Jump to content
IGNORED

More Info on Doug Wilson, Pedophile Enabler


bea

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:
11 hours ago, Howl said:

There's an ongoing twitter conversation about Joe Rigney, a Doug Wilson acolyte, who is now president of Bethlehem College & Seminary, where John Piper is a chancellor.

THis?

Bethlehem Baptist leaders clash over"coddling"

Yes, among many others. Julie Roys is covering it, our local paper the Star Tribune picked it up, and it's gotten other national attention.

Bethlehem College & Seminary is tightly tied to Bethlehem Baptist Church (Piper's); a lot of overlap between the elders & leaders. The Rigney/Naselli debacle is only one part of the firestorm they're in the middle of, but in my mind it's the most odious part. Wilson is scum, and he and his ideas are being strongly supported by Rigney and folks like Naselli. Jason Meyer (Piper's successor) and several other staff/elders and members have left the church, and they were the ones most concerned about racial justice, caring for abuse victims, etc. It's the neo-conservatives who will remain in command of the field, now less troubled by dissenting voices.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/6/2021 at 5:30 PM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

It came up on another thread that Doug Wilson's son is Nathan Wilson is a successful children's book author. He writes under the name N. D. Wilson and here is a list of his books. Given who his father is, I wonder what the books are like. It may not be fair to lump the son in with the father, but they live in the same town. Also he seems to be Doug's only son and so the grandsons mentioned above are his children.

This podcast episode describes some of Nate Wilson’s secular YA writing.

Christian Rightcast: Wilson Family Values

I listen to a lot of podcasts, but I think this is the one I’m remembering. They didn’t know some crucial details about Doug Wilson, but at the end of the podcast, they remedy that. (It sounded like they did their homework and added on at the end.)

  • Upvote 1
  • Thank You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

Yes, among many others. Julie Roys is covering it, our local paper the Star Tribune picked it up, and it's gotten other national attention.

Bethlehem College & Seminary is tightly tied to Bethlehem Baptist Church (Piper's); a lot of overlap between the elders & leaders. The Rigney/Naselli debacle is only one part of the firestorm they're in the middle of, but in my mind it's the most odious part. Wilson is scum, and he and his ideas are being strongly supported by Rigney and folks like Naselli.

They imported in alumni of New Saint Andrews and Bob Jones University and mysteriously there's now a lot of trouble. 🤔

  • Upvote 2
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As an example of what I mean, these two tweets are pretty mindblowing in one sense:

But on the other hand, it is not a surprise that Rigney came out with this given the Wilson connection.  This is summarised - btw - in the CT article as:

 

Quote

Sarah Brima and her husband were former members of Bethlehem and Rigney’s Cities Church but left in part over his affiliation with Wilson. She described how hard it was to leave a church they’d helped plant, even as disagreements about race and gender emerged.

The disagreements .. they just 'emerge'.

Edited by stylites
  • Upvote 4
  • Thank You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, stylites said:

They imported in alumni of New Saint Andrews and Bob Jones University and mysteriously there's now a lot of trouble. 🤔

I beg to differ slightly. The trouble didn’t start when they imported the alumni. Piper has always been poison from the beginning, and he pastored that church for how many years? If he was as influential at the seminary as Doug Wilson Is at NSA and Logos (DW is what I think you call a little tin god there), then the clawmarks of Piper are all over it. The imported people are simply birds of a feather.

Pardon me if this is what you were already saying. Pre-coffee typing is a perilous business.

I know a bit more about DW than Piper because we were more than 2 decades at the cult (I refuse to call it a church) where he was best buds with the elders and came out (farther) West many times to preach and teach “seminars”. It was all presented as “true history they have suppressed for years and don’t want you to know”, and we felt so… I don’t know. Special? Privileged? In on an incredible secret? And it was all garbage and hate disguised as reason and what love “really” is. We were so brainwashed, and I feel so sick when I look back on it, and so ashamed to have been taken in, even though my gut kept telling me it was all wrong. But they used the bible for that, too. “God’s ways are higher than our ways.” No questioning needed. If you questioned, you were out of step with their monstrous god.

I became acquainted with Piper in the Acts29 “church” we eventually escaped to. We had to find a church with similar teachings, you know, so as not to be apostates condemned to eternal torment. Eventually, we discovered that the YRR was the same beliefs repackaged with a candy coating to make them palatable.

1 minute ago, refugee said:

I beg to differ slightly. The trouble didn’t start when they imported the alumni. Piper has always been poison from the beginning, and he pastored that church for how many years? If he was as influential at the seminary as Doug Wilson Is at NSA and Logos (DW is what I think you call a little tin god there), then the clawmarks of Piper are all over it. The imported people are simply birds of a feather.

Pardon me if this is what you were already saying. Pre-coffee typing is a perilous business.

I know a bit more about DW than Piper because we were more than 2 decades at the cult (I refuse to call it a church) where he was best buds with the elders and came out (farther) West many times to preach and teach “seminars”. It was all presented as “true history they have suppressed for years and don’t want you to know”, and we felt so… I don’t know. Special? Privileged? In on an incredible secret? And it was all garbage and hate disguised as reason and what love “really” is. We were so brainwashed, and I feel so sick when I look back on it, and so ashamed to have been taken in, even though my gut kept telling me it was all wrong. But they used the bible for that, too. “God’s ways are higher than our ways.” No questioning needed. If you questioned, you were out of step with their monstrous god.

I became acquainted with Piper in the Acts29 “church” we eventually escaped to. We had to find a church with similar teachings, you know, so as not to be apostates condemned to eternal torment. Eventually, we discovered that the YRR was the same beliefs repackaged with a candy coating to make them palatable.

I meant “Piper’s teachings” there. Never met the man, but he was quoted often and with as much reverence as if he’d written a fifth gospel.

  • Upvote 7
  • Thank You 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, refugee said:

Piper has always been poison from the beginning

Piper’s always been a big supporter of abusive men like Wilson, Driscoll, and Mahaney. He helped them build their empires, and a culture of narcissism, control, and power, and now his chickens are coming home to roost. The leopards will eat his face, too, in the end. 

  • Upvote 4
  • I Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Columbia said:

Piper’s always been a big supporter of abusive men like Wilson, Driscoll, and Mahaney. He helped them build their empires, and a culture of narcissism, control, and power, and now his chickens are coming home to roost. The leopards will eat his face, too, in the end. 

All of this. John Piper is a vile person, truly evil. I, for one, will be cheering on the leopards. 

 

  • Upvote 3
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, refugee said:

I beg to differ slightly. The trouble didn’t start when they imported the alumni. Piper has always been poison from the beginning, and he pastored that church for how many years? If he was as influential at the seminary as Doug Wilson Is at NSA and Logos (DW is what I think you call a little tin god there), then the clawmarks of Piper are all over it. The imported people are simply birds of a feather.

Pardon me if this is what you were already saying. Pre-coffee typing is a perilous business.

I think I'd mostly agree with that, I think the imported people stepped things up a notch and made a number of hitherto somewhat hidden problems suddenly surface.

Wilson is absolutely poisonous, but he's managed to survive afaict because he has iron control over his grouping and can usually pick off the dissenters one by one.  I think with BBC it's much harder, both because it's more high profile with greater visibility and because the control isn't quite as total.

  • Upvote 2
  • I Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, refugee said:

I know a bit more about DW than Piper because we were more than 2 decades at the cult

Wish FJ had the nice FB hug emoji for you! 

2 hours ago, Columbia said:

The leopards will eat his face, too, in the end. 

Now I'll think of that group collectively as the Leopards Will Eventually Eat Your Face Too Party! 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thank You 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, stylites said:

Wilson is absolutely poisonous, but he's managed to survive afaict because he has iron control over his grouping and can usually pick off the dissenters one by one.  I think with BBC it's much harder, both because it's more high profile with greater visibility and because the control isn't quite as total.

This with Wilson.  He's an authoritarian in pastoral disguise. He maintains that iron fist control by enmeshing his followers with CREC endeavors in various ways.  For example, a wife might teach at the Logos School (where her kids attend) and her husband works for a business owned by a CREC member.  Then, to help finances, they might have taken in a boarder who is a student at the New Saint Andrews seminary/Greyfriars Hall.  If one of them steps out of line, the leverage to get that person back in line STAT is immense. 

He has also disappeared people, literally.  One day they are at work teaching, for example, and the next day they're gone.  So some people are disappeared from the CREC, but he also goes to extreme lengths to protect people who have been very credibly accused or even convicted of sexual abuse and pedophilia and remain entrenched in the church. 

I'm convinced that another way he keeps control is through the Center for Biblical Counseling.  Biblical counselors are not bound by patient confidentiality in the same way that secular counselors are. 

I keep returning to the word Machiavellian to describe Wilson. 

  • Upvote 2
  • I Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Howl said:

Doug Wilson is so sleazy.  Now he's made up a weak and little post about why it's okay to use fake vaccine cards.  I swear I am not making this up. 

I couldn't read the whole Blargh and Muh Blargh post because it's such bullshit.  If you want to read it, it's set up as a Web archive, so doesn't count on his web site traffic: A Biblical Defense of Fake Vaccine IDs

This is how it starts: 

Speaking of fakes, if you wade through his wordsmith-y bullshit, that's the essence of his fake argument. 

 

the fbi just said recently that faking vaccine cards is a federal crime. https://www.ic3.gov/media/y2021/psa210330 any way we can hold doug accountable for this? this, I can imagine will have a detrimental impact on the local moscow, id community 

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Howl said:

I'm convinced that another way he keeps control is through the Center for Biblical Counseling.  Biblical counselors are not bound by patient confidentiality in the same way that secular counselors are. 

I’ve read that his “counselors” are supposed to report to the church leadership anything they hear in “counseling” sessions that might be pertinent. Doug has any number of ways of wringing information out of his followers. 

  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, CaseyGrace said:

the fbi just said recently that faking vaccine cards is a federal crime. https://www.ic3.gov/media/y2021/psa210330 any way we can hold doug accountable for this? this, I can imagine will have a detrimental impact on the local moscow, id community 

Doubtful.  To be a Federal crime, it would have to relate to a Federal mandate, right? 

Wilson and everyone of his cronies will hide behind religious freedom blah blah. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Howl said:

Doubtful.  To be a Federal crime, it would have to relate to a Federal mandate, right? 

Wilson and everyone of his cronies will hide behind religious freedom blah blah. 

 I did some reading and i think it has more to do with the faking of a government logo on the fraudulent card. as you know all real vaccine cards have the cdc logo so in order to realistically fake one you would need to fake a cdc logo and that is where the crime is. I do believe some people have actually been arrested for this, which is partially how I found out it was a huge issue.  

  • Upvote 1
  • Thank You 5
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not surprised Wilson is antivaxx.  Jordan Niednagel left for CREC after Vision Forum crumbled; I remember him liking Wilson.  Brain Type Institute had some antivaxx articles not that long ago.  Their efforts to try and appear neutral or scientific can never hold up for long; they always inject something associated with hyperconservative Calvinism in there somewhere.  Makes me wonder if BeyondPersonality.com will ever be a thing once father Niednagel passes.  The Niednagels probably can't be in the mainstream sports community, or reach out to the scientific community, for much longer given their views -- but I wonder how much they've been able to convince other CRECers of their system.  Given that I never see Wilsonites and other Calvinists talk about them much, I imagine they haven't been all that successful after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Khendra said:

Not surprised Wilson is antivaxx.  Jordan Niednagel left for CREC after Vision Forum crumbled; I remember him liking Wilson.  Brain Type Institute had some antivaxx articles not that long ago.  Their efforts to try and appear neutral or scientific can never hold up for long; they always inject something associated with hyperconservative Calvinism in there somewhere.  Makes me wonder if BeyondPersonality.com will ever be a thing once father Niednagel passes.  The Niednagels probably can't be in the mainstream sports community, or reach out to the scientific community, for much longer given their views -- but I wonder how much they've been able to convince other CRECers of their system.  Given that I never see Wilsonites and other Calvinists talk about them much, I imagine they haven't been all that successful after all.

Interesting. You may be right. Among the names that were dropped at the former cult were Doug Wilson, Steve Wilkins, Tim Bayley, Scott Brown of the NCFIC, the Ezzos, Richard Fugate, Bradricks, Rushdooney, among others. (Doug Phillips and the Botkins gained in influence later.) 

I don’t recall ever hearing the name Niednagel until we left that church (edit: It was here at FJ, reading Vision Forum topics, I think?). So maybe not as much influence in the PNW?

Edited by refugee
Clarification
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, refugee said:

(Doug Phillips and the Botkins gained in influence later.) 

Gaines in influence at the CREC? I always knew Phillips liked Wilson (no idea if that went the other way as well) but I didn’t know the Botkins were well known outside of that very niche Vision Forum circle. I’ve listened to a fair amount of their drivel, and I’ve never heard them mention Wilson. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Columbia said:

Gaines in influence at the CREC? I always knew Phillips liked Wilson (no idea if that went the other way as well) but I didn’t know the Botkins were well known outside of that very niche Vision Forum circle. I’ve listened to a fair amount of their drivel, and I’ve never heard them mention Wilson. 

No, Phillips gained influence at our former cult, thanks to one of his disciples/ fanatical adherents. The first decade or so we spent at the church cult was dominated by Doug Wilson/Steve Wilkins fans, but a VF faction gradually took over the church. cult. One guy started sharing VF CDs and DVDs as a “service”. (That’s where the Botkins CDs and “So Much More” got introduced.) He eventually was instrumental in forcing out the pastor, who was a huge fan of some slave-holding “theologian” named Dabney. He (the pastor, I mean) adored Wilson’s alternate history of the South.

It was the pastor, I think, who was the main force behind asking DW to teach “seminars” at the church. cult. At one time, the pastor raised the question of the church cult changing from PCA to CREC over some controversy, I have no idea anymore what it was (did the PCA ever debate ordaining women?).
Between the Wilson years and the VF years was an intermediate period where the cult helped sponsor a big, citywide RC Sproul conference and invited RC Sproul Jr. to conduct one or two of the annual “seminars”.

The VF crowd fully took over after forcing the pastor out. No more invitations to Doug Wilson, though they kept his books in the library. Everything was VF, though—families (some rich, some who probably couldn’t afford it but scraped together the $$$—we could never afford such a trip or the conference fees) went to VF events like the father-daughter (conference?) back East, and some history thing back East (to do with the Founding Fathers?), and the VF film festivals. The “ruling” family sent several sons to be VF interns. The father in that family still rules the church cult with an iron fist, from what I hear. He’s a real piece of work.

So the cult went through several phases since its founding in the early 1990s. None of them healthy. It seemed kind of normal when we joined a year after it started. Leaning conservative, but there were still working women in the congregation when we started attending. It went sour so subtly. We weren’t discerning enough to read the signs.

DW was only physically involved during the first half of our time there. They still loved his books, though, especially the one on marriage. Gotta keep those women subjugated.

I hope that makes more sense.

(Sorry about the formatting. I am just petty enough to go back through and change every accidental mention of “church” to “cult”.)

Edited by refugee
Clarification
  • Upvote 1
  • Thank You 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

p.s. the falling-out with Wilson might have happened before they fastened on Sproul as their guiding light. It might have had something to do with Steve Wilkins’ Auburn Avenue Controversy, known more widely as Federal Vision. There was a huge theological brouhaha over Federal Vision taking over hyper-reformed circles. The pastor made a study on the issue and solemnly called a congregational meeting to declare the issue heresy. Wilson might have stuck up for Wilkins, I don’t remember. They were co-authors on “Southern Slavery: As It Was”. The whole Federal Vision controversy was rather over my head at the time. I feel like my brain wasn’t working right. Maybe due to extreme cognitive dissonance.

  • WTF 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, refugee said:

p.s. the falling-out with Wilson might have happened before they fastened on Sproul as their guiding light. It might have had something to do with Steve Wilkins’ Auburn Avenue Controversy, known more widely as Federal Vision. There was a huge theological brouhaha over Federal Vision taking over hyper-reformed circles. The pastor made a study on the issue and solemnly called a congregational meeting to declare the issue heresy. Wilson might have stuck up for Wilkins, I don’t remember. They were co-authors on “Southern Slavery: As It Was”. The whole Federal Vision controversy was rather over my head at the time. I feel like my brain wasn’t working right. Maybe due to extreme cognitive dissonance.

Wilson was one of the original FVers.  Wilkins was also a former board member of the League of the South.  Once you start digging all sorts of unsavoury connections come to the fore.

  • Upvote 5
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stylites said:

Wilson was one of the original FVers.  Wilkins was also a former board member of the League of the South.  Once you start digging all sorts of unsavoury connections come to the fore.

Ah. That makes sense. I have forgotten so much of what we lived through in the cult. I guess that’s a mercy. But it explains why they switched from espousing Doug Wilson to the Sprouls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys, John Piper is sad. Not about the awful behavior of the Wilson-esque leadership at his church, but because people are talking about it online. How unfortunate. 
 

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Eyeroll 1
  • Haha 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Piper is a skeevy little turd. These guys just have problems with how they experience women.  Piper has been upset and presumably still is, over what women wear to the gym. 

Sex obsessed Doug Wilson denigrates women not in the cult, presumably because...wtf knows why.  He protects men who molest children and who the **** knows why he does that. 

Doug Phillips...well we know what Doug Phillips did. 

  • Upvote 7
  • I Agree 4
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Columbia said:

You guys, John Piper is sad. Not about the awful behavior of the Wilson-esque leadership at his church, but because people are talking about it online. How unfortunate. 
 

Yeah, I think he has a severe case of posters brain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • nelliebelle1197 locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.