Duggars by the Dozenty!!11!- Part 22: More threads than Duggars

[calimojo]

On 10/25/2016 at 9:00 AM, nst said:

now this is fascinating - you think he has issues about how he presents himself on tv....

because on instagram and facebook he comes across as a mean surprising preacher / man trying to scare and educate at the same time. I don't like how he always preaches, but alas that is what he wants to be.  

He wants to be heard, while on tv he comes across as a jackass who doesn't spew anything normal just looks to his wife and when he does he comes across as silly child. .... or  fakes his way through a scene. 

Everything these people do is for marketing their tv show. if you saw the clip for tonight's show - they don't get other's people's humor - jessa didn't like that people couldn't figure out the chalkboard meant doubling the love of children not that she was expecting twins when she isn't - she actually got pissed .  These people except other people to think like them and when we don't they dont' like that we don't get it. .... 

Maybe I didn't express myself well.  What I mean is that obviously, has some ability to communicate and use his head well enough to at least finish a 2 year program and get accepted to Moody.  Not saying he is a genius, but I also don't think he is technically stupid.  Ignorant yes, but stupid maybe not.    But I think he seriously has difficulty expressing himself via the spoken word.  He is so awkward and seems to have trouble completing a thought. 

 

Ben has a lot of growing up to do, but I at least appreciate that he  has been willing to color outside the lines a bit by ever so slightly expanding his world view.  Derick, on the other hand, who you would think would have more compassion and empathy for people with cultural and racial inequity given that he has supposedly dedicated himself to helping 'the brown' people,  is instead a right wing nut job who supports trump.   He is showing himself to be a bigger and bigger tool constantly.    You would think that Man Bun, with his world experience would be somewhat more liberal and Ben, barely out of training pants would echo the conservative ideals of his family and inlaws.  Now, Having said this,  we should remember that Ben has not indicated he is voting for HRC.  He will probably still vote for Trump. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, calimojo said:

Maybe I didn't express myself well.  What I mean is that obviously, has some ability to communicate and use his head well enough to at least finish a 2 year program and get accepted to Moody.  Not saying he is a genius, but I also don't think he is technically stupid.  Ignorant yes, but stupid maybe not.    But I think he seriously has difficulty expressing himself via the spoken word.  He is so awkward and seems to have trouble completing a thought. 

 

Ben has a lot of growing up to do, but I at least appreciate that he  has been willing to color outside the lines a bit by ever so slightly expanding his world view.  Derick, on the other hand, who you would think would have more compassion and empathy for people with cultural and racial inequity given that he has supposedly dedicated himself to helping 'the brown' people,  is instead a right wing nut job who supports trump.   He is showing himself to be a bigger and bigger tool constantly.    You would think that Man Bun, with his world experience would be somewhat more liberal and Ben, barely out of training pants would echo the conservative ideals of his family and inlaws.  Now, Having said this,  we should remember that Ben has not indicated he is voting for HRC.  He will probably still vote for Trump. 

To be fair to Ben, he has expressed hesitation and doubts regarding a Trump presidency via social media. He doesn't seem sold on the idea that Trump could be an effective President or that he's a trustworthy Christian man. It's possible he'll vote for him, but he could still go third party or write-in a candidate (if Arkansas allows write-in votes.)

There is no doubt in my mind that Clinton is not an option for him. She supports abortion and has made that very clear. That's got to be a deal breaker for Ben and the Duggars.

[Palimpsest]

On 10/21/2016 at 1:39 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I can't cite sources, but I seem to recall that Gothardism stresses following a few cherry-picked Old Testament laws to receive "spiritual benefits". So, no sex for 40 days after the birth of a boy, no sex for 80 days after the birth of a girl.  No pork. (But all those other laws about not mixing wool and cotton or not eating dairy and meat? Eh, who cares!)

Gothard's cherry-picked Mosaic Law teaching is discussed here: 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/01/a-response-to-bill-gothard/

"To illustrate this difference, let’s consider Gothard’s teaching on pork. Gothard has often taught that Christians should keep the Mosaic Law (or at least certain portions of it that he has selected). One example of this is Gothard’s teaching that Christians shouldn’t eat pork. Gothard would refer to such a lifestyle choice as a “higher standard,” when in reality, this “higher standard” was abrogated by the New Covenant (Acts 10:9-16; Colossians 2:16-17). " 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Thanks, @Palimpsest! A link to good research is always better than, "I seem to recall..." 

[LizzieD70]

So today I was feeling under the weather and spent the day in and out of sleep.  At some point I decided to watch an old Duggar show on youtube (Raising 16 Children - from fall 2005).  I wish I hadn't because of one sad feature the show had....They did the "Duggar Line Up" and each child was introduced and it included their future goal.  Some were predictable (Jill and Jana).  Anyway, here is the list...Jackson (16 1/2 months - future goal "big brother), Justin (2 3/4 yrs - builder), James (4 years, policeman), Jason (5 1/2 years - fireman), Jeremiah (6 3/4 yrs - artist), Jedidiah (6 3/4 yrs - Dad), Joy-Anna (7 3/4 yrs - nurse), Josiah (9 yrs - missionary), Joseph (10 1/2 yrs - carpenter), Jinger (11 3/4 - chef), Jessa (12 3/4 - beautician), Jill (14 1/2 - missionary), John David (15 1/2 yrs - contractor), Jana (15 1/2 yrs - midwife), Josh (17 1/2 - attorney.

IMO, Boob and Me'chelle did the children a disservice - obviously the girls would never be encouraged to have a future outside of wife/mother...but even the boys are not encouraged by not being given a proper education....I mean what if Jinger had actually been encouraged to go to culinary school...or if Jessa had become a licensed beautician.  If they had been given options and chose to be wife/mother and not work out of the home then fine - that is cool.  But these kids were never given a chance and it is such a waste.

Saddest part of this...Jana listed her favorite pastime as "babysitting"

[ADoyle90815]

I saw this on my Facebook feed, and it made me think of the Duggars for obvious reasons, about the risks of wearing their favorite shoes.

http://kost1035.iheart.com/onair/kari-steele-44706/do-you-wear-flip-flops-a-15218446/

[MoonFace]

On 10/21/2016 at 7:48 PM, calimojo said:

They don't eat pork due to old testament references about not eating pork.  This is a weird gothardism.  Gothard and his ilk love that old testament, even though it is odd as Christians to give it as much weight as they do.  As to eating bacon or sausage, I think they probably simply don't think too much about what or where those foods come from.  I know they eat turkey bacon at home, but I imagine when they are out and about or eating junk food, they are consuming pork, whether they realize it or not.   

 

To me it is like when they eat that tex-mex flaming cheese dip that uses alcohol to set flame the dish.  THey justify that it gets burned off, but that doesn't really address their moral opposition to alcohol.  Michelle has protested places that sell alcohol, and yet, Jessa and Ben have posted pictures of that flaming cheese queso fundido, I think  it is called. 

 

Bolded is mine.  

 

I was in a semi fundie church (fundamental Baptist - but not totally nuts)  from age 12-19.    We were taught that when Christ came that the veil of the temple was torn - so other than basic things like the 10 Commandments that we were no longer bound by the Old Testament.    

As for not eating pork or shelled sea foods it was a sanitation thing because of the lack of refrigeration for foods that spoil so easily in desert conditions.    

Ding Dong Duggars once again use the parts that they want to use and forget the rest of the bible  and teachings.    

 

[BackseatMom]

16 hours ago, MoonFace said:

 

As for not eating pork or shelled sea foods it was a sanitation thing because of the lack of refrigeration for foods that spoil so easily in desert conditions.
 

I agree that I find fundie cherry picking distasteful.

However, millions of people (most of whom are not dangerous fundamentalists, just regular Muslims or Jews) still keep kosher or halal and don't eat those things. Its a lot more complicated than ancient food storage practices. Even from an archeological standpoint and not a religious one, those dismissive, pat answers don't hold up to the evidence. They are too simplistic.

[Front Hugging Fiend]

On 10/27/2016 at 10:23 AM, calimojo said:

Maybe I didn't express myself well.  What I mean is that obviously, has some ability to communicate and use his head well enough to at least finish a 2 year program and get accepted to Moody.  Not saying he is a genius, but I also don't think he is technically stupid.  Ignorant yes, but stupid maybe not.    But I think he seriously has difficulty expressing himself via the spoken word.  He is so awkward and seems to have trouble completing a thought. 

 

Ben has a lot of growing up to do, but I at least appreciate that he  has been willing to color outside the lines a bit by ever so slightly expanding his world view.  Derick, on the other hand, who you would think would have more compassion and empathy for people with cultural and racial inequity given that he has supposedly dedicated himself to helping 'the brown' people,  is instead a right wing nut job who supports trump.   He is showing himself to be a bigger and bigger tool constantly.    You would think that Man Bun, with his world experience would be somewhat more liberal and Ben, barely out of training pants would echo the conservative ideals of his family and inlaws.  Now, Having said this,  we should remember that Ben has not indicated he is voting for HRC.  He will probably still vote for Trump. 

Ben stated in the comments of one of his instagram posts a looooong time ago that he could not vote for Trump OR Clinton, and that he was looking into third party options. I'm gonna try to do some stalking to track it down.

[rezski44]

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 6:43 AM, BackseatMom said:

I agree that I find fundie cherry picking distasteful.

However, millions of people (most of whom are not dangerous fundamentalists, just regular Muslims or Jews) still keep kosher or halal and don't eat those things. Its a lot more complicated than ancient food storage practices. Even from an archeological standpoint and not a religious one, those dismissive, pat answers don't hold up to the evidence. They are too simplistic.

Its actually done to set themselves apart. There are something like 600 rules for Orthodox Jews to follow from the Talmud.

[endsidehugs28]

On 10/29/2016 at 9:43 AM, BackseatMom said:

I agree that I find fundie cherry picking distasteful.

However, millions of people (most of whom are not dangerous fundamentalists, just regular Muslims or Jews) still keep kosher or halal and don't eat those things. Its a lot more complicated than ancient food storage practices. Even from an archeological standpoint and not a religious one, those dismissive, pat answers don't hold up to the evidence. They are too simplistic.

Long-time lurker. I made an account specifically to comment on this kashrut discussion. 

I'm Jewish and I keep kosher. It angers me to no end that the Duggars pull this funny business with pork. First of all, I find it appropriative. Secondly, if you claim to believe that the bible is the word of G-d and then pick one tiny part of keeping kosher and discredit all the rest of the laws on kashrut, are you trying to say not all of G-d's words count? Why does only this tiny fragment of kashrut matter?

If Gothardites don't want to eat pork because of the dietary laws written in the Torah, then they also shouldn't mix meat with milk. They should buy kosher meat killed by a kosher butcher. They should follow all rules of kashrut and not just one.

Keeping kosher is a pretty complicated practice. It's not just about pork. Kashrut is just as much about morality and ethical treatment as it is about animal cleanliness. We kill animals in a certain way so that their death is quick and painless and they do not suffer. We separate meat and milk so that (in a general sense) you do not eat an animal in its mother's blood. We drain animals of all blood so as not to eat it because blood is seen as the physical embodiment of a being's life and spirit, and it is forbidden in Judaism to consume blood because it is seen as a form of destruction or disrespect for another being's (albeit an animal) soul or life.

Furthermore, by keeping kosher, we are reminded multiple times per day that we are different. The rest of the world might live in a way that is easier or simpler or seems more logical to them, but being a Jew means not always living life in the way that's easiest.

This, for me, is the biggest reason to keep kosher. My ancestors were murdered simply because they were Jews. My great-great-grandfather was beheaded by the Cossacks while taking a Shabbat walk with my great-grandfather. He was killed because he was visibly Jewish. This was half a century before the Holocaust, and I'm guessing I don't need to remind anyone what happened to the parts of my family left in Europe then. Today, I am lucky enough to live in a country where I can be Jewish and it won't cost me my life. Who am I to say, "No, I like the taste of bacon," or "I'd rather not have to buy multiple sets of dishes and silverware, so no thanks."  I finally have the freedom to practice my religion when so much of my family didn't, so every time I eat, it is a reminder to me of how lucky I am. 

It makes zero sense to me that any Christian would keep kosher. Kashrut played a large role in the early separation of the church from Judaism. One of Paul's major pillars of belief was that gentile converts to Jewish Christianity did not need to follow Jewish dietary laws (or get circumcised) in order to be saved. As the centuries passed, the early church officially rejected many Jewish beliefs in order to separate itself as a new religion, and rejected kashrut was one of these practices. It was a sign to them that they were no longer Jewish just as keeping kosher is a reminder to Jews of who we are. Why, then, some fundamentalist cult in the 20th century would decide that one PART of kashrut continues to apply to them mystifies me.

It is incredibly hypocritical for them to refuse to eat pork but continue to break all other rules of kashrut, and as a Jew, it is absolutely infuriating to watch. 

 

[NewOrleansLady]

Thank you for the insightful  post.   If people would just talk to each other so many misconceptions could be shattered.

[marmalade]

A friend just reminded me that the Duggars ate bangers and mash as well as toad in a hole when they were in London. She's Irish and tells me that these dishes are made with PORK sausage. 

They have no clue, really, other than humblebragging about eating turkey bacon (several times) on the show and reminding us that they don't eat pork. 

I'm not sure about their stance on shellfish; their palettes are so undeveloped that I doubt that it's ever been an issue for them. I do remember them sneering at a breakfast fish in Japan. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

Thank you for your very informative post, endsidehugs28. If eating blood is not allowed in Judaism, does that mean steak must be cooked more than medium rare?

As for no pork, I know many secular people who don't eat pork for other reasons. Canada's worst serial killer was a pig farmer, who preyed on vulnerable women, many were addicted and involved in the sex trade. When he was finally caught, the DNA of many missing women were found on his farm. It is believed that he may have fed human remains to the pigs. I work at a women's center on the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver, and many of our clients had ties to the missing women. We do not serve pork products for this reason.

[endsidehugs28]

10 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

Thank you for your very informative post, endsidehugs28. If eating blood is not allowed in Judaism, does that mean steak must be cooked more than medium rare?

 

If you're eating kosher meat, it goes through a process of salting and rinsing within 72 hours after it's killed in order to drain out all the blood. Anything that's left over after that process is considered kosher, so you can eat rare steak all you want (although I personally prefer steaks medium, but that's just because I'm paranoid about foodborne illnesses). 

People who don't want to eat pork for personal reasons are fine in my book. I only get upset when Christians say they don't eat pork because it says not to in the Torah. It also says not to eat other foods and not to eat foods cooked or killed in certain ways, so why does only one rule apply? And considering the very early church rejected teachings on kashrut, I'm just like  on that reasoning.  

 

[Buzzard]

12 hours ago, endsidehugs28 said:

I'm Jewish and I keep kosher. It angers me to no end that the Duggars pull this funny business with pork. First of all, I find it appropriative.

The Duggars are the masters of appropriation.  They wear a star of David on occasion and a menorah has been seen in the house of Smuggles.  I wouldnt be shocked if they have a mezuzah on some of their doors.

[JMO]

@marmalade I recently watched the Japanese breakfast episode.  (I was cruising the TLC Youtube channel). They were served shellfish(looked like small clams?) and talked about how much Jordan loved them and ate them all. Others didn't eat them out of disgust/fear of trying something new. 

 BTW Mich's face is awesome in the still frame.  

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, endsidehugs28 said:

If you're eating kosher meat, it goes through a process of salting and rinsing within 72 hours after it's killed in order to drain out all the blood. Anything that's left over after that process is considered kosher, so you can eat rare steak all you want (although I personally prefer steaks medium, but that's just because I'm paranoid about foodborne illnesses). 

People who don't want to eat pork for personal reasons are fine in my book. I only get upset when Christians say they don't eat pork because it says not to in the Torah. It also says not to eat other foods and not to eat foods cooked or killed in certain ways, so why does only one rule apply? And considering the very early church rejected teachings on kashrut, I'm just like  on that reasoning.  

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain all this. I'm not Jewish (raised Catholic) so I pretty much know the bare basics of what it means to live kosher - like no pork, no shellfish, and separating dairy from meat. Your posts were really interesting to read through. 

[VixenToast]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

@marmalade I recently watched the Japanese breakfast episode.  (I was cruising the TLC Youtube channel). They were served shellfish(looked like small clams?) and talked about how much Jordan loved them and ate them all. Others didn't eat them out of disgust/fear of trying something new. 

 BTW Mich's face is awesome in the still frame.  

As a sushi enthusiast, I'm so jealous they got to do this. And their attitude is so superior. They act soooooo excited about something when their face clearly tells another story.  Yeah, you go Jordyn. I hope they had masago or tibuko (fish eggs) because I bet she would have enjoyed them (taste, texture, color.)

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

7 hours ago, Buzzard said:

The Duggars are the masters of appropriation.  They wear a star of David on occasion and a menorah has been seen in the house of Smuggles.  I wouldnt be shocked if they have a mezuzah on some of their doors.

It's a blessing that they don't celebrate Halloween.

[endsidehugs28]

9 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Thank you for taking the time to explain all this. I'm not Jewish (raised Catholic) so I pretty much know the bare basics of what it means to live kosher - like no pork, no shellfish, and separating dairy from meat. Your posts were really interesting to read through. 

Glad to hear it. I enjoy learning about other cultures and religions, so I'm always glad to teach others about mine. 

[Chickenbutt]

@endsidehugs28May I ask a question? I understand that meat has to be from a certain part of the animal? No meat close to the spinal cord, I believe. The famous commercial, kosher hot dogs....no if ands or butts. Are there rules about the location of the source of meat? Thank you.

[HarryPotterFan]

17 hours ago, Buzzard said:

The Duggars are the masters of appropriation.  They wear a star of David on occasion and a menorah has been seen in the house of Smuggles.  I wouldnt be shocked if they have a mezuzah on some of their doors.

As a Jew this has pissed me off so much for years. Especially with their attitude towards anyone who isn't of their religion. I was so damn glad when Derick gave Jill a heart necklace, which made her stop wearing the Star of David. 

I'm surprised they haven't started appropriating the chuppah, which I've seen people do. 

[nastyhobbitses]

On 10/30/2016 at 10:25 PM, marmalade said:

A friend just reminded me that the Duggars ate bangers and mash as well as toad in a hole when they were in London. She's Irish and tells me that these dishes are made with PORK sausage. 

They have no clue, really, other than humblebragging about eating turkey bacon (several times) on the show and reminding us that they don't eat pork. 

I'm not sure about their stance on shellfish; their palettes are so undeveloped that I doubt that it's ever been an issue for them. I do remember them sneering at a breakfast fish in Japan. 

So basically they're like those people who will claim to have (not ACTUALLY have) special snowflake dietary restrictions, but unlike people who actually have religious, ethical, or medical dietary restrictions, don't bother to read the ingredient list if the food they don't like isn't a glaringly obvious component.

Also, them sneering at the food in Japan made me so angry. You're on a vacation that a large section of your country can only dream of taking, in a country steeped in thousands of years of history and cultural development, being offered a unique and delicious cuisine, and you're sneering at it like petulant, racist children. If they'd simply said "no thanks" because of an aversion to shellfish (so why the fuck would you order that particular spread or not inform the chef beforehand and waste all that perfectly good food...), that would have been fine, but nope.

[alba]

I think TLC chose the shellfish because it makes "good TV". Personally, I can't stand shellfish or seafood in general, though I don't mind cooked fish, so if I went to Japan I would avoid ordering those dishes (and I'd do research so I could do so effectively).