatra said. 

Quote

Halakhah [Jewish law] clearly permits, and even mandates, abortion in any case where there is danger to the mother's life, from conception until at least until the head of an infant emerges in childbirth.

http://www.uscj.org/JewishLivingandLearning/SocialAction/SocialJustice/CurrentIssues/Political_SocialIssues/TheAbortionControversy.aspx

That slide is long but interesting. Apparently in the first 40 days after conception, the fetus is considered a "fluid" and not yet a potential life. Sources vary on whether abortion is permitted in non-life threatening situations. The source also states the fetus is valued because it is a potential life, but not as valued as the mother because it is not yet born.

Thanks for asking, I learned something I wouldn't have looked up other wise!  

And yeah, it pisses me off that the far right/fundies seem to think that freedom of religion and religious opinion only applies to them.

In Judaism, life on earth is what is most important. Judaism teaches to live a meaningful life full of mitzvot (good deeds), rather than a focus on the after life. I don't think I learned anything about the afterlife in Hebrew school. But it's interesting to compare "do good things because you're supposed to/it's the right thing to do" mindset to these fundies we snark on, who act like the only reason not to commit sins/run around killing people is the threat of hell. 

[CorruptionInc.]

We wish Anna was getting divorced from that sorry excuse for a human being!

[calimojo]

I just don't see what options Anna has.  Josh has probably not got much money.  He is unemployed and would remain so on purpose so he wouldn't have to pay alimony or child support.  Her own parents would possibly not welcome her back and while her brother said he would help her,  just how much help could he give her in the long run?  Taking in a single mother with 4 kids would take a lot of resources.  I doubt that Anna would consider working and even if she did,  what is she qualified to do?  And how would she pay for childcare for 4 kids on an entry level salary?

 

She could possibly opt to sell her story, and make some fast cash that way, but that wouldn't last long.  Her only hope, would be if Josh has managed to alienate himself from his family enough that they would side with Anna.  Right now she has built in childcare.  And while she probably doesn't have much money, she at least has a roof over her head.    As much as we wish that Anna had the option to leave, I just don't think that is a reality for her.  Unless,  like I said she either has the support of the Duggars or if she is willing to sell them out, which I doubt.

 

[foreign fundie]

Reading the article, it reminded me of how bizarre this whole counting on is with all the fuss about the weddings. The fact that Anna is ignored does not mean she does not exist. Not saying Jinger should not have her moment of glory because of Josh. But they are still promoting the whole courting/ godly man/ modest woman thing as a success formula for eternal happiness. Which again is bizarre when considering the Josh situation.

Another star struck sheltered girl is jumping into a fast track marriage to a guy she barely knows, who will have full control over her and who is vetted by her parents,  who have not been known for their discretion. What could go wrong? Let's ask Anna.

It seems non of their basic assumptions have changed post Joshley. And non of the risk factors have been elimminated. And they still advertise their methods using their pretty daughter and staged romance.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

I just hope Jinger is happy. This is what she expected in life and if he is just a decent person, within the fundie land rules she at least won't suffer greatly. I don't want any of them to suffer....well.....maybe Josh....that was evil to say. I guess.

[nst]

16 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I just hope Jinger is happy. This is what she expected in life and if he is just a decent person, within the fundie land rules she at least won't suffer greatly. I don't want any of them to suffer....well.....maybe Josh....that was evil to say. I guess.

no I want Josh to suffer 

[Carm_88]

6 minutes ago, nst said:

no I want Josh to suffer 

Mmmm I wouldn't put negativity out there. Just say "I hope that Josh gets what he puts out into the world." He's sure a shit will not appreciate that because it's been nothing but hate. 

[calimojo]

Josh is a victim of his parents incredibly poor judgment.  He is the symptom of the level of dysfunction in that home.  He is a hateful, selfish, homophobic, hypocrite because that is exactly what he was raised to be.  He is proof positive of the poisonous ideas and culture that he was raised in,

Oh, and Screw the Duggars!  Cubs WIN!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

[HarryPotterFan]

5 hours ago, calimojo said:

I just don't see what options Anna has.  Josh has probably not got much money.  He is unemployed and would remain so on purpose so he wouldn't have to pay alimony or child support.  Her own parents would possibly not welcome her back and while her brother said he would help her,  just how much help could he give her in the long run?  Taking in a single mother with 4 kids would take a lot of resources.  I doubt that Anna would consider working and even if she did,  what is she qualified to do?  And how would she pay for childcare for 4 kids on an entry level salary?

 

She could possibly opt to sell her story, and make some fast cash that way, but that wouldn't last long.  Her only hope, would be if Josh has managed to alienate himself from his family enough that they would side with Anna.  Right now she has built in childcare.  And while she probably doesn't have much money, she at least has a roof over her head.    As much as we wish that Anna had the option to leave, I just don't think that is a reality for her.  Unless,  like I said she either has the support of the Duggars or if she is willing to sell them out, which I doubt.

 

I think the only job she'd really qualify for is working in a daycare center. But if hell froze over and Jim Bob and the devil skated around doing the tango (okay I need sleep...) and she did leave Josh, she'd lose her free child care. Which is super hella expensive. I know a woman who used to work in a day care center but there was no discount or anything for employees, and with her salary she couldn't afford to pay for her child to go there. Which is super fucked up. Basically she has no good options and she's stuck with the twatwaffle.

[Lurky]

8 hours ago, calimojo said:

I just don't see what options Anna has.  Josh has probably not got much money.  He is unemployed and would remain so on purpose so he wouldn't have to pay alimony or child support. 

Plus the Duggars went out of their way to hide his assets, when they were worried about court cases - selling their house to that weird Trust etc.  In normal circs this could mean Anna knows where the cash goes, but I'm betting JB also hid it all from her, on the outside chance she did divorce.

And ironically, Josh not appearing on TLC (& thus getting an income) makes it harder for Anna to leave, as no cash.

(Not saying Anna wants to leave, or not, just talking about practicalities)

[Free Jana Duggar]

Maybe TLC could give Anna her own show...

That would give her some money, or maybe a tell all book.

 A good lawyer could probably find a way to get her some of the Duggar $$$. There was one who offered his service pro bono right after the s**t hit the fan last year.

I am just hoping this is true, but I'm not holding my breath.