John Shrader Pt 9- Zealous in Zambia

[samurai_sarah]

Carry on from here:

 

[countressrascal]

I guess John-boy is hoping for HH to win the election because he has announced that he is opening a bible college. Let's see if that really happens. HH campaign billboard always had a bible verse on them. It was weird. Results have not been announced yet. 

[CTRLZero]

Give a man a printer, and he can start up a mighty (though unaccredited) college.  Would that be COTDRT? 
 

Quote

 

We are not seeking to build a big "college", but a faithful church that raises up and trains men, as the Lord Jesus Christ modeled for us . In this country, they desire men that have some type of documentation to show that they are not charlatans or con artists, so the ministry carries a name that will assure the authorities that our men have been given careful preparation in the Word of God.

We are not accredited, nor will we seek such, for that is not our goal. We are simply seeking to equip the saints for the work of the ministry, underneath the Biblically authorized local church ministry, the "pillar and ground of the Truth."

The training will continue to be hands-on, but we are even now printing and binding the doctrinally solid training materials that will supplement the practical ministry such as preaching, teaching, evangelism and bush ministry with serious study of God's Word!

 

I'm sure John will be printing out the very documentation that will unquestionably prove they are not charlatans or con artists.  (Above quote box from his Facebook page, my bolding.)

[Coconut Flan]

If John is writing they're sunk from the get go.

[formergothardite]

Are there rules about opening a Bible college in Zambia? If anyone can set up shop and print out diplomas, then it seems pretty worthless. But what I'm getting from that is that people in Zambia have not been taking John's followers seriously and want to know about their education. This is annoying John greatly, so he is going to start printing out diplomas as fast as he  can. 

[Howl]

 

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

But what I'm getting from that is that people in Zambia have not been taking John's followers seriously and want to know about their education. This is annoying John greatly, so he is going to start printing out diplomas as fast as he  can. 

Alas, John has finally taken a trip to the bush, with very mixed results, and likely doesn't want to go there again. Training other people for "bush ministry" by way of  an unaccredited "Bible College" sounds an awful lot like a Trump University scam.  It's obvious from his own description that it isn't a college at all, but is a way to indoctrinate local people with John's unique set of beliefs and send them out to do the work that he's failing at doing.   

It also bears pointing out, John has been in Zambia for quite some time and has failed at establishing a viable church.   Where are the "Bible College" students going to come from?  

A quick google search shows that there are already some well established Bible colleges in Zambia

The International Bible College

Quote

Though still under development, the college was opened with the first twelve Zambian students in January, 2009.  The professors, both Africans and foreigners, offer a full, four-year course of study with 120 credits.  Though theology is the primary course of study, every student is also trained in the fundamentals of building, agriculture, livestock, and other practicals. 

FUNDING THE EDUCATION //
All accepted students attend the college free of charge, but are required to participate in a work scholarship program. Their work, which is primarily focused on agriculture, helps to develop their character and to provide the necessary food for college consumption, as well as revenue generation.

And here's Lusaka Bible College,

Quote

Lusaka Bible College is located in Kanyama, an impoverished township that is home to about 300,000 people outside Lusaka, Zambia. The college offers evening classes so that the pastors can improve themselves and study to be equipped for their ministry after hours.

Because most of the pastors in Africa have no formal training at all, this in-service-training is ideally suited to Africa, offering an opportunity for pastors to learn.

Most of the students already have church responsibilities, so Lusaka Bible College is providing leadership training through evening lectures for those who are already doing the work of pastors and evangelists, as well as a lighted place where pastors of the area can study and prepare to shepherd their flocks.

Would John reach out to support those who don't pass his religious purity test or (gasp!) women?  (Lusaka Bible College has women students)

Those damn über-heretical 7th Day Adventists already have something going called The Riverside Farm Institute in Kafue with a farm, a mill, a wellness center, a health clinic, a library and practical courses like tailoring, nutrition, training to be a lifestyle educator and scientific gardening. 

What about the chickens, John? 

[slickcat79]

I'm sure the "bible college" (see John, I can use scare quotes too!) will go the way of the plane, the well, and the chickens. Another of John's grand ideas that will gain almost no traction and will rarely be mentioned again. It's a little concerning to me that he seems to be cycling through ideas so much faster these days. 

I don't know why he feels so encouraged that this is the best step for him to take. It's not like his 2+ years in Zambia have been a resounding success. He has a handful of guys to disciple, but they're pretty much only there because they have literally nowhere else to go, or because they see the value in hitching themselves to John's coattails. If my only job opportunities would make me a few dollars a month, I might attach myself to the guy with near-unlimited 'Murican money too. 

[Palimpsest]

14 hours ago, countressrascal said:

I guess John-boy is hoping for HH to win the election because he has announced that he is opening a bible college. Let's see if that really happens. HH campaign billboard always had a bible verse on them. It was weird. Results have not been announced yet. 

The election looks neck and neck at the moment.

Heh!  John's Bible College.  Have Bible, print diploma, and behold he has a "college."  He's always wanted to have a training institute and was going to "build on" Bobby Bonner's idea.  He's also in direct competition with Voddie Baucham's African Christian "University" in Lusaka.

 https://www.facebook.com/African-Christian-University-108426315848593/

ACU has students paying tuition - to learn how to build the campus 'biblically."  

[countressrascal]

John boy is still on a permanent visitor VISA, he has not been able to get a work VISA because he has not been able to get a Zambia registered missionary organization to support or sponsor  him. In view of that he can not start something i.e. bible college that charges tuition without being arrested and deported. That is why he only gives away water to his followers, now the chicken ranch might pass because his employees are citizens but I am not sure. During his services he can't pass the collection plate nor ask for funds, only have a something that people can drop money into. His VISA status is one reason there is no plane along with the fact that his license that he got in the US has no standing in Zambia, he needs an international private commercial, plus the aviation tax for a foreign national to own a plane is expensive over $500 euro per month then there are all the other expenses he can't afford it. 

Zambia is in very poor shape-their main export was copper to China the market collapsed so the mines closed. China also pulled a lot of their economic support that was used for schools, medical services and inter structure. Inflation is over 50%, just to give you an example when I arrived May 25th we purchased a lot of basic medical supplies for the kits we were using in the project, it cost 285 euro when we went back to re supply three weeks later the same supplies cost 600 euro. Plus they are in the middle of a drought. Economy is the major factor in the election. Another thing that was on the ballot was to make homosexual and prostitution illegal also increase the age of consent to 18 from 14. I am waiting to see the outcome. 

[Palimpsest]

@countressrascal Thanks for the info.

What about the purchase of the land for the church.  Did he have to put that in the name of a Zambian national.  It looked that way when I went over the government regs.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, slickcat79 said:

It's a little concerning to me that he seems to be cycling through ideas so much faster these days.

He is blowing through new grand ideas pretty fast now. So far, from what I can remember these are the things he has started and then dropped

~Plane ministry

~Building a Bible display case.

~Printing ministry(in reality he isn't actually doing much)

~Miracle Well to give away water

~Chicken idea

~Timothy Training House(people are living there, but it doesn't seem to live up to his grand claims)

~House on the Hill

~His magazine Truth Teller

And now he is going to start an unaccredited college, which I doubt will go far. 

[countressrascal]

26 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@countressrascal Thanks for the info.

What about the purchase of the land for the church.  Did he have to put that in the name of a Zambian national.  It looked that way when I went over the government regs.

I can't answer that question-under his VISA status he can not owe any type of real estate or engage in any type of commercial enterprise plus we had to deposit with the government cost of returning his entire family to the US unless his supporting US organization signed a statement that they would accept the cost. I think that he purchased that land using the name of his buddy that he had before coming. 

[Gobsmacked]

He had to deposit his return fares with the government on his entry ?

[Howl]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Heh!  John's Bible College.  Have Bible, print diploma, and behold he has a "college."  He's always wanted to have a training institute and was going to "build on" Bobby Bonner's idea.  He's also in direct competition with Voddie Baucham's African Christian "University" in Lusaka.

 https://www.facebook.com/African-Christian-University-108426315848593/

ACU has students paying tuition - to learn how to build the campus 'biblically."  

I can't stand the thought that Voddie Beauchamp, child beater extraordinaire and generally awful person, is poisoning the minds of young Africans.   But the fact that he's involved with a viable college and John is floundering in the trenches....

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

But the fact that he's involved with a viable college and John is floundering in the trenches....

If you look a bit more closely, Voddie's swanky, brand new, and totally unaccredited "University" isn't viable.  The big differences are that it appears to have better financing, a lot out of South Africa apparently, and does seem to have some rubber-stamp Zambians on the BoD.   

ACU has very fancy goals and proposals but it is a real piece of shit.  It could, at least in theory, do more harm than John because Voddie and Co. are cleverer and at least there working legally.

3 hours ago, countressrascal said:

had to deposit with the government cost of returning his entire family to the US unless his supporting US organization signed a statement that they would accept the cost.

Yes, I remember this when I looked at the rules governing missionaries in Zambia a couple of years and several threads back.  The "Sending Church" had to commit to covering all his expenses in country and pay for his return if necessary.  I didn't know that a deposit was required.  

[gustava]

5 hours ago, countressrascal said:

ohn boy is still on a permanent visitor VISA,

How long can he be a permanent visitor?  I feel stupid asking, but in this case, does permanent mean forever?

[Howl]

Question: Are John's projects (that never involve doing work or completing the project) limited by his visa status (or lack of one)?

Too close to call: no winner announced yet in the Zambian presidential election.  

[samurai_sarah]

2 hours ago, gustava said:

How long can he be a permanent visitor?  I feel stupid asking, but in this case, does permanent mean forever?

I wondered too, so I tried to find answers via the Zambia Department of Immigration. From what I can tell, Shrader is in Zambia on a "Visiting Permit".

Quote

The Visiting Permit is issued to foreign visitors who intend to ordinarily visit Zambia for a period exceeding ninety days.  The current regulation is that ordinary visitors are entitled to an accumulative ninety (90) days visit within one's calendar year. After the expiry of the initial free ninety days, if such a person wants to stay longer,  they can apply for a visiting permit for a fee which will be valid for an additional ninety day period.  Visitors should note that an application for a visiting permit must be done thirty (30) days before the expiry of the initial ninety days.

 

So, basically, he has to constantly re-apply, I think.

Source: http://www.zambiaimmigration.gov.zm/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=62

[Coconut Flan]

Can anyone imagine John keeping up with re-applying every 3 months for the whole family?

[ViolaSebastian]

47 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Can anyone imagine John keeping up with re-applying every 3 months for the whole family?

I get the distinct feeling that this falls under Esther's jurisdiction.

[countressrascal]

He has some type of resident foreign national VISA that last for a year, he must go to the police department every year to re-register him and his family. If he does not they can take the "Truth Mobile", when he registers at the same time, then they collect the vehicle tax. He can't get away not doing this because he is well known plus the "Truth Mobile" has stickers all over it about being saved you can't miss it Also his landlord can not rent to him without a valid VISTA, they can be arrested and pay a fine. He did have to finally vaccinate the kids or they would not issue him this VISA. Plus when he registers every year he has to submit a statement of how much foreign support he has received, which includes goods and $$$ on the good he has to pay a tax if he can't prove that he paid on the way into the country. There is a fee to register every year.

VISA might be one issue regarding his projects not getting done, my feeling is that he is lazy and does not do research before starting out. Plane is the perfect example-did not have the correct license nor VISA plus did not research the aviation tax and how much it would cost him. Chicken Ranch, he knows nothing about raising chicken plus Zambia chickens are free range. He is just plain dumb.

[Inky]

Is the chicken ranch a bust then? I hadn't read anything on here about it and just assumed someone else was feeding/cleaning etc. 

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

Just for posterity (and to remind myself of the date), I had to go and find John's chicken coop post of 7/8.
It's a pretty sizable structure.  So, is it just going to sit empty?
They'd been working on it since "around January".  He's doesn't seem to be sure.  
And this:
"Security grill windows and doors are almost ready, so Lord willing and the Saints don't rise (the Rapture), the guys should be kicking off the first batch of 600 chickens in a week or two."

So, John's already running about a month late with that endeavor.  
Now that he's founded his own bible college, maybe it will serve as classrooms or a dormitory.  

 https://www.facebook.com/john.shrader.125/posts/10206636452700210 

 

[nastyhobbitses]

9 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Can anyone imagine John keeping up with re-applying every 3 months for the whole family?

Nope. A part of me hopes that the immigration officials will nail him for overstaying or for doing unauthorized activities on the visa. I know that he's not paying taxes or working for a Zambian company, but visitor/tourist/student visas are usually pretty strict about how much work you can do. I'm only allowed to work 20 hours per week on my UK student visa, for instance. And if he's doing constant visa runs/re-applications (which I doubt he has the intelligence and organizational skills to do consistently), a lot of countries catch onto that pretty quick. I know that Thailand and China have started cracking down on foreigners just getting short-term visas and indefinitely extending their stays by running to Hong Kong or Cambodia every 90/180 days to restart the clock on a multi-entry or get a new, identical visa (not apply for a longer-term one -- I did that when I lived in China; I was on an F visa for internships/short-term work, and flew to Hong Kong to switch it to a Z resident/business visa which would let me legally work full-time and come and go as I please).

[gustava]

12 hours ago, countressrascal said:

He did have to finally vaccinate the kids or they would not issue him this VISA.

Good!!!!