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Rembis Fam: 11 kids, CPS, antivax, homeschool, CPS


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9 hours ago, Childless said:

"Both sides smelled bad" certainly sounds like you think CPS was partly in the wrong here.  This isn't a case of a neighbour being pissed off and calling in a bogus complaint to CPS.  There were multiple calls.  Usually when several people call in, there's an issue.  CPS is required by state law to investigate every complaint, but rarely pulls kids from a home without reason.  The kids were not even pulled from this home initially.  It wasn't until the parents fled that things escalated.  If they had cooperated with CPS, the kids probably would have stayed put while they got the help they so obviously needed.  There's nothing here that makes CPS smell bad.

My sister has gotten a CPS visit.  There was nothing wrong, but a complaint had been made due to an overheard comment by her teenager.  They cooperated fully, CPS investigated and found nothing wrong and it was case closed.  No big deal.  She was even glad they came.  It was an hour of wasted time, but she was happy that they took calls seriously, because while there was nothing to investigate at her house, the next call may save a child's life.  She thought that was worth an hour of her time.

My Mom had a CPS visit when I was kid. There was a daycare worker who reported my Mom because I told the daycare worker my Mom had spanked me when prompted. I was 5 or so at the time, and this was the late 1980s, early 1990s when mandatory reporting became a thing and some daycare workers and teachers were actually asking kids direct questions about whether or not they were being abused, and even praising them for giving the answers they wanted to hear. 

(Look at the Martensville Satanic Sex Scandal on Wikipedia for more information) 

My Mom also cooperated fully. I believe a Social Worker even asked me a couple of questions *gasp* ALONE!

The complaint was dismissed and that was that.

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I'm surprised this lady hasn't become best friends with NN yet, or at least posted on her anti-CPS blog. I could see them doing great things together. Snort.

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QF parents love to repeat their line about "God not giving them more blessing than they can handle."

What gives for families like this then?

Is God cursing them with children because they are doing the Bible wrong?

Is Satan acting through the CPS crisis actors and local media to convince us that big families aren't always the best option?

Please, inquiring minds want to know!

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1 minute ago, RosaLuxcyborg said:

QF parents love to repeat their line about "God not giving them more blessing than they can handle."

What gives for families like this then?

Is God cursing them with children because they are doing the Bible wrong?

Is Satan acting through the CPS crisis actors and local media to convince us that big families aren't always the best option?

Please, inquiring minds want to know!

No, God is giving them blessings and the ebil government (which is a tool of Satan designed to infringe upon our God Given Rights) is causing trouble. Satan knows how Godly and Righteous they are, and is trying to get them to stray from the path of the Lord.

Satan has already led us worldly folk from the Righteous path, so they hope that by sharing their story with us, we will see the errors of our ways and give up our jobs and birth control. Give up our pants and our bottles of wine after a long day, and go back to doing exactly what a man tells us to do.

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11 hours ago, feministxtian said:

what I said was that BOTH sides smelled bad. I got caught in a bullshit CPS case long ago...all because my neighbors were pissed that my kids were outside being noisy. It happens. 

If you go back and re-read what I said, I said that something doesn't add up and I wasn't going to give CPS a free pass on it. I also stated that there was some FUCKED UP SHIT GOING ON ALL AROUND. 

I never said I thought CPS was in the wrong. Now...I'm going to stop before I get really ugly. Its 2am and i've been studying for a final exam since 8pm. 

 

What exactly could CPS have done other than remove the children?

They received serious allegations of abuse and neglect regarding this family from several sources, and the family has a history of allegations in two other states. The family has already demonstrated multiple times that they are not willing to follow a correction plan, and appear to have fled their jurisdiction with the children on at least three occasions rather than changing their parenting behavior.

Look, I work in children's mental health, so I'm well aware that CPS drops the ball sometimes. But we're not talking about other cases. We're talking about this situation with this family and these children.

So regarding this situation, what could CPS have done differently with multiple serious allegations against a flight risk family? Not a rhetorical question; I'd love an actual answer.

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These people are terrible, they need to start doing their job as a parent and looking after their kids.

Its funny how every time a parent says that CPS took their kids because they are Christian/homeschool/don't vaccinate, it is usually because they don't feed their kids, beat them, don't get medical care when they are sick and they probably don't have beds, clean clothes or a house that doesn't smell of shit. Social workers are not evil baby snatchers, they want families to stay together and do not like taking children away. There are going to be a few terrible ones who might make things up, or rush into things too fast, but most of the time, if you get your kids taken away, its because you majorly fucked up as a parent.

 

I think there needs to be a national database of children who have has CPS involved (in a serious way, not one visit because of someone with a grudge, which ended in them saying there was no concern). They shouldn't have been able to get away so easily. Their earliest investigation was in 2001, of an unsupervised toddler eating from the trash. They have been investigated several times, in several states, and the children have been removed previously. How are the states so poorly coordinating with eachother? This is putting children at risk. The states should communicate with eachother, and notifying eachother when a child with a case currently open moves to a different state, and should be able to check with eachother when a report is made, to see if there are any previous reports or investigations. I also think that children who have had CPS involved due to abuse or neglect (or live with a sex offender, or someone who has been previously convicted of abusing children) should no longer be allowed to homeschool-it is too easy for a homeschooled kid to fly under the radar.

 

He wants to do whatever is necessary to get them back? What about cooperate with CPS instead of running away. Stop doing whatever is causing them to scream like that instead of cover it up with music so the neighbours don't hear. Feed the children enough so that they are not eating from the trash. Ensure all of the children have beds, so the five year old doesn't have to sleep in a box in the closet. Keep the house clean, give the children an education.

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@Mercer 

I read two different articles giving two totally opposed points of view. Either way...I think there's something funny with the whole deal. I'm not a fan of CPS...neither am I a fan of fundies. 

I hope that the full story is figured out and the kids get what they need. 

My biggest objection to removing the children is separating them. To be honest, I trust most of those social workers about as far as I can throw them. And that's after dealing with them when I was trying to get help for my son...their solution was to force him on a variety of psychiatric medications that ended up physically damaging him and threatening jail for me if he didn't take them even after I showed the test results that showed that the medications had damaged him. 

So...CPS doesn't get a free pass from me. 

Then there's the CPS types who are continuing to force children to visit with their convicted pedophile father. 

 

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10 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

@Mercer 

I read two different articles giving two totally opposed points of view. Either way...I think there's something funny with the whole deal. I'm not a fan of CPS...neither am I a fan of fundies. 

I hope that the full story is figured out and the kids get what they need. 

My biggest objection to removing the children is separating them. To be honest, I trust most of those social workers about as far as I can throw them. And that's after dealing with them when I was trying to get help for my son...their solution was to force him on a variety of psychiatric medications that ended up physically damaging him and threatening jail for me if he didn't take them even after I showed the test results that showed that the medications had damaged him. 

So...CPS doesn't get a free pass from me. 

But my question wasn't what you dislike about CPS or why removal is unfortunate, it was What could CPS actually have done differently in this situation?

Of course removal is not a positive thing, and I hope the parents do what they need to so they can get their kids home as soon as possible.

Your own situation sounds like a nightmare indeed, and I certainly feel sympathy for what you and your son went through - but your situation isn't the same as the situation in question, and the facts aren't interchangeable.

You keep saying you don't give CPS a "free pass," but I'm still not clear on exactly why you feel they would need a pass for fulfilling their function in this case.

So I will ask again... what exactly do you feel CPS should have done instead regarding this family? If you disagree with their solution, what solution would have been better and still safeguarded the kids?

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4 minutes ago, Mercer said:

So I will ask again... what exactly do you feel CPS should have done instead regarding this family? If you disagree with their solution, what solution would have been better and still safeguarded the kids?

First...kids should not have been taken with what seems to be no warning (which is CPS modus operandi). Second, it seems that both sides need to come back to the kids. Third...why weren't there previous CPS visits prior to the children's removal? 

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10 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

First...kids should not have been taken with what seems to be no warning (which is CPS modus operandi). Second, it seems that both sides need to come back to the kids. Third...why weren't there previous CPS visits prior to the children's removal? 

...They had sufficient warning that by their own admission they were able to flee to Colorado...? 

Not quite sure I see how more CPS visits would have helped in this case since (again by their own statement) they felt fleeing the jurisdiction was the appropriate response to an inquiry, but thanks for answering even if we still have a difference of opinion. :)

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36 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

First...kids should not have been taken with what seems to be no warning (which is CPS modus operandi). Second, it seems that both sides need to come back to the kids. Third...why weren't there previous CPS visits prior to the children's removal? 

The last two times the family was warned, they fled the state.

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What's with all the prayer and fasting sessions on their facebook page?  And at IHOPKC, which I interpreted as the International House of Pancakes in Kansas City, which would be a pretty stupid place to fast.  (It's the International House of Prayer)

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21 minutes ago, JMarie said:

What's with all the prayer and fasting sessions on their facebook page?  And at IHOPKC, which I interpreted as the International House of Pancakes in Kansas City, which would be a pretty stupid place to fast.  (It's the International House of Prayer)

Wow, the family is making some questionable friends. :pb_eek:

IHOPKC is incredibly controversial. It has been described as a "cult" numerous times, had a very questionable intern suicide that may have been a murder - a case which included sexual assault allegations - and was one of the groups featured in the documentary God Loves Uganda about the violence incited in that nation by Christian missionaries.

If the parents are serious about getting their kids back, they need to really rethink some of their associations. They may be just grasping at any straw at this point, but some straws will do more harm than good.

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1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

First...kids should not have been taken with what seems to be no warning (which is CPS modus operandi). Second, it seems that both sides need to come back to the kids. Third...why weren't there previous CPS visits prior to the children's removal? 

These people have a history of moving state when CPS become involved. If they had warning, they would have ran away with the kids, and due to how poorly coordinated the states are, they would have gotten away with it. If someone has a history of doing that, they do not deserve a warning. The last few times were the previous warnings.

 

Also I would imagine if things were emergency level of bad, like very severe abuse, they wouldn't let the kids live another day like that and would put measures in place to protect them that same day. I have no idea about how things work in their state though, but it could be a possibility.

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5 hours ago, imokit said:

I wish I could give this more likes.  CPS needs to investigate everything, and if you're polite and non defensive you'll appreciate that in order to catch the abuse & neglect they need to ask questions of good parents too.  If you're innocent and care about kids, you'll appreciate the fact that these investigations save lives.

 

Also with regards to allegations that CPS is more likely to remove homeschooled kids & kids who don't see conventional medical practitioners from families.  There's a reason for that.  A kid attending school/regular doctors appointment has people keeping an eye on him/her.  Changes to weight, poor clothing & hygiene, big bruises, hunger, behaviour changes will be noted by schools and flagged up to social services.  Likewise if the child misses/stops attending school it gets noted.  Thus there is a safety net which allows the child to stay in the home longer especially in borderline cases.  A homeschool kid has no one noticing these things, and could theoretically die without anyone knowing.

Yet, if a child is being severely neglected and dies, people complain that CPS didn't do enough to protect that child.

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2 hours ago, ILoveJellybeans said:

Also I would imagine if things were emergency level of bad, like very severe abuse, they wouldn't let the kids live another day like that and would put measures in place to protect them that same day. I have no idea about how things work in their state though, but it could be a possibility.

As far as I know, every state allows for the immediate removal of a child who is in imminent danger of harm.

Of course, removal is not necessarily permanent. In most situations, the parent is offered a case plan and the children will be returned if the case plan is successfully completed.

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On 9/19/2016 at 8:38 AM, RosaLuxcyborg said:

and they actually make their own homemade deodorant or use the Tom's of Maine brand.

Oh, hey, I think we just figured out where that foul odor is coming from....

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On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 8:45 AM, MakeitSew said:

I will never understand how some parents who come under the investigation of CPS think it is somehow a better idea to flee. It seems that following basic, humane guidelines in the provision for and care of your children should be a priority to parents. Why not just comply? It's so much easier and less traumatic for the children. If you have to buy a few beds, buy a few beds. If you have over 1000 dollars a month in food stamps, at least stock your pantry with some basic stuff that the kids can eat so they don't have to forage in trash bins. Clean your house. A messy house I can understand. 11 kids? Sure. But a foul smelling house? Where are those smells coming from?

What blows my mind is that CPS has taken these kids (for what appears to be good reason) yet the Nauglers in Kentucky, whose kids do not have beds, safely stored or prepared food, or even running water are free to run wild and barefoot through their trashy "wilderness" and CPS doesn't seem to bat an eye. 

For a few reasons in my uneducated opinion. Cps doesn't have enough foster homes for kids in foster care. Second the older the kid the harder to place. Sometimes cps does trial discharge and monitors the family.  Sometimes kids fall through the cracks.

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7 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

For a few reasons in my uneducated opinion. Cps doesn't have enough foster homes for kids in foster care. Second the older the kid the harder to place. Sometimes cps does trial discharge and monitors the family.  Sometimes kids fall through the cracks.

Definitely not enough foster homes. Definitely the older children are harder to place - that's why they often end up in open custody facilities (they don't end up in detention facilities unless they themselves have done something). 

In addition, the goal of CPS is family reuninification. In the case of the Naugs, or the Rembis' they want to keep as many of the children together as possible. With a family of this size, it becomes very difficult to keep all the children together, or even more than a couple of them together. 

It becomes even harder to keep the kids together when some of them have educational deficits which can lead to poor behaviour. 

 

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15 hours ago, feministxtian said:

First...kids should not have been taken with what seems to be no warning (which is CPS modus operandi). Second, it seems that both sides need to come back to the kids. Third...why weren't there previous CPS visits prior to the children's removal? 

They were given a warning.  The initial inquiry and opening of an official investigation.  They took the kids and fled to Colorado.  So, the state removed the kids from the home until the investigation is complete.  Should they have just ignored the fact that the parents ran?  Innocent people don't usually flee.  If they are indeed abusing and neglecting the children and one or more of them die, then you'd be railing at CPS for not tracking the family down and removing the kids before they were able to kill them.  CPS cannot win no matter what they do.  At least this way, the childrens' safety is assured.

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Oh boy, y'all. I already spent too much time in this rabbit hole.

After reading the Medical Kidnap article (didn't come across any more reliable sources), I want to shout from the rooftops that caseworker or CPS/DHS/etc. worker IS NOT synonymous with social worker. In Texas, all that is required to be a caseworker is a Bachelor's degree in any discipline. The majority of caseworkers are NOT social workers.

Second, I've seen in another case parents wringing their hands over CPS immediately filing for termination. The language clearly says, however, that termination will be sought if reunification is unsuccessful. This is in every original petition I've ever seen, however there is a marathon of a process before rights can actually be terminated.

The parents state that several of their children were sexually abused when they were taken into care a few years ago (they remained in care only two days or so). Although I still believe that fleeing is absolutely the worst response to an investigation, that fact gives me a little more perspective on their decision.

Anyway, these cases are complex, and I always wish I could analyze the case with all of the information from both sides. But all I can do is roll my eyes at biased and logically flawed Medical Kidnap articles.

And an interesting sidebar: this article about the Rembis family filing a fair housing complaint. They lived in Michigan at the time; they do seem to move around a lot.

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On September 20, 2016 at 4:43 PM, feministxtian said:

I read two different articles giving two totally opposed points of view.

I do just want to point out that if all you read were the links shared on this thread, then one was from ABC news...and the other was from a notably anti-CPS "propaganda site", if you will. ABC's motto is See The Whole Picture and the organization is held up to at least some degree of journalistic integrity and is expected to have accurate sources. Medical Kidnap, however, is peppered with grandiose claims substantiated with little more than personal anecdotes, questionable references, and misinterpreted data attempted to be twisted from the opposing side. Does CPS screw up? I have no doubt. However, the MK site is on a unilateral crusade against the child protective profession, calling anti-abuse pediatricians an "ethically bankrupt profession". They have no interest in fairness or objectivity to the opposing side while disagreeing. So, of course they were two opposing points of view. 

No matter where you go on the internet, you'll find whatever you're looking for. As a reader you have to be able to discern the credible sources. After my analysis of the site, I think it's fair to say that Medical Kidnap is not a credible source, especially comparatively. This is why I'm not hurrying to lend any credence to what was said there.

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On 9/20/2016 at 3:28 PM, ILoveJellybeans said:

They have been investigated several times, in several states, and the children have been removed previously. How are the states so poorly coordinating with eachother?

The original article discusses this.  States do not coordinate and when a family flees to another state, CPS has to track them down however they can. 

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I really hope this family is taking concrete steps to work their plan and get their kids home, and not just holding prayer vigils and posting on Facebook about how awful CPS is. If not, the clock is ticking, and the outcome may not be what they want.

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