Kate Is Still a Horrible Mother

[Coco]

My husband started to read the book. He stopped on the page where kate is requesting a stupid picky stuff from TLC,

I only want a Crew with no opinions in my home.

Who has no opinions? I can see Kate thinking she was a celebrity and wanted Kobe beef, or a suite in a hotel, but how does TLC find and hire an entire crew with no opinions? and the crew also had to not touch anything, put things in certain places, it was like she treated the crew (who she always refers to as family) like a 5 year old.

She also only wanted crew who were informed and understood she is a frazzled mom of 8 and not to judge her actions.

How did TLC find this crew? and Mr Jim was part of this crew.

what did she do, duct tape their mouths shut? :?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Except she is NOT raising 8 kids by herself. Their father is active in their lives and has them approximately 50% of the time and when she has them she also has "helpers" as she calls them, so she is rarely alone with her kids (and it's been that way since the birth of the sextuplets).

She'd have you think that Jon had died and she does everything on her own, but that is far from reality.

I don't care how many kids you have, you don't need to run your house like boot camp to have well behaved children and certainly not when they are babies. No children should have to "sound off" the order they are required to eat their packed school lunch in. That is a level of control that is well beyond anything that could be considered normal.

He has them every other weekend and then sees them for dinner one night a week (not overnight). So thats like 20%. He doesn't see the twins at all (their choice, poisoned by kate)

[Curious]

He has them every other weekend and then sees them for dinner one night a week (not overnight). So thats like 20%. He doesn't see the twins at all (their choice, poisoned by kate)

If you figure out the amount of time they actually *have* with the kids it's about 50%. Yes they physically live with Kate more, but they are not spending time with her much of that time. They are on the bus/in school the majority of each day during the week. She is not involved in school activities, Jon is. When they are with Jon he is hands on and doesn't have a bunch of "helpers" doing all the childcare.

She would have you think that he spends NO time with the kids and she is doing it all alone, but I would bet that Jon actually spends MORE time actively raising his children than she ever has.

I'm about 80% of the way through the book now. I'm into some newer stuff that happened since the first book was published, I think (it's been a while since I read the first one, so I may be misremembering. I have to check once I'm done with this one).

Overall, the new book is much better. There is still a bit of repetition, but it's WAY better than the first one and it makes a bit more sense. It's repeating stuff that could go in several different areas rather than just weird random repetition like the first book. It's definitely more polished than the first one.

There are a few things that I think take a bit of a large leap and probably could have been left out given the multitudes of things that were pretty concrete, but perhaps there is more background that wasn't presented so it made sense to Robert and doesn't to the average reader.

Once I'm done, I'm going to try and do a bit of a chapter by chapter summary for the blog for the people that are interested but don't want to actually read the book.

[Rowan]

And he says that 10 out of 10 moms he talked to said they never worried about getting pregnant before they developed PCOS... I worried about that constantly bc I'm a worrier and having kids was something I'd always wanted (so I worried it wouldn't happen). Not that any of that says anything about Kate, but I thought it was odd that he used those as reasons Kate was faking PCOS as both applied to me and I know I'm not faking!

I agree - it is something I have been concerned about since I was in my mid-teens. I don't think I've ever had a regular period without BCP so yeah, most females know that irregular periods can be a sign of potential getting pregnant issues in the future. Of course, now that I've hit that magic 35 years old, another scary factor is in play too.

He also hit the "all the similarities between Kate and Bobbi McCaughey" re: things they said too hard and it was off-putting. Some of the comparisons were things that many people would say, especially about HOM births/babies. The Alexis/Joel thing is definitely one that makes you think though - not that both of the names were used, but for the specific birth order.

While I don't disagree that the overall message - that Kate purposely set out to have multiple HOM and get famous and profit from it - is probably pretty accurate, some of his points are kinda grasping for straws. And given the rest of the content (from what I've read so far) - there's plenty of other things that are more solid and less "stretches" anyway.

That said, I would have hated to read the first version if this is the cleaned up and more organized version! It's interesting but probably could have done with a little of the "write the subtopics on notecards and shuffle until they fit into a cohesive flow" strategy I use when I have major synthesis papers to write.

[nana sew dear]

Thank you Curious for the offer to summarize. Kate makes my blood boil. The only thing about her that makes me smile is when I think of TLC throwing her under the bus in the RV trip episodes!

obviously her crew, producers, body guard, nanny, "best friend" and family were pretty damn tired of her bullying. I so loved the guides in the white water rafts who just shrugged at her Napoleon complex.

I have a feeling that knowing the full scope of the abuse once the cameras left will be upsetting. :shock:

[twinmama]

While I don't disagree that the overall message - that Kate purposely set out to have multiple HOM and get famous and profit from it - is probably pretty accurate, some of his points are kinda grasping for straws. And given the rest of the content (from what I've read so far) - there's plenty of other things that are more solid and less "stretches" anyway.

This exactly. The things that were grasping being things that I have done or felt got to me a tad. Just because I know that I certainly never gave a thought to having multiples and I'm sure as shit not profiting from it! lol

Also everything he says about HCG shots is wrong according to what I know from my IVF cycle and IUI cycles. HCG is a one time shot, not an egg stimulating shot. It just does the final maturation and releases the eggs. You take other drugs to stimulate egg growth, or at least I did. Gonal-F and Follistim were the two big ones I used a few years ago. HCG was just one shot 36 hours before my IVF cycle.

[Curious]

This exactly. The things that were grasping being things that I have done or felt got to me a tad. Just because I know that I certainly never gave a thought to having multiples and I'm sure as shit not profiting from it! lol

Also everything he says about HCG shots is wrong according to what I know from my IVF cycle and IUI cycles. HCG is a one time shot, not an egg stimulating shot. It just does the final maturation and releases the eggs. You take other drugs to stimulate egg growth, or at least I did. Gonal-F and Follistim were the two big ones I used a few years ago. HCG was just one shot 36 hours before my IVF cycle.

I think that his point on the HCG shot is that she was told to skip that round because there were too many potential eggs maturing and sent home and then somehow magically ended up pregnant with 7.

The "anti-Kate" blogs have kind of always assumed that they sent her home with a "no sex" order due to the potential for HOM and she disregarded that advice and went at it anyway, but according to Robert, she had the HCG shot at home that would have matured those eggs and made them release.

I *think* that section was written a bit differently than it was in the first book and also a bit differently than her normal telling of how that cycle went down, but I'm going from memory so I haven't double checked that yet.

[twinmama]

I was just being nitpicky on the name of the shot, but it doesn't really change that she was told not to proceed with the cycle and did anyway. My own RE told me he would not go forward with an IUI if there were too many eggs, and he would not transfer more than 2 embryos in my IVF cycle (thankfully as we transferred two and both stuck! we did NOT want more than twins). I was also extensively warned about the possibility of OHSS and ended up being borderline for it so my IVF cycle had to end a day early bc my numbers were starting to sky rocket (didn't end up mattering as I got pregnant anyway).

It is SO scary to hunt down doctors to do unethical or borderline unethical things for you. If the original doctor that you trust won't do something, there is probably a good reason!!

And while I would never wish micropreemies or disabilities on anyone, it GALLS me that Kate did all of this specifically to have HOMs and got 6 healthy babies when so many women have trouble with just 1, 2, 3 babies. No sane person would try for HOMs because of the risks, and Kate is endlessly rewarded for it. Gross.

[Curious]

And while I would never wish micropreemies or disabilities on anyone, it GALLS me that Kate did all of this specifically to have HOMs and got 6 healthy babies when so many women have trouble with just 1, 2, 3 babies. No sane person would try for HOMs because of the risks, and Kate is endlessly rewarded for it. Gross.

That is the one area where some higher power was truly looking out for those kids. I can't even imagine the daily hell that a disabled child (or children) would go through living with her as their mother. While it's no picnic for her healthy children, at least as adults, they will hopefully be able to escape from her.

Several of them obviously already have her number and aren't afraid to "give back" in the attitude area, at least on occasion. I, personally, cheer every time we see evidence of any of the kids showing a little bit of personality, because it gives me hope she hasn't totally broken all their spirits. While their behavior may not be what I would expect from my own children at that age, the fact that they are willing to buck the system when she is quick to punish makes me think at least a few of them may get away from her and with therapy lead a relatively happy adult life.

Not to mention the lengths she would go to exploiting a disabled child, given what she does with the healthy ones.

[twinmama]

Ugh, you are so right Curious. I think from now on I'll probably just keep that in mind. Thank goodness those children are healthy and able to get away from her the day they turn 18 if they want! What a sad life to live for your childhood though, if they are counting down to escape. Just another example of the cycle of abuse, given what Kate went through herself as a child (according to the book). I hope against hope that the children will break the cycle in their own lives.

This may be a silly question, I'm not sure, but is there any way that they will be barred from speaking ill of Kate? The way she is said to have put gag orders on everyone who came into contact with the family, is it possible she could stop the children from writing tell alls when they're adults?

[silverspoons]

.

This may be a silly question, I'm not sure, but is there any way that they will be barred from speaking ill of Kate? The way she is said to have put gag orders on everyone who came into contact with the family, is it possible she could stop the children from writing tell alls when they're adults?

I have wondered this as well. An iphone can buy the silence of a tween/teen but not an adult. I wonder if Kate has thought of this. Do the kids know their college money is in a trust? Kate might hold paying for college over them? but in reality I don't think she can. I guess the bribes would be cars or apartments but would Kate spend that much to buy her kids silence.

Lets say one kid becomes vocal to the media, like Mady, Kate might threaten the younger ones and do damage control. She would say Mady is at a stage or a rebel. She would say I have 7 kids that adore me and one that is just at a bad stage.

[Curious]

I have a summary of the Preface up on the blog: http://blog.freejinger.org/chapter-summ ... ld-preface

Hopefully, I'll be doing more than 1 chapter at a time. I don't want to make the posts too long, though. I was short on time for that one, too.

I'll just see how it goes I guess.

[Palimpsest]

I have a summary of the Preface up on the blog: http://blog.freejinger.org/chapter-summ ... ld-preface

Hopefully, I'll be doing more than 1 chapter at a time. I don't want to make the posts too long, though. I was short on time for that one, too.

I'll just see how it goes I guess.

Thanks. I have to admit the first version was almost unreadable but I bought it. I skimmed it primarily for the TLC contracts (god they were stinking awful) that are not reproduced in this version. I may borrow the new version on Prime when I can.

I'm really torn on Hoffman. I think he does have evidence (the disks) and he got them (legally and with no JG help) from the trash. OTOH, the evidence should stand for itself without his commentary and interpretation.

His over-the-top commentary, and over-the-top interpretation on not much evidence (see the plot to get pregnant with multiples), and stalkerish bible-quoting publicity campaigns make me not like him very much.

[Cheetah]

His over-the-top commentary, and over-the-top interpretation on not much evidence (see the plot to get pregnant with multiples), and stalkerish bible-quoting publicity campaigns make me not like him very much.

I'm about 1/3 of the way through this, maybe a little more. Never followed the Gosselins when they were on tv (knew about them, mostly from just seeing tabloid headlines). It's a good read just from a snarky /gossipy point of view, but yeah, still not especially well organized, and I agree with your review above. He seems personally offended by Kate not going to church anymore (above and beyond her getting money out of Christian groups). And while her discipline sounds horrific, the author's scolding of her makes it sound like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth and he's never, ever, ever gotten frustrated with his own children.

[Palimpsest]

Disclaimer: only going by the old version from memory.

I thought it was unfortunate that he started with the nefarious plot to conceive HOMs. His theory seemed to be based on some receipt from Canada, supposed confirmation by an anonymous family member (with family yapping private business like that who needs enemies?) and a whole lot of refried internet speculation. I know sod all about PCOS and very little about infertility treatments but it didn't ring true for me. Not withstanding the other Octomom, who the hell would take those kind of risks and what kind of Dr. would fall for the scam?

It seemed too far-fetched for people who are just casual viewers of K&8 and the way he wrote it took away a lot of the impact of some really chilling journal references later. Those I can easily believe are true.

And ITA with Hoffman's presentation of himself as the most perfect Dad ever! :)

Anyone want to bet that Kate is busy today copyrighting her Nanny Manual. Breaking news (not really, I guess it is a few days old). The National Enquirer has got hold of a former nanny and has printed excerpts of the musings of the employer from hell. I've not read the article and think the National Enquirer is a rag, but they've broken much bigger stories before. Think John Edwards.

[twinmama]

Unfortunately I know all about PCOS (I have it) and infertility treatments (I've done them), but it doesn't ring true to me the way he presents it. I have no doubt Kate wanted HOMs, but he gets some PCOS info wrong, he makes a big deal of things that don't mean anything, and he gets some facts about the infertility treatments and drugs wrong too. All that being in error makes it a little hard to come to his same conclusions.

Since Kate was not doing IVF (what Octomom and her horrifically unethical doctor did), but IUI, I believe that it would not be that hard to find a doctor to help her. With IUI, they would stimulate eggs to be produced, then when 2 to 4 were ready they'd trigger (hCG is a trigger shot to start the final maturation of the eggs and trigger the release, 36 hours before IUI). If too many eggs were produced, the doctor would cancel the cycle, but the woman could still go have sex and fertilize as many eggs as she wants. She'd already have the trigger shot so even if the cycle was canceled at the doctor, she could still release the eggs. What I don't believe is that Kate could sneak extra shots to produce extra eggs that the doc somehow doesn't know about and does an IUI anyway. I had SO MANY ultrasounds to check how many follicles were forming, like every day of stims and day of IUI. My doctor knew exactly what to expect. My guess is that if she gave herself extra shots (not of hCG, which I don't think stimulates new eggs to grow, just final maturation and release), she had sex to get pregnant with the sextuplets, not IUI.

[Curious]

I just reread the portion of the new book and it says that she didn't "destroy the HCG packaging" No one is going to just have HCG laying around for any other reason that I'm aware of, plus presumably there would be dates on the packaging marking it as being from before the time the sextuplets were born.

I think he could have explained things a little better, but on the other hand, getting into an in depth description of fertility procedures is going to be over many people's heads and potentially fall into the TMI category. I think he was trying to give an overview without it being too technical, but in doing so it sounds off to people that actually understand the process.

The fact remains that the things he's been called on, he's been able to offer proof to show he knows what he's talking about AND (most importantly, IMO) Kate hasn't sued him for DEFAMATION. She's sued him, but not for defamation and that's the kicker for me.

[lilith]

I think the author would have been better off passing the info he acquired on to someone who a) wasn't as personally involved as he was, and b) was a professional writer.

I'm about a third of the way through the book, and while the material is fascinating it is poorly written and his obvious agenda takes away from the facts that are well able to speak for themselves.

I understand the author being appalled by Kate and protective of Jon and the kids, I just think his closeness to the situation makes him a less than ideal candidate to author this book. Even working with a co-writer, especially one with a background in investigative journalism, would have helped a lot and would have resulted in the book being much more readable and being viewed as much more credible.

[Palimpsest]

I just reread the portion of the new book and it says that she didn't "destroy the HCG packaging" No one is going to just have HCG laying around for any other reason that I'm aware of, plus presumably there would be dates on the packaging marking it as being from before the time the sextuplets were born.

I think he could have explained things a little better, but on the other hand, getting into an in depth description of fertility procedures is going to be over many people's heads and potentially fall into the TMI category. I think he was trying to give an overview without it being too technical, but in doing so it sounds off to people that actually understand the process.

The fact remains that the things he's been called on, he's been able to offer proof to show he knows what he's talking about AND (most importantly, IMO) Kate hasn't sued him for DEFAMATION. She's sued him, but not for defamation and that's the kicker for me.

You may well be right. I really don't know. And she withdrew her idiot SLAPP lawsuit. That was amusing in and of itself. :P

I just have to repeat, it was unfortunate that he started with the plot to have HOMs. I know it was an attempt at being chronological and the whole thing must have been a nightmare to edit -- but the evidence was unconvincing on the nefarious plot. Perez is attacking it with heavy sarcasm as we speak.

From a casual reader's POV, it detracted from the main stuff. The stuff that he has much better evidence for. The chilling Journal entries (in the original version those quotes from Kate rang so true but I guess they are diluted now) and the contracts and emails to and from Discovery/Figure8/TLC were dreadful. Sick on so many levels, but so much better documented and credible.

Those contracts and emails (in the original version) are godawful. Iniquitous. I can't imagine any sane parent signing off on the contracts (even with inadequate legal counsel). I give Jon a desperation break on that from innocence, but IMO Kate was the driver in all of this.

I can't imagine any decent person writing those emails attributed to Kate. But I strongly believe that they are true.

Is that clearer on my analysis of the book? Repeat disclaimer on only reacting to old version.

[Mama Mia]

Haven't read the book but somehow I got sucked into the Jon and Kate plus 8 marathon TLC is doing right now. I only caught a couple episodes when it originally aired. OMG that is one horrible woman! On the little bit I had originally seen I remember thinking it was good to see a mom who wasn't sugary sweet all the time, but had no idea she was a total bitch 90% of the time. Every single solitary thing irritates her. And she is so pushy and bossy and know it all. Yuck. Those poor kids. I was often, unfortunately, a screamer of a mom ( we also had 8) but thank God not so constantly critical. And the parts that the worst to me, is that she doesn't seem to even realize that she's just mean. Most parents lose it once in awhile, but at least you are supposed to know you SHOULD be nice.

I also watched the clips I could find of Mady and Cara that are recent. I'm actually worried about Cara. She seems like a normally chatty kid when the show was on --- but as a teen she seems really, really off somehow. Maybe on the special she comes across differently ( I hope ) but in interviews she is not only completely silent but seems like she's not even there. Poor kid.

eta: and I usually think it's silly to try to judge the reality show kids development based on the tiny snippets we see, but her demeanor was soooooo far off it is concerning.

[Coconut Flan]

From interviews with a nanny: radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/07/kate-gosselin-nanny-tell-all-rule-book/

[twinmama]

Those poor kids. I was often, unfortunately, a screamer of a mom ( we also had 8) but thank God not so constantly critical. And the parts that the worst to me, is that she doesn't seem to even realize that she's just mean. Most parents lose it once in awhile, but at least you are supposed to know you SHOULD be nice.

I also yell at my kids way too much. Though I don't know how anyone would NOT yell when they are climbing onto the window sill for the 50th time that day. But Kate takes it to another level completely. The things she'd get mad about... god, she must be so exhausted from being so angry! There are so many things kids do "wrong" (they're just learning!) that if I flipped out to her level over them, I would not make it through one day. I remember one toddler (like under 2 years possibly!) messily eating an ice cream and Kate flipping out. I mean, don't give your baby a damn ice cream if you can't handle them eating messily!!! It's not like the kid even threw it (that drives me crazy when my toddlers throw food), she just dripped it.

[16strong]

Wow. So Kate couldn't even buy something like a set of lockers for her staff to keep their things in when they arrived for work? If she is that anal retentive about clutter, then she needs to purchase proper storage for everyone.

[Curious]

Haven't read the book but somehow I got sucked into the Jon and Kate plus 8 marathon TLC is doing right now. I only caught a couple episodes when it originally aired. OMG that is one horrible woman! On the little bit I had originally seen I remember thinking it was good to see a mom who wasn't sugary sweet all the time, but had no idea she was a total bitch 90% of the time. Every single solitary thing irritates her. And she is so pushy and bossy and know it all. Yuck. Those poor kids. I was often, unfortunately, a screamer of a mom ( we also had 8) but thank God not so constantly critical. And the parts that the worst to me, is that she doesn't seem to even realize that she's just mean. Most parents lose it once in awhile, but at least you are supposed to know you SHOULD be nice.

I also watched the clips I could find of Mady and Cara that are recent. I'm actually worried about Cara. She seems like a normally chatty kid when the show was on --- but as a teen she seems really, really off somehow. Maybe on the special she comes across differently ( I hope ) but in interviews she is not only completely silent but seems like she's not even there. Poor kid.

eta: and I usually think it's silly to try to judge the reality show kids development based on the tiny snippets we see, but her demeanor was soooooo far off it is concerning.

I think the difference between Kate and what I would call a "normal" mom who screams at her kids, even maybe a lot, is they realize that she seems to get JOY out of doing it. She gets almost gleeful when she gets a chance to cause one of the kids pain in some way, which I think most moms find disturbing.

The episodes that illustrate this to me the most that I can think of off the top of my head are:

1. Cupcake gate - denying the boys their birthday cupcakes

2. Collin's "lovey" gate - threatening to throw away his special toy because it has a speck of gum on it.

3. The K+8 ep where they go out on the fishing boat and all the kids get seasick and are throwing up.

The other thing she does which most people don't is pit the siblings against each other every chance she gets.

[twinmama]

Collin's lovey episode was just heartbreaking. I wasn't even a mom when I saw it, but I looooooved (uh, love present tense too) my childhood blanket and if my mom threatened to do anything to it, I would have had some kind of breakdown of anxiety. And now that I have children and see how they love their teddy bear and monkey, I can't say one mean thing about those animals because my boys love them SO MUCH. I would never, ever threaten to take them. Poor little guy was probably so scared.