Bill Gothard, Pt. 2: More & More Damning

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

I wonder how much Gibbs III sucked out of everyone's pockets?  I wish someone would sue HIM for incompetence. 

I really hope he took the case on contingency and the plaintiffs paid him nothing.  I also think he should have been reported to the Bar Association because of his gross mishandling of the case.

Many of us were suspicious and doubtful about Gibbs III from the start.  His supposed change of heart, distancing from Gibbs, Sr, and decision to represent victims instead of defending perpetrators was really odd given his track record.  We tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.

However, as it stands now, Gibbs III appears completely incompetent at representing victims at best, and his malfeasance (strong word but it fits) in this case is disgraceful.  He seemed to have been playing both sides and not representing his clients properly.   He looks like a double agent and it takes a lot to be disqualified from a case as he was.

I hope no victims ever fall for Gibbs III's ambulance-chasing and retain him in the future.  

[socalrules]

I don’t know anything about the background of the case but if the statute of limitations had already run for the causes of action, Defendants would likely be able to get the case dismissed through a motion for summary judgment. You can’t really get around statute of limitations defense if there are no valid exemptions. So it would make sense to drop the lawsuit because you can’t win on invalid causes of action and are just going to incur costs on a losing battle. This is something that would normally be evaluated by the attorney prior to the lawsuit being filed.  

[Carol]

In some way this mirrors what happened to me.  I dropped my case because the Archdiocese filed for bankruptcy.  I did it at my therapists advice because I was increasingly feeling suicidal and she felt hanging on was dangerous for me.  I agreed with her but I am sure that those who noted the lawsuit had been dropped thought it was because I had filed it falsely.

Fuck the Catholic Church.  Fuck the bishop who never apologized to me after having apologized to the men who were molested.  Fuck their lying lawyers who laughed when they thought they trapped me in a lie.  I would say I think there is a special place in hell for all of them...if I actually believed in hell.  

[Palimpsest]

21 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I don’t know anything about the background of the case but if the statute of limitations had already run for the causes of action, Defendants would likely be able to get the case dismissed through a motion for summary judgment.

It was a very complex case and I really don't know how well it would have held water in court.  Gibbs III has a lot to answer for, IMO.  It was not dismissed through a motion for summary judgment though.  The defendants tried that.

We have all the filings inked here somewhere and Homeschoolers Anonymous has good summaries and links to the all documents -  the most recent amended complaint PDF is linked there.

Trigger warning for those who have not yet read it.  Graphic descriptions of sexual abuse and rape.

 https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2all016/08/22/lawsuit-against-bill-gothard-and-iblp-amended/

The SOL on some (not all) of the sexual abuse and rape cases had indeed run out.  However, they were also charging IBLP with negligence and for conducting a flawed and biased internal investigation of the charges in 2013.  I-am-not-a-lawyer but the negligence charges and (alleged) complicity of the IBLP BOD in wrong-doing don't seem to be subject to the same SOLs.

On a different subject:

When this case was first filed IBLP immediately tried to liquidate its real estate holdings in IL and move HQ to Big Sandy.  IBLP called it "consolidating functions" or something.  The cynical among us thought it was to get assets out of state if they lost the case in IL. 

Gibbs III did manage to get a Judge to order a stay on IBLP selling the IL real estate pending conclusion of the case.  Only the ATI functions moved to Big Sandy.  

Now the case has been dropped it is going to be interesting to see whether they do move all HQ functions to TX - or perhaps move ATI back to Oak Brook.  We will have to see whether Brandon and Michael(a) move to TX or Pecan Waller and family move back to IL.  Worth watching.

[apple1]

@Palimpsest Thank you for posting. I had been wondering what was going on with all of this. I had also noticed that when I looked at the Recovering Grace site, nothing new seemed to have been posted in a long time.

Will go read SSB.

[SassyPants]

:(- Terrible.

[Bretta]

What is ridiculous about all this is how hardline supporters absolutely refuse to entertain the idea that he could be guilty. I mean, if you raised your kids in the very isolated world in which BG is the king, in which his word is taken as gospel, and if BG does anything wrong it's immediately dismissed and ignored... then obviously if anything does happen the person who is abused has literally no way of asking for help or getting justice. Anyone from the outside would find it real hard to understand that even speaking up years after leaving the circle of IBLP influence, the indoctrination, fear and intimidation remains a part of your psyche.  BG's spiel was like poisoned "mother's milk" for many children brought up in ATI.

 

And to top that, hardline supporters will just turn against you as a "defamer". It's a David vs. Goliath struggle, odds aren't even remotely fair. I think those hardliners will refuse to admit anything even if abuse happened right in front of their eyes (it did, actually, in some cases). And it's not even far-fetched that abuse happened because it happened before in the early days with BG's brother.

Rachael Denhollander did a really good interview about abuse in Christian circles on Christianity Today. What she says can really be applied to this case as well.

 

[formergothardite]

Gothard recently took seven of the people who accused him to court claiming the lawsuit if frivolous and that they need to pay all his legal bills. The judge did not side with him, he is not getting his legal bills paid. Alfred wants everyone to know that Gothard isn't planning to give up. He has plenty of spare time on his hands and is plotting revenge wanting the people to be responsible for their actions. 

Quote

On January 10, 2019 arguments were heard in the 18th Circuit Court of Illinois regarding several motions filed by Bill against the plaintiffs in the lawsuits against him that were dismissed a year ago.  He asked for sanctions against 7 of the original 17 plaintiffs to get back some of the attorney expenses incurred, also against their legal firm for allowing a “frivolous lawsuit” to be filed.  In addition and in response the plaintiffs had filed a motion for a protective order against Bill, his lawyers, members of Discovering Grace and others that had been helping with Bill’s defense.

Quote

He denied all requests to sanction the plaintiffs or their law firm.  The matter considered here was whether a reasonable, professional attorney would even file these charges, not whether the charges were true.  He concluded that the attorneys for the plaintiffs had not been professionally negligent, and that although never progressing to the point of determining truthfulness, the lawsuit filing was not “frivolous”.

Obviously we disagree with the “frivolous” aspect.  There is much debriefing going on and we filed this before hearing all of the defense team analysis.  They will be pouring over the transcript of this very long day.  We would not be surprised to see some formal legal reaction given a number of unusual aspects.  

Quote

Practically . . . He is 83, still vigorous, planning to live to 120, but . . . 83. His entire network of friends and donors and ministry has been savaged. Most folks would retire to live with their kids and grandkids and go fishing and travel the world before dying. Bill is not “most folks” and has no other life to return to. His life was IBLP. His ability to spin up a new ministry is forever affected and tainted by these very public allegations. He has no kids, he has already travelled the world, and he has no intention of dying any time soon. SO . . . He has LOTS of time to focus on this problem. The plaintiffs expected that he would just take their “Nevermind” and leave them alone when they dropped the suit, stunning even the judge (we were in court that day). He wants more. He wants them to stand and assume responsibility for what they did and fix it. And he has, at this time, lots of time and energy to pursue it.

All being interpreted – if you think this is the last you will hear of Bill and these matters, you are likely mistaken.

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2019/01/11/court-hearing-on-sanctions-and-protective-order-motions/

[Palimpsest]

Alfred is as delusional as Gothard.

That is all.

[Howl]

He's "vigorous" with lots of time and "energy."  Why does reading those words relative to Gothard make my skin crawl?

[nickelodeon]

Impressed by Alfred's ability to look on the bright side of life. Gothard is spending the last few years of his life bitter, miserable, completely alone, reviled by the people he exploited and abused... which gives him LOTS of time to file lawsuits! Yay!

[Howl]

28 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Gothard is spending the last few years of his life bitter, miserable

So his life's work of telling people that if they followed his exact recipe, never holding a grudge, always keeping a happy countenance, they'd be blessed by God, isn't working so well for him.  Also, he's in the position he created for so many women.  He told women to stay at home, honor the husband, and when it all blew up, those women had no skills or means of support for themselves and their bazillionty kids.  Now he has no means of support and he doesn't like it too much.  The irony. 

[CaricatureQualities]

"His life was IBLP. His ability to spin up a new ministry is forever affected and tainted by these very public allegations."

Yeah, I think that was the point. I'm glad to hear Bill and his remaining entourage are having a hard time "spinning up" a new web of shit to trap followers and take their money ministry.

Also, does Alfred think that describing Bill as someone with no life, no interests or hobbies and no family who is now singularly obsessed with getting back at/ making others accept blame and fix/pay for his problems makes Bill look good? Or like someone who should run a ministry?

Edited January 13, 2019 by CaricatureQualities

[Leftitinmysnood]

2 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

Impressed by Alfred's ability to look on the bright side of life. Gothard is spending the last few years of his life bitter, miserable, completely alone, reviled by the people he exploited and abused... which gives him LOTS of time to file lawsuits! Yay!

Thanks for the Monty Python earworm! 

 

[RosyDaisy]

Fuck off, Alfred!

Who is this Alfred anyway? Who is he besides the person behind the Discovering Grace website?

[CyborgKin]

Can you imagine Gothard continuing to be just as Gothard as ever for the next thirty years?

 

Mercy!

[formergothardite]

8 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Who is this Alfred anyway? Who is he besides the person behind the Discovering Grace website?

He is a long time IBLP/ATI father and seems to be the last devoted follower of Gothard. 

I can't find it again but in one of the comments Alfred said Gothard is trying to start another online "college" like Embassy. 

 Gothard is stuck with no money, no adoring crowds, and there will be no new ministry for him. He is going to spend the rest of his days rage sulking and plotting a revenge he will never be able to carry out. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Gothard is stuck with no money, no adoring crowds, and there will be no new ministry for him. He is going to spend the rest of his days rage sulking and plotting a revenge he will never be able to carry out.

the final fall of Gothard can't happen soon enough.

which other charlatan ministry do you think his current employees will flock to?  I honestly can't see David Waller making a living to support his family in the secular word.

[nelliebelle1197]

Why does ol' Al not just adopt Bill and take care of him? It's the next logical step unless he plans to gay marry him.

[formergothardite]

I have a feeling Alfred doesn't want to pay Bill's $200,000 legal fees either! 

[refugee]

I have long had the impression that Alfred fancies himself “Elisha” to Gothard’s “Elijah”.

Edited January 13, 2019 by refugee
Perils of phone typing

[RosyDaisy]

The final fall of Gothard won't be until he dies. However, he thinks of himself like Lazarus.

[Palimpsest]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

the final fall of Gothard can't happen soon enough.

which other charlatan ministry do you think his current employees will flock to?  I honestly can't see David Waller making a living to support his family in the secular word.

@HerNameIsBuffy, you have been gone a long time.   Gothard is done.  Stick a fork in him.  BG is gone from IBLP and reduced to selling stuff, or trying to sell stuff, on his personal web page.   Even his manly prayer groups seemed to go nowhere.

Unfortunately IBLP is not done.  There's still enough money there to keep true believers like Pecan Waller employed for life.

IBLP has been taken over by the rebel BoD members -  Gil Bates and Stephen Paine.  They hired Tim Levendusky as President and added a single rubber stamp, whose name I forget, to the board.

There was a glorious moment last year when BG tried to attend Big Sandy and they called the police to remove him from the campus for trespassing.

Alfred's version here: http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2018/04/29/bill-gothard-went-down-to-texas/

Our thread here: 

 

[formergothardite]

Alfred keeps complaining that the BoD won't let him see the packet of information that is the results private investigation into Gothard. Alfred claims they won't show it because Gothard is innocent. I suspect it is because it shows he is guilty of things not currently known and implicates the BoD is covering shit up. From what I can tell no one outside the BoD was allowed to see the results of the investigation. 

[CaricatureQualities]

It's true, Bill will never stop while alive because how could he? What else does he possible know of life after decades of success with the long con he pulled out of his own ass. Heck it was the family business that he saved from his brother. How long has he been used to being treated like an emperor? Imagine the degree of control over people and situations you would get accustomed to. And then to have the BoD shut him out and to have his new attempts at "ministry" fail and to have his lawsuits dismissed....just being told "NO"  every time he attempts something and expects to have his way. I can't imagine he knows what the word means anymore when directed at him. I don't believe any of this is making it's way through Bill's skull in the least. 

I wonder...if the IBLP were to collapse now...how would BG feel about that? Since he can't have it anymore would he rather no one had it? I mean if it was truly for God and the people and his life's work of being a God whisperer because the followers truly needed it was sincere...wouldn't they still need it in the form of the existing IBLP sans Gothard as it is still largely based on all his teachings? I wonder does he want it to fall under because I really don't think he likes it existing without him. However, like I said I don't think the reality of this is getting through his skull to his brain so he probably still believes he will get back in.