Counting On Season Two - Part 2

[Coconut Flan 43,412]

Continued from here:

 

[Markie 8,554]

Jessa's encouraging Ben's interest in starting up a football club reminds me of Charlotte Collins encouraging her husband to be out in the garden or attending to Lady Catherine as much as possible (Pride and Prejudice).

[Bim 251]

Well to continue on the topic of who cooks:

I watched the episode again and they said the meal with Jeremy they got catered. I think they also said they don't often eat all together now because everyone is so "busy".

I remember in 19kac the girls cooked a lot more, they made homemade bread etc. I think it's only Jessa and Jinger that never cooked. 

[Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues 599]

2 hours ago, Bim said:

Well to continue on the topic of who cooks:

I watched the episode again and they said the meal with Jeremy they got catered. I think they also said they don't often eat all together now because everyone is so "busy".

I remember in 19kac the girls cooked a lot more, they made homemade bread etc. I think it's only Jessa and Jinger that never cooked. 

You would think that cooking would be a financial necessity.  Imagine the cost of catering for all those people?  But I guess it's possible when you have tlc paying for everything....

[Coconut Flan 43,412]

I think catering was a bit of an exaggeration.  They appear to have ordered take out from an Italian place.

[ClaraOswin 13,211]

12 hours ago, Bim said:

Well to continue on the topic of who cooks:

I watched the episode again and they said the meal with Jeremy they got catered. I think they also said they don't often eat all together now because everyone is so "busy".

I remember in 19kac the girls cooked a lot more, they made homemade bread etc. I think it's only Jessa and Jinger that never cooked. 

They are all so busy, eh? Yeah...I'll bet.

[SassyPants 59,506]

Busy doing nothing. You know when they where really busy? When Michelle had her second set of twins, Joy was 1, Josiah was 2, Joe was 3, Jinger was 4, Jessa was 5, Jill was 6, Jana/JD were 7 and Josh was 8.

[halcionne 4,469]

8 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Busy doing nothing. You know when they where really busy? When Michelle had her second set of twins, Joy was 1, Josiah was 2, Joe was 3, Jinger was 5, Jessa was 6, Jill was 7, Jana/JD were 8 and Josh was 10.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I like to be as accurate as possible about these things.  In any case, that is a crazy number of young kids! I'll bet she had already checked out by then. She made the buddies look out for each other (I have notes on who the buddies were, if anyone's interested) and the piano teacher helping with laundry. All that's left is to open a couple bags of tater tots for dinner and voila! Parenting accomplished! 

Also, fuck Jim Bob. Because those are his kids and his responsibility, too.

[nickelodeon 21,771]

@halcionne, did Jinger have buddies (whom we will have to watch melting down at her wedding as they see their mother figure blithely abandon them for a life of being somebody else's mommy, a la Callie Bates?)

[calimojo 11,372]

of the older Girls, Jinger always seemed the least interested in the little kids to me.  I don't think she had buddies, but maybe was part of a buddy team and was a helper there.  I thought the buddy teams were Jill, Jana and Jess.  But possibly Jinger had a team too.  Josh, I think had a team as well, with the younger boys, but I think the boy buddies were different than the girl buddies.  I think the Boy buddies were more about making sure they had everyone together when they went on outings, which honestly makes sense with that many kids.  Or the older boy buddies entertained or played with the younger kids, but I don't imagine they were responsible for any surrogate parenting responsibilities. 

 

The thing about the Buddy team is that, for a big family it does make sense to Pair an older kid with a younger kid.  Imagine in the winter how long it would take one parent to put on boots, snow pants, mittens, hats, coats for 4 or more young kids.  So having older buddies who can help with some of this is sensible.  Assigning the buddies to some basic task management and light supervision is fine.  I did this with my kids and I just have 3.  The oldest would help out now and again and even babysit when old enough.  But Michelle and her ilk, just take it too far and seem to completely relegate child rearing to these surrogate parents they call buddies.  And of course the worst part about the buddy system done the Duggar way, is that it robs the older children of their own childhood.  So instead of helping out here and there, and having a few reasonable chore assignments, the old kids are practically fully parenting 24/7.  And since they themselves had such deficient parenting,  they really have no idea on how to even do it right.  Remember Michelle showing the little girls how to feed a baby, flat on its back?  Or all of the times we have seen duggarlings crawling up the stairs unsupervised?  And then we wonder why Jill lets Izzy stand and chew on electrical fan.   

Honestly sometimes I do wonder if God really does like these people because it seems like despite being incredibly careless and neglectful none of those kids has had a really serious injury ( other than Jason, I guess).  Even before the scandal broke,  the last several seasons of the show were more of an example of what not to do.  The kids were shown repeatedly with inadequate supervision.  And don't even get me started on the disrespectful way that the entire family treated that historic home in Little Rock when Josie was in the hospital.  For such good "Christian" people, they are incredibly insensitive and disrespectful people.  For example, who takes advantage of a kids eat free event at a restaurant owned by local people, and then brings in 15-19 kids.  So disrespectful and inconsiderate to the local business owner.  Who attends a church as a guest and then looks offended at the type of musical and dancing worship they do?  Who, as a parent goes to a foreign country and then proceeds to make fun of the food, the traditions etc.  in front of their kids.  Wouldn't good parents be teaching their kids to be respectful of that host countries traditions even if they themselves don't agree?   

These people are really just the worst.  Through and through.  But they are an example of just how putting the label of "Jesus" on everything will make it ok with the even dumber people who support them.

[iweartanktops 16,116]

3 hours ago, halcionne said:

Sorry to be pedantic, but I like to be as accurate as possible about these things.  In any case, that is a crazy number of young kids! I'll bet she had already checked out by then. She made the buddies look out for each other (I have notes on who the buddies were, if anyone's interested) and the piano teacher helping with laundry. All that's left is to open a couple bags of tater tots for dinner and voila! Parenting accomplished! 

Also, fuck Jim Bob. Because those are his kids and his responsibility, too.

When you pop in to post facts, I always picture a bunch of spreadsheets. I'm so curious about how you file and organize your fundie information.

[anotherone 2,911]

18 hours ago, Markie said:

Jessa's encouraging Ben's interest in starting up a football club reminds me of Charlotte Collins encouraging her husband to be out in the garden or attending to Lady Catherine as much as possible (Pride and Prejudice).

Being sick of each other hanging around the house all day is something that supposed to happen at retirement, not when you're 21.

[Bim 251]

3 hours ago, calimojo said:

The oldest would help out now and again and even babysit when old enough.  But Michelle and her ilk, just take it too far and seem to completely relegate child rearing to these surrogate parents they call buddies.  And of course the worst part about the buddy system done the Duggar way, is that it robs the older children of their own childhood.  So instead of helping out here and there, and having a few reasonable chore assignments, the old kids are practically fully parenting 24/7.  And since they themselves had such deficient parenting,  they really have no idea on how to even do it right.  Remember Michelle showing the little girls how to feed a baby, flat on its back?  Or all of the times we have seen duggarlings crawling up the stairs unsupervised?  And then we wonder why Jill lets Izzy stand and chew on electrical fan.   

 

I honestly never thought of it that way but you're so right. They just started being mothers when they were 14, nobody teaching them how to even do it. Most girls I know became certified babysitters at 13/14 but they had to take a special class and we're only taking care of children for a couple hours at a time. But these girls were just left to teach themselves how to parent while Michelle and JB were whoring it out for the next TV special. 

It really makes me wonder how the young girls and younger boys are going to turn out as a result of being raised by children. 

[calimojo 11,372]

I think they were much younger when they started being mothers to their buddies.  I thought as young as perhaps 10 or so. And no doubt even younger than that they were helping out a lot.  

[imokit 4,330]

I suspect the mothering aspect was gradual, but I can easily see 2 year old Jana being told to play with Jill so M could feed Jessa, 3 year old Jana fetching & carrying and entertaining etc  My impression was that she & Jill were full sister moming by 8 or so.  When Jana was 8 years old, she was 2nd of 11 kids.  11 kids 10 and under - no way the older ones weren't picking up children who fell over, dealing with nightmares, helping to feed etc  M may have been mothering at that point, but she couldn't do it alone.  Though I wouldn't be surprised if Josh & JD were doing a lot as well too.

[Bim 251]

2 minutes ago, imokit said:

I suspect the mothering aspect was gradual, but I can easily see 2 year old Jana being told to play with Jill so M could feed Jessa, 3 year old Jana fetching & carrying and entertaining etc  My impression was that she & Jill were full sister moming by 8 or so.  When Jana was 8 years old, she was 2nd of 11 kids.  11 kids 10 and under - no way the older ones weren't picking up children who fell over, dealing with nightmares, helping to feed etc  M may have been mothering at that point, but she couldn't do it alone.  Though I wouldn't be surprised if Josh & JD were doing a lot as well too.

I was rewatching their old documentaries and at one point when Michelle is pregnant with Jordyn they're in a store and Joseph was minding all the younger kids while the older girls were shopping with Michelle. 

I do think its natural for daughters to want to help and take care of their sibling, girls tend to be nurturing by instinct and usually want to play with baby dolls etc. So I do think its normal to have them help out, BUT I think Michelle has taken it too far. Theres been so many times where they say the young kids only listen when Jana is directing them. Or they get their work done faster if Jessa is bossing them around. 

[silverspoons 977]

17 hours ago, Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues said:

You would think that cooking would be a financial necessity.  Imagine the cost of catering for all those people?  But I guess it's possible when you have tlc paying for everything....

They tape quite a bit of reality tv in my area. TLC and many others pay low or nothing but most people say the constant spread of food is the perk. The contracts are crazy air tight but the ones I have been  involved with there was more food then anyone could eat. It seems like the food is not just for the reality tv family/stars but for the crew. The filming company pays for the food so they order a ton. I'm sure that the Duggars have become used to the free food on filming days.  I always thought Jim Bob would film just for the free food , gas in his bus, and all the extras, if they dropped the salary very low.

[ksgranola1 2,423]

Michelle once said early on that the buddies "made sure their little buddies had gone to the bathroom, hair was combed & shoes were on." You know how easily kids can lose shoes. Do their sox match? You didn't comb your hair b/c you dropped the comb in the toilet?

Caring for all those girls' mains had to be a project. I had 2 & it drove me to tears.

[BeccaGrim 4,546]

Jinger is reminding me of Michelle.  The baby the voice, the gazing constantly.  I think much more more than Jessa or Jill did.  

[Lizzybet 2,295]

Okay, I haven't laid eyes on any of this, or any of them, since this whole Jinger's in love thing.

Please, anyone, direct me to YouTube or wherever else, to watch.

I have TLC in my cable line up, but never catch any episodes.

Thanks!

[OrchidBlossom 8,790]

5 hours ago, Bim said:

I was rewatching their old documentaries and at one point when Michelle is pregnant with Jordyn they're in a store and Joseph was minding all the younger kids while the older girls were shopping with Michelle. 

I do think its natural for daughters to want to help and take care of their sibling, girls tend to be nurturing by instinct and usually want to play with baby dolls etc. So I do think its normal to have them help out, BUT I think Michelle has taken it too far. Theres been so many times where they say the young kids only listen when Jana is directing them. Or they get their work done faster if Jessa is bossing them around. 

I don't think girls are more nurturing by instinct than boys are. I never wanted kids or liked little kids, but my brother was always great with our little cousins and stuff. 

I think that its socialized, and I think if the Duggars weren't so strictly socialized around gender norms probably one or two girls wouldn't have liked the little ones, and maybe some of the boys would have a stronger bond with their younger siblings (which we don't really see much of at all). 

[Arix 897]

32 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I don't think girls are more nurturing by instinct than boys are. I never wanted kids or liked little kids, but my brother was always great with our little cousins and stuff. 

I think that its socialized, and I think if the Duggars weren't so strictly socialized around gender norms probably one or two girls wouldn't have liked the little ones, and maybe some of the boys would have a stronger bond with their younger siblings (which we don't really see much of at all). 

I recall seeing James? Making breakfast for a girl in one of the episodes.

[OrchidBlossom 8,790]

1 minute ago, Arix said:

I recall seeing James? Making breakfast for a girl in one of the episodes.

Yeah every once in a great while they would do something outside of "normal" for their gender, but if you look at 19KAC, especially early, there was a lot of gender disparity and they would make jokes about it and stuff.

[halcionne 4,469]

15 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

@halcionne, did Jinger have buddies (whom we will have to watch melting down at her wedding as they see their mother figure blithely abandon them for a life of being somebody else's mommy, a la Callie Bates?)

Yep. I expect Johannah to shed a few tears over losing her sister mom.

11 hours ago, calimojo said:

I think they were much younger when they started being mothers to their buddies.  I thought as young as perhaps 10 or so. And no doubt even younger than that they were helping out a lot.  

Josh was Joe's buddy; they're seven years apart. John David was Josiah's buddy; they're six and a half years apart. Jill was Joy-Anna's buddy; 6.5 year age difference again.

Why is Joy-Anna hyphenated, but John David isn't?  

Jessa was Jeremiah's buddy; six years apart. Jinger was Jed's buddy; only five years apart. Jana was Jason's buddy; they are ten years apart. I'm betting Jana was Michelle's right hand and their efforts were spread pretty thin until the other girls were a bit older and able to be more helpful. Jill took James and still had 4yo Joy-Anna.

It's at this point that Josh turned 14, and I don't need to remind anyone what was going on in the house that year. 

Jessa got Justin in addition to 5yo Jeer. Jana "asked" to take Jackson, iirc, while still looking after 5yo Jason. Perhaps someone in charge (who the fuck was in charge?) felt that 11yo Jinger wouldn't be able to manage two kids, but both Jessa and Jill had two at eleven. I'm hypothethesizing on that, just to be clear.

Jinger (now 13) got Johannah in addition to 8yo Jed. By the time Jill got Jenni at 17, 10yo Joy may have been helping 6yo James more so that Jill could help Jana cook or something (I'm guessing again). By this time, 16yo Jessa had 10yo Jeer and 6yo Justin when Michelle handed Jordyn over.

Josh, JD, Joseph, and Josiah were goofing off doing "boys' work" with JB, all this time, I suppose. 

Finally, 20yo Jana got premature Josie while still in charge of 10yo Jason and 6yo Jackson, and the howlers continued aging up into Jim Bob's *jurisdiction,* rme.

Those poor J'slaves. They basically didn't get childhoods at all.

Edited September 5, 2016 by halcionne
a thought

[foreign fundie 6,801]

1 hour ago, halcionne said:

Yep. I expect Johannah to shed a few tears over losing her sister mom.

Josh was Joe's buddy; they're seven years apart. John David was Josiah's buddy; they're six and a half years apart. Jill was Joy-Anna's buddy; 6.5 year age difference again.

Why is Joy-Anna hyphenated, but John David isn't?  

Jessa was Jeremiah's buddy; six years apart. Jinger was Jed's buddy; only five years apart. Jana was Jason's buddy; they are ten years apart. I'm betting Jana was Michelle's right hand and their efforts were spread pretty thin until the other girls were a bit older and able to be more helpful. Jill took James and still had 4yo Joy-Anna.

It's at this point that Josh turned 14, and I don't need to remind anyone what was going on in the house that year. 

Jessa got Justin in addition to 5yo Jeer. Jana "asked" to take Jackson, iirc, while still looking after 5yo Jason. Perhaps someone in charge (who the fuck was in charge?) felt that 11yo Jinger wouldn't be able to manage two kids, but both Jessa and Jill had two at eleven. I'm hypothethesizing on that, just to be clear.

Jinger (now 13) got Johannah in addition to 8yo Jed. By the time Jill got Jenni at 17, 10yo Joy may have been helping 6yo James more so that Jill could help Jana cook or something (I'm guessing again). By this time, 16yo Jessa had 10yo Jeer and 6yo Justin when Michelle handed Jordyn over.

Josh, JD, Joseph, and Josiah were goofing off doing "boys' work" with JB, all this time, I suppose. 

Finally, 20yo Jana got premature Josie while still in charge of 10yo Jason and 6yo Jackson, and the howlers continued aging up into Jim Bob's *jurisdiction,* rme.

Those poor J'slaves. They basically didn't get childhoods at all.

Brownie points for taking time to look all of that up. How long did that take you? I bet Michelle could not even have given you those details.