More Info on Doug Wilson, Pedophile Enabler

[Black Aliss]

Wait. This is an actual published book? I'm trying to place the genre, and all I can come up with is Christian Snuff Porn.

[Ozlsn]

11 hours ago, Hane said:

I meant to type “nineteenth *century* theology.” The error was mine, not Dougie’s. Ace’s study of this theology is his hobby, not his job—he’s a 20-year-old college student who works part time at a recycling center.

Heh, I was thinking of it like Babylon-5: the previous 18 theologies were destroyed, but the *19th* theology stands...

So Acehole is basically a black and white thinker who has converted to the One True Faith and has all the answers? Figures.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Ozlsn

[katilac]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:00 PM, Hane said:

She was willowy without being skinny, and she managed to be well-proportioned without being in any way a hazard or public nuisance.   

 Because someone born in 2004 would know the lyrics of “Mustang Sally.”

Well-proportioned without being in any way a hazard or public nuisance? Wtf does that mean? Because it sounds like you should have good-sized boobs, but not TOO big, because that automatically makes you a slut. Goldilocks boobs. 

Should a good Christian boy be referencing the lyrics to "Mustang Sally" regardless of when he was born? Shocking, 

[hollyfeller]

38 minutes ago, katilac said:

Well-proportioned without being in any way a hazard or public nuisance? Wtf does that mean? Because it sounds like you should have good-sized boobs, but not TOO big, because that automatically makes you a slut. Goldilocks boobs. 

Should a good Christian boy be referencing the lyrics to "Mustang Sally" regardless of when he was born? Shocking, 

Woman: Exists with large breasts or hips

Men: "What a nuisance."

[Petronella]

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

Hi, friends!  I'm summarizing Doug Wilson's latest pile of dreck so you don't have to. This precis is long, because the freaking book is. It took considerable labor to chip through the author's overblown verbosity to winnow out the point.

Wow, wow! I am agog. Thank you, Hane!

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

“The red states got a lot redder, and the blue states got a lot poorer.” (Dougie is underestimating the amount of revenue generated by places like California and New York.)

I know the main horror is his view of sex, but this really threw me. I mean, I know that die-hard right-wingers see the world in a profoundly different way from the rest of us, but this is just ??? I thought liberals were classified as elitist city-folk, out of touch with salt-of-the-earth rural conservatives, right? So how does Doug make the leap to all these supposed elitists being the ones to suffer financially? It doesn't make sense. Not to mention that it would be the blue states selling pot and making sex-bots, so...money, right?

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

Everyone stop and take a hit of your favorite anti-nausea remedy, because here comes that Male Gaze description we all love seeing so much: “Stephanie had jet black hair, cut in a page boy style, and a spray of freckles across her nose. She was willowy without being skinny, and she managed to be well-proportioned without being in any way a hazard or public nuisance. She was a pretty girl, but there are different kinds of pretty girls in this world of ours. Some women are just plain gorgeous, and they don’t really know how to turn it off, but Stephanie was not like that. She was entirely secure without any make-up, as was routinely described as ‘that pretty girl.’ But whenever she decided to put on the Ritz, the effect was to summon up an oceanic goddess of beauty de profundis. And if she smiled at anything male while done up like that, he would probably be in the ICU for at least a couple of days.”

OH MY LORD. I hate this so much. Hate. It.

Once you get what male gaze is it's just enraging.

Doesn't this PERSON who is being described deserve more than a listing and rating of her sexual attributes??? **RAGE**

And if the point of view character here is her father isn't it just really odd that he would be evaluating her that way?

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

Benson asks his wife to make a platter of cookies to take over. (Insert stabbing sounds here.)

I laughed so hard at this. Make the cookies yourself, Benson, if you think that's important. Oh, it's not important enough to waste your time on? THEN MAYBE YOUR WIFE DOESN'T WANT TO EITHER.

(Caveat: OF COURSE it's normal and sensible that couples divide up recurring family jobs, and maybe she loves baking and has the time. But you know Doug Wilson--and Benson--have put this on her exclusively because of her ovaries. It's just so high-handed.)

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

In the house, Steve introduces his wife, Sally—a life-sized late-model sex android.

Okay, I was not expecting this.

If the author was coming at the topic with genuine curiosity instead of black-and-white teachiness, this could have been interesting.

In the "Christian bookstore" context, I'm grossed out by it. I've read other Christian books that do something similar: take a titillating concept and make it okay for their readers to indulge in reading by making it a book about how bad that thing is. At the same time, they condemn any secular books that contain such elements, even if the book makes profound moral points, just for not having the magic mention of "Jesus Jesus Jesus" that makes it okay.

In my evangelical days, I remember a Christian radio host Bob Larson wrote a TERRIBLE Christian novel called Dead Air. It depicts the awful, tragic Satanic panic of the eighties as if it were based on real Satanism and casts a radio host as the hero (naturally), saving children. One scene included a young child or several children going around a circle of Satanist adults giving blowjobs. AND THIS WAS SOLD IN CHRISTIAN BOOKSTORES.

Look, I'm not a pearl-clutcher about books or art. I read, appreciate, and even write books that contain scenes that are tragic, heartbreaking, dark. But the hypocrisy of the way they preach against dirtying one's mind with worldly literature and then promote dreck like this as a somehow superior and specifically purer alternative is gross.

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

They or He?

Interesting. I think the "they" controversy in the book is whether Sally counts as a person, so whether "they" (plural) are coming to dinner, or just him. Do I have that right? Obviously the pronoun controversy in the real world is over using "they" as a gender neutral singular versus forcing he or she on someone who doesn't want them. It's just surprising to see Wilson using the same pronoun that has real-world controversy in a different-but-similar controversy. Does the gender-neutral "they" controversy also exist in the world of the book? This isn't bad; it just caught my eye.

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

Steve comes over and asks Ace to come over and look in on Sally while he goes on an errand, because she feels lonely and frightened in the new city....Ace finds Sally, blindfolded and topless, propped up on the bed in the master bedroom.

Uh, was this a setup? Was Steve trying to seduce Ace to have sex with Sally? Or is this just how Sally relaxes when she's lonely and frightened in the new city? Hane, is it clear?

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 AM, Hane said:

“Asahel, I know I can depend on you. What would be the right thing to do?” Ace responds, “You sure you want me to do the right thing?” and Steve says yes. This ridiculous request sets up the ridiculous plot line of the story.

Okay, I really want to know how we're meant to assume Steve takes this. Ace obviously means it as "are you giving me permission to destroy her?" But what does Steve think he means? If I asked someone to do me a favor and they VERY SERIOUSLY asked if I was SURE I WANT THEM TO DO THE RIGHT THING, I would think they were creepy as hell and retract my request. Is it clear in what way Steve is misunderstanding Ace's question? What did he think Ace was going to do? (Was it in fact a setup seduction, as the position he left Sally in would suggest? Or is she more physically autonomous and doesn't need to be carried or put in position?)

9 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Acehole

Hahahahahaha, awesome!

[Petronella]

As far as I can tell, this premise is of the “slippery slope caused by allowing gay marriage” type (rather than the more interesting “what would a robot have to do to be considered self-conscious and human?” type).

In that light, this meme seems appropriate:

[Howl]

The "Twitter for Android" at the bottom of the tweet seems especially apropos for this discussion! 

[Xan]

The "hit in the mouth by a brick" bit really bothers me.  That's the sort of thing that I'd read and then close the book and, possibly, toss it in the trash.  

I don't understand how the sex android "feels lonely and frightened in a new city".  She's an android.  Wouldn't she be programmed for adaptation to new cities?  And wouldn't the "lonely and frightened" just be a program that could be reversed when needed?  Methink Dougie is playing fast and loose with the whole android idea.

I popped over to look at his other writings on Amazon.  My goodness!  He's a wordy little shit.  In Evangellyfish, there's a preview and he has already referred to Biblical cities and stories that I'd need to look up.  Least he could do would be add footnotes.  And he loves adverbs.  His protagonist "clumped dejectedly" and put his truck in gear "savagely".  He makes his adverbs do the heavy lifting.

Not surprisingly, the book quickly veers into sex.  The guy (who I suppose will be the antagonist) is a sexual predator.  

He's not a terrible writer.  He does grab your interest.  It's just that his opinions are so usual and expected.  There's no real tension when he telegraphs everything.  Real people aren't so black and white.  

I can't fathom why he decided to go with "Hardwick" as the last name.  Isn't that a bit too on-the-nose for a book about a sex android?  Sorry.  I'll find my own way to the prayer closet, thanks.

[Cults-r-us]

Again I say: Read the reviews on Goodreads and Amazon? Who are these people who love this book?

[katilac]

7 hours ago, Petronella said:

I've read other Christian books that do something similar: take a titillating concept and make it okay for their readers to indulge in reading by making it a book about how bad that thing is. At the same time, they condemn any secular books that contain such elements, even if the book makes profound moral points, just for not having the magic mention of "Jesus Jesus Jesus" that makes it okay.

In my evangelical days, I remember a Christian radio host Bob Larson wrote a TERRIBLE Christian novel called Dead Air. It depicts the awful, tragic Satanic panic of the eighties as if it were based on real Satanism and casts a radio host as the hero (naturally), saving children. One scene included a young child or several children going around a circle of Satanist adults giving blowjobs. AND THIS WAS SOLD IN CHRISTIAN BOOKSTORES.

Look, I'm not a pearl-clutcher about books or art. I read, appreciate, and even write books that contain scenes that are tragic, heartbreaking, dark. But the hypocrisy of the way they preach against dirtying one's mind with worldly literature and then promote dreck like this as a somehow superior and specifically purer alternative is gross.

Yes, it's the way they can read about sex without feeling guilty. I was trying to nail down that thought but couldn't quite get there. It's ironic that this exercise in justification leads them to reading darker and pervy-er stuff than they probably would if they just read mainstream books!

It's akin to the people who claim they download child porn only in an effort to 'bring down' the website. Not that extreme, of course, but the same general idea: you are looking at vile images because you want to, you are reading about sex androids because you want to. 

[Black Aliss]

I'm guessing Sally is a bot with a very high sex drive, or maybe she's like one of those electric bikes where you can recharge the battery by pedaling hard. By doing the right thing, Steve expects Ace to service her while he's gone.

What IS clear is that DPIAT is one sadistic SOB, in addition to being a pervert and a rapist.

 

24 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

Again I say: Read the reviews on Goodreads and Amazon? Who are these people who love this book?

Incels, mostly. I remember a Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas some years ago where one company was demoing their sex-bot. Attendees couldn't actually have sexy-time with it on the convention floor, of course, so they resorted to hitting and punching it, until it had to be removed before someone broke it.

[MamaJunebug]

8 hours ago, Petronella said:

As far as I can tell, this premise is of the “slippery slope caused by allowing gay marriage” type (rather than the more interesting “what would a robot have to do to be considered self-conscious and human?” type).

In that light, this meme seems appropriate:

Very seldom, I’ll listen to a radio wing nut who happens to be Lutheran and who has had guests at least intimate the first part of this if not say it out loud: I think  clearly recall one nan (of course) saying “slippery slope to marrying a toaster.”

Should I hear it again, I have this saved as an image and will be dispatching it to the hist’s social media. I’m doing it for the girls ... a lovely married pair of young women who are raising their family together. Et. al. 

[Petronella]

45 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

What IS clear is that DPIAT is one sadistic SOB, in addition to being a pervert and a rapist.

This is Doug Wilson, a different gross patriarch from Doug Phillips Who Is A Tool.

47 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

Incels, mostly.

I don’t think so. I’m betting it’s the Zondervan bookstore crowd. (Do Zondervan bookstores still exist? I’ve been away from America for a while...

11 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Should I hear it again, I have this saved as an image and will be dispatching it to the hist’s social media.

It’s a good one, isn’t it! Really crystallized the issue for me.

[Howl]

8 hours ago, Petronella said:

And if the point of view character here is her father isn't it just really odd that he would be evaluating her that way?

OOOOOh, ICK, if so, that is some Trump/Ivanka level shite. 

But yes, Doug Wilson could have just written a word-smithy essay on the topic of what it means to be human (like he actually knows) and not inflicted his sexual fantasies on unsuspecting readers. 

It's also important to remember that Doug Wilson never bothers to hike who he really is -- a pedophile enabler, a rank misogynist, a control freak, a sadist (he enjoys humiliating people in writing and presumably in person), among other attributes and a Machiavellian a**hole of the highest order. 

[Black Aliss]

1 minute ago, Petronella said:

This is Doug Wilson, a different gross patriarch from Doug Phillips Who Is A Tool.

oops, my bad. One sick pervo fundy is rather like another.

 

[Black Aliss]

5 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

Again I say: Read the reviews on Goodreads and Amazon? Who are these people who love this book?

Well, one reviewer who goes by "Donny" mentions the "well fleshed out characters", which made my inner 12 YO boy giggle, after having read Hane's excerpted descriptions of the women in the novel. Or, as one 5 star reviewer said, "I came to the book having read the first chapter and wondering how folks had the ability to delineate from it that this novel was the utmost in filth. " But, then, that reviewer expressed surprise that such a fine book could have been written by a cessationist. So said reviewer is even more fundy than DW?

[MamaJunebug]

18 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

which made my inner 12 YO boy giggle, 

I have one of those!!

[Hane]

Ride, Sally, Ride, Chapter Two:  Woke Prosecutors are the Worst.

Before I begin, I need to point out that the Sally in the title isn’t even what we’d consider an android: she’s a sex doll capable of saying a few vapid phrases and ostensibly performing sex acts.  She can’t move by herself or carry on a conversation. (I wonder whether Dougie ever saw the bizarre but somehow sweet Ryan Gosling movie “Lars and the Real Girl,” about a socially awkward young man who buys a high-end sex doll and treats her like a human being. The doctor in his small town helps deal with his mental illness by encouraging everyone to go along with Lars’s fantasy, until the eventual happy resolution.)

Also, Libby Anne of Patheos’s “Love, Joy, Feminism” blog is the one who gave me the idea for this blow-by-blow of Dougie’s book.  She’s picked apart several “Christian” novels, one of which defended a public school teacher DARING to tell her students about the “truth” of Biblical salvation and a mother who used “Biblical” corporal punishment.

Fired. Arrested.

The cops seize the surveillance video from the recycling center. (Quibble:  How is a smashed sex doll supposed to be recycled?  We’ll never find out.) Ace’s boss Dave escorts him out, faking a vehement pantomime of wrath and insults (to satisfy the bureaucrats who wanted Ace gone), while actually praising Ace for his hard work and wishing he had Ace’s guts. Dave sighs that “Colorado used to be a wonderful place before…” We know he means “horrible liberals and sex awfulness.”

Olsen Gone

Now we meet Connor Connorson, a prosecuting lawyer and social justice warrior with an equally “woke” lawyer lover named Henry Baker. “Their boss, Ted Olsen, was an old school liberal and Democrat, meaning that his was a liberalism that had been minted before the world had gone nuts.”

Connor is a “fastidious body sculptor” with a mirror-lined basement full of exercise equipment. He picked up this hobby during the following harrowing event when he had been in high school:  After doing some weightlifting with progressively smaller weights (he had started at fifty pounds), when he was struggling with some five-pound ones, three beautiful Mean Girls (Dougie says they weren’t really mean) came in and laughed at him. Dougie says you would have laughed, too. (Fuck you, Dougie—don’t speak for me.) This made Connor turn gay. I swear to God.

Connor is in charge of his office because Ted Olsen is off on an Alaskan hunting vacation:  translation—incommunicado in the wilderness banging his Alaskan mistress (as opposed to his local mistress). Connor decides to make his career by prosecuting Ace not for destruction of property, but for murder. He plans to leverage this by threatening to tell Ted’s wife about his indiscretions. (Dougie throws something in about how governments buildings now are grubby and in disrepair because of the powerful and evil custodians’ union.) Connor gets his team together and they have a simultaneous orgasm at the prospect of standing up for human choice.

Monty Lewis

The Christian Defense League (CLD) is an illegal entity in Colorado, but Benson Hartwick and Jon Hunt have “back channel” connections to it. The CLD, despite being largely Protestant and evangelical, had assisted some Catholic organizations, primarily adoption agencies. (Gee, I wonder why.) Monty Lewis is a billionaire Catholic casino owner, adopted as an infant. Out of gratitude for the work the CLD had done fifty years ago on behalf of the Catholic adoption agency that had placed him with his adoptive family, Monty lays out megabucks to make sure Ace has a “platinum grade” legal defense, in the person of Jon Hunt.

Jon takes Ace out for Chinese food. (We are expected to find beef with peapods amazingly exotic. Dougie, my grandparents are from Little Italy, right next door to Chinatown in NYC. There is a family law that says only to eat at the Chinese restaurants where Chinese people eat. So STFU, poseur.) They discuss the case. Stephanie shows up to drop off some storage shed keys with her father. (There is some virtue-signaling about how she’s the kind of person who would rather rummage through a storage unit to find a lost book than spend a couple of bucks on a new one.) She is “cool and aloof, but still friendly.” She rejects her father’s offer to join them and leaves to study. Jon tells Ace not even to *think* about having designs on his daughter. Ace says his reaction to Stephanie was “one of simple admiration…like seeing the Taj Mahal in person.” OK.

Mirror Practice

Evil crooked gay prosecutor Connor paces in front of his bathroom mirror rehearsing his arguments—to wit, that Steve had introduced Sally as his wife.  He hopes to add a rape charge, presupposing that Ace had had sex with Sally before destroying her—boy howdy, THAT would make a sensational trial!

Jon the Man

We are given a physical description of Jon Hunt, a slender man with a salt-and-pepper beard (sound familiar?) and a disciplined personality.

In court, Jon announces to the judge that Ace has been invited to address a family values convention in Alabama. Evil Connor says Ace would be a flight risk and accuses him of intending to spread hate at the conference. Jon says the court can up Ace’s bail, and that his defense team can cover any security expenses. The judge says Ace can go, but in the company of two state troopers.  

*whew* Only twelve more chapters to go!

Edited November 2, 2020 by Hane

[Black Aliss]

5 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Very seldom, I’ll listen to a radio wing nut who happens to be Lutheran and who has had guests at least intimate the first part of this if not say it out loud: I think  clearly recall one nan (of course) saying “slippery slope to marrying a toaster.”

And of course that begs the question about just who is harmed by someone else marrying a toaster. Assuming that the toaster is able to give consent, which has always been a requirement for marriage.

[Ozlsn]

58 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

So said reviewer is even more fundy than DW?

Or a really good troll.

[Xan]

1 hour ago, Hane said:

Ride, Sally, Ride, Chapter Two:  Woke Prosecutors are the Worst.

Before I begin, I need to point out that the Sally in the title isn’t even what we’d consider an android: she’s a sex doll capable of saying a few vapid phrases and ostensibly performing sex acts.  She can’t move by herself or carry on a conversation. (I wonder whether Dougie ever saw the bizarre but somehow sweet Ryan Gosling movie “Lars and the Real Girl,” about a socially awkward young man who buys a high-end sex doll and treats her like a human being. The doctor in his small town helps deal with his mental illness by encouraging everyone to go along with Lars’s fantasy, until the eventual happy resolution.)

I was wondering about this myself.  I loved that movie but I bet someone like Doug would watch the first twenty or thirty minutes, think he knew what was going on, and turn off the movie.  Lars was working through loneliness and fear and we never even get an inkling that he uses the doll for its usual purpose.  Doug, "real man" that he thinks he is, couldn't imagine having the doll around and not using it.  So he probably just meant sex doll instead of android.  That makes sense.

I find it offensive that he thinks gayness is just a choice and, further, that he is actually blaming "mean girls" for it.  What an ass.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Xan

[Hane]

Regarding the POV in this story: Dougie is using the “omniscient narrator” one. And that narrator is Dougie, who is as subtle as a sledgehammer. Evangelical Christian conservatism: Good! Premarital virginity: Good! Patriarchy: Good! Liberals: Bad! Teh geyz: Bad (and they’re *choosing* their gayness)! Abortion: Bad!

Now to rest up for Chapter Three!

[Howl]

21 minutes ago, Xan said:

What an ass.

Totally on brand for Wilson. 

[Ozlsn]

45 minutes ago, Hane said:

“Their boss, Ted Olsen, was an old school liberal and Democrat, meaning that his was a liberalism that had been minted before the world had gone nuts.”

Er... I really want to ask if this means he turns out to be a total mansplainer. Because that sounds a lot like he is a liberal as long as it doesn't affect his perceived position in the world.

2 hours ago, Hane said:

This made Connor turn gay. I swear to God.

Yeah... nah.

2 hours ago, Hane said:

We are expected to find beef with peapods amazingly exotic

Dude, that's pub food. Country pub food even.

2 hours ago, Hane said:

boy howdy, THAT would make a sensational trial!

I would watch. Not gonna lie.

2 hours ago, Hane said:

The judge says Ace can go, but in the company of two state troopers

Presumably being paid for by the Catholic billionaire? I can see no way in which this could possibly fail.

2 hours ago, Hane said:

Before I begin, I need to point out that the Sally in the title isn’t even what we’d consider an android: she’s a sex doll capable of saying a few vapid phrases and ostensibly performing sex acts. 

"Can't move herself" and "performing sex acts" makes her sound like an enhanced vacuum cleaner. I don't think Doug thought this through. At the very least Ace should still be being charged with burglary and theft though, right? 

[Black Aliss]

3 hours ago, Xan said:

I find it offensive that he thinks gayness is just a choice and, further, that he is actually blaming "mean girls" for it.  What an ass.

I think it speaks volumes about what goes on inside his head and about choices he has made.