The Botkinettes Tell Us How...

[laPapessaGiovanna]

12 hours ago, refugee said:

failure to launch, like those Italian men I heard about in the news, still living with their parents into their 30s and 40s

Thanks for contributing to the stereotyping. If you don't know what you are talking about maybe you can just shut up or try to deepen your knowledge besides "news" before speaking. Socio economic reality here is very different from the US.

[refugee]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Thanks for contributing to the stereotyping. If you don't know what you are talking about maybe you can just shut up or try to deepen your knowledge besides "news" before speaking. Socio economic reality here is very different from the US.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to stereotype. Failure to launch is not confined to Italy, and I should have gone further to talk about 30-somethings living in their parents' basements in the USA (one of which stalked one of our kids on the internet, which is how we found out the details of his life).

I was referring to a specific news commentary I heard on the radio. I don't even know what station. I always have the radio on while driving, and I switch between stations when an advertisement comes on. It was on the subject of the frustration of... I don't remember whom, exactly. Women who couldn't find self-supporting men to marry? Parents who were still supporting adult children? I don't remember, and I'm sorry that the only fact I remembered was that the interviewer who was talking about the situation was interviewing people in Italy. There was Italian being spoken in the background (so you could get the flavor of the interview questions and answers) and an interpreter speaking over the original voices, like they do on NPR (national public radio in the US), but I can't swear it was NPR.

I did not mean to cast aspersions on people living in a specific country. It was thoughtless of me, and I hope you'll forgive my carelessness.

ETA: @laPapessaGiovanna

@nausicaa, I couldn't find anything on NPR, so it might not have been them -- and if that's the case, I don't know what radio network it was. But in googling, I came up with a few things on this (and not limited to Italy):

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225284880_Failure_to_Launch_Failure_to_Achieve_Criteria_for_Adulthood

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/failure-to-launch-young-adults-increasingly-moving-in-with-mom-and-dad

And this older article, that is more balanced that the interview I heard. It goes more in depth into economics of the situation:

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2012/03/31/italys_failure_to_launch_countrys_youth_face_high_unemployment.html

[CloakNDagger]

On 9/5/2016 at 0:27 AM, RosyDaisy said:

A gun? In church....a place of worship? No....just no.

There was half-serious talk at BCA that there needed to be a plan on which side would jump up and fire a volley for fear of a cross-fire. I'd bet the guns ratio to people was about 1:3 there. Not that that is entirely odd or out of the ordinary in other Texas churches.

[RosyDaisy]

Jesus taught peace and nonviolence. Having a gun in church is teaching the opposite.

[CloakNDagger]

On 9/7/2016 at 7:28 PM, RosyDaisy said:

Jesus taught peace and nonviolence. Having a gun in church is teaching the opposite.

Only if you pick and choose which stories about Jesus are true.

[RosyDaisy]

Interesting choice of words there.

[Sobeknofret]

I adore the pseudo-intellectual bloviating Botkins. I need more from the women of that family- the guys are so boring and predictable! Talk about failure to launch, Elizabeth and Anna Sofia have a solid lock on that issue!

[sea_gale]

On 08/09/2016 at 0:00 AM, CloakNDagger said:

There was half-serious talk at BCA that there needed to be a plan on which side would jump up and fire a volley for fear of a cross-fire. I'd bet the guns ratio to people was about 1:3 there. Not that that is entirely odd or out of the ordinary in other Texas churches.

Sounds a lot like the Brasseye sketch about "the priests who feel they must pack a piece to keep the peace".

[seattlechic]

Oh shit. i had NO clue who these people were. I wish I still didn't. Just read the dad's blog with an open letter to Syrian refugees from last year. I wanted to punch him in the balls with a baseball bat with spikes. 

[akinom]

Do people in the US really bring their guns into church? In old Swedish churches the first room you enter is called the "weapons house" (vapenhus), because that's where churchgoers were supposed to leave any weapons. I can sort of understand not leaving your gun at home or in the car*, but can't churches have some safe place to put them during the service?

 

*In the car would be a really bad idea of course.

[Sobeknofret]

5 hours ago, akinom said:

Do people in the US really bring their guns into church? In old Swedish churches the first room you enter is called the "weapons house" (vapenhus), because that's where churchgoers were supposed to leave any weapons. I can sort of understand not leaving your gun at home or in the car*, but can't churches have some safe place to put them during the service?

 

*In the car would be a really bad idea of course.

I have never in my life been in a church where people were openly carrying, and I've been through a few denominations. People may have been concealed carrying, but certainly no one spoke about it or had to have cross-volley plans (!!!). There have been certainly incidents where people have been shot by someone who came into a service or a building who were armed, but frankly they're so few and far between it seems ludicrous to open carry in church because someone *might* come in with a gun. Frankly, I'd be more afraid of getting shot by some idiot wannabe hero than an actual church shooter.

[Cartmann99]

6 hours ago, akinom said:

Do people in the US really bring their guns into church? In old Swedish churches the first room you enter is called the "weapons house" (vapenhus), because that's where churchgoers were supposed to leave any weapons. I can sort of understand not leaving your gun at home or in the car*, but can't churches have some safe place to put them during the service?

 

*In the car would be a really bad idea of course.

Some churches in the United States even have their own gun ranges.

[Mercer]

On 9/1/2016 at 9:53 AM, Palimpsest said:

So are you saying it was doctrinal differences between BCA and Botkin beliefs that got in the way of courtship/marriage for AS and E?  Why haven't those differences affected the male Botkins ventures into matrimony so much?

I don't know about the Botkins specifically, but in general I do think daughters versus sons could make a big difference.

In these fundie families, the husband is considered the spiritual leader of the home, while the wife is his helpmeet. Thus a father like Geoffery Botkin would likely perceive that his sons would lead their future wives spiritually and his own religious teachings would therefore wind up on top, so a wife who was basically doctrinally compatible would suffice. His daughters, on the other hand, would presumably be led by their husbands - so the other family's teachings would win, so to speak. Any doctrinal points he considered important (and he seems to have a lot of them) would have to be present in the husband's worldview already.

With a less controlling family this would be a nonissue, but Geoff Botkin seems intensely controlling.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

We have people in our church who both conceal- and open-carry. It is something they do all the time so it feels normal to me, not to mention I live in a place where both are very common.   

I'm probably in the minority here, but I honestly don't think that Geoff is somehow preventing his daughters from marrying. I think it's that they are very particular, somewhat comfortable in their current situations (though I feel AS is less so), and the right man simply hasn't come along yet. And as I've said before, if they truly believe that their father and brothers are exemplary men, they're going to have a hard time finding someone to reach the pedestal they've placed their family members on. 

[Hane]

I think that if someone ever carried a firearm into any of the churches I've ever attended here in central Connecticut (Catholic, mainstream Protestant, UU) everyone would have a stroke.

[Cartmann99]

17 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

Some churches in the United States even have their own gun ranges.

Just wanted to clarify that I don't think having a gun range at your church is a positive thing. If members of the church want to have a gun club that regularly meets at a local range to shoot and socialize, fine, whatever, but I personally don't like the idea of anybody other than law enforcement officers bringing a weapon onto church property.  

I just don't get how Joe or Jane Average can be on constant alert to make sure that nobody else touches their gun, continually surveiling the crowd and all entrances for any signs of a disturbance, and direct their full attention to the lesson or sermon at the worship service. Or do the various members of the church who carry, not pay any attention to the service itself, and just station themselves inside and around the outside of the church to watch for signs of trouble?

 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Well, for ours, we're talking people who carry all the time in regular everyday life, so carrying in church is just a normal extension of that. It is not a big deal where we are. None of us bat an eye at it. And we are talking about people who have been shooting since they were young and practice regularly. No one is on high alert guarding doors, I know you're being serious and I'm not teasing you, it just makes me laugh a little to imagine that here. Really, since it's largely a part of the culture around here, it doesn't seem strange. 

[CloakNDagger]

On 9/11/2016 at 4:24 PM, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Well, for ours, we're talking people who carry all the time in regular everyday life, so carrying in church is just a normal extension of that. It is not a big deal where we are. None of us bat an eye at it. And we are talking about people who have been shooting since they were young and practice regularly. No one is on high alert guarding doors, I know you're being serious and I'm not teasing you, it just makes me laugh a little to imagine that here. Really, since it's largely a part of the culture around here, it doesn't seem strange. 

This kind of setup used to be very, very common in rural Texas. I can remember it being very "normal" to see ranch trucks with rifles.

[Howl]

2 hours ago, CloakNDagger said:

This kind of setup used to be very, very common in rural Texas. I can remember it being very "normal" to see ranch trucks with rifles.

Yup, me too, but it was practical (farm, ranch, varmints, snakes, rabid animals) and not a damned statement.  It was also common to see a coiled lariat hanging along with the rifle.  

[Sobeknofret]

1 minute ago, Howl said:

Yup, me too, but it was practical (farm, ranch, varmints, snakes, rabid animals) and not a damned statement.  It was also common to see a coiled lariat hanging along with the rifle.  

Yes, thank you. The local ranchers and farmers always had rifles in their trucks, even when they came to church I suppose (we were Catholic, and went to church "in town" but there was one Presbyterian church and two Baptist churches in our rural area), but no one was carrying a pistol on their hip, pretending to be Rambo.

[CyborgKin]

Does someone have that photo of the Botkins in the kitchen of their home with guns on?

[Marian the Librarian]

7 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

Does someone have that photo of the Botkins in the kitchen of their home with guns on?

Here you go! Found it in the thread titled "Anna Sofia Botkinette Weareth Ebil Jeans."

 

[Elegant Mess]

On September 13, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Marian the Librarian said:

Here you go! Found it in the thread titled "Anna Sofia Botkinette Weareth Ebil Jeans."

 

Wow!  The gun-toting one sure looks mighty proud of himself, doesn't he?

[Howl]

Y'all are aware that at least some of the Botkins have a business called T.Rex Arms?  Notice the T Rex on the lower part of the refrigerator in the photo above.  From the web site trex-arms.com: 

Quote

T.REX ARMS is a company specializing in conventional and unconventional custom Kydex gear. We produce equipment for civilians, competition shooters, law enforcement, contractors, and members of the special operations community.

Kydex is a moldable thermoplastic (is moldable thermoplastic redundant?) and they produce various forms of molded holsters. Anyway, their big thing now is "appendix carry" which looks like the very best  way for a guy to shoot off his entire apparatus with a bonus femoral artery hit.  

 

[Marian the Librarian]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

Y'all are aware that at least some of the Botkins have a business called T.Rex Arms?  Notice the T Rex on the lower part of the refrigerator in the photo above.  From the web site trex-arms.com: 

Kydex is a moldable thermoplastic (is moldable thermoplastic redundant?) and they produce various forms of molded holsters. Anyway, their big thing now is "appendix carry" which looks like the very best  way for a guy to shoot off his entire apparatus with a bonus femoral artery hit.  

 

Check out Lil' Lucas' T.REX ARMS Instagram page, open for all to see. He's positively gun-mad, and pics include many examples of firearms perilously positioned vis-a-vis the family jewels (see example below). Uh, Geoff, about that 200-Year Plan...does it come with basic safety instruction???

https://www.instagram.com/trexarms/

ETA: Well, lookie here! Anna-Sofia's packin' a piece.

Quote

"Special outing with my older sister! Bought her a gen 4 Glock 19."

And it's tagged "brosisdate..."  Eew!