Bill Gothard, God, and sexual molestation

[molecule]

I just read the lawsuit, and it made me ill. I was struck not only by the things that happened but by the fact that the patterns of harassment, abuse, reflect, and minimizing went on for such a long period of time. This stuff was happening for several decades.

The descriptions of Gothard sitting with his legs apart so the girls (aka, "energy givers") would see that he had an erection was weird, creepy, and gross.

[Crocoduck]

After reading the Washington Post article, I know I don't have the stomach to read the actual lawsuit, but I am so glad these abuses and cover ups are coming to light.

While they all deserve to be locked up in a dark cell, at the very least I would love to see IBLP bankrupted by this.

Gothard is an old man and chances are this is going to be the literal end of him. Dying in disgrace is not punishment enough, but I think it's the most we can hope for.

[ksgranola1]

I just read thru the law suit & I was so horrified. It explains a lot about Josh.

Wow. And it also sounds like when M&JB went to him about Josh, he advised them to not report it until the statutes of limitations was up.

And what makes me sicker about this, is that Gill Bates is up to his earlobes in this mess. He knew it all; all the complaints, the sham investigation, the creep that Gothard is. It may take years, but this organization is going to blow to pieces, one day.

And the adoption thing! I am so surprised that JB&M and Jessa so willfully are disobeying Gothard's teachings on this matter, after towing the Gothard line to the max all these years.

 

[Whoosh]

5 hours ago, molecule said:

I just read the lawsuit, and it made me ill. I was struck not only by the things that happened but by the fact that the patterns of harassment, abuse, reflect, and minimizing went on for such a long period of time. This stuff was happening for several decades.

The descriptions of Gothard sitting with his legs apart so the girls (aka, "energy givers") would see that he had an erection was weird, creepy, and gross.

I totally agree with you that, while I knew the timeframe and the cover-up from reading on FJ, it was really striking to read the lawsuit.  I hope I can say this without people reading it wrong, but Gothard's behavior is not what is the hardest for me to understand or maybe most surprising.  He is a child molester and an abuser of power and control.  Whether he is primarily interested in people over or under 18, it is abundantly clear to ME that his interests are grossly inappropriate in terms of his attraction to teens.  I get all that, but it isn't surprising to me (sadly) and while I don't understand it in terms of "I relate", I understand it in terms of "I know this exists and it is far, far too common".  As I was reading through the lawsuit, I was noticing dates and then one of the plaintiff's is born in the same year as I am and that made me really start thinking about the time-frame that this was going on and no one did anything.  Then, reading over and over about the copy machine I was just horrified picturing all those people who worked at headquarters over all those years and they KNEW and he was doing it right there at the copy machine and people - what?  Did they just turn around and send their fax?  Grab a donut?  I just can not understand that in any way.

[HereticHick]

So, will Gil be flying to Chicago shortly for another meeting?  Does the Pecan Thief have to return from Big Sandy to deal with this?

A question for the degreed law & real estate professionals out there-- when a lawsuit like this is out there, can it cause a temporary halt to Gothard's attempts to sell the properties in Oak Brook & Nashville and regroup in Big Sandy? Or should it make ATI even more eager to sell in order to have liquid assets?

[Whoosh]

6 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

So, will Gil be flying to Chicago shortly for another meeting?  Does the Pecan Thief have to return from Big Sandy to deal with this?

A question for the degreed law & real estate professionals out there-- when a lawsuit like this is out there, can it cause a temporary halt to Gothard's attempts to sell the properties in Oak Brook & Nashville and regroup in Big Sandy? Or should it make ATI even more eager to sell in order to have liquid assets?

I hope someone can confirm this, but if I recall correctly the complaint specifically explains that IBLP is trying to liquidate there 100+ million in holdings and "flee" the jurisdiction.  Again, if I recall correctly, the complaint has requested that IBLP assets be frozen for that reason.

[AlwaysExcited]

Dear Jessa and Ben, please, never mention the word "adoption" again.

[Alicja]

Bleed them out, ladies. This has been going on for far too long.

My prayers and happy thoughts are with them. May Gothard burn in hell.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

11 hours ago, 47of74 said:

Seriously Fuckabee is really starting to wear out his welcome with me, and for that matter so are all the GOP candidates running around Iowa.  It just boils my water that they fight over Iowans like prizes to be awarded to the victor. 

Another Iowan! I don't even live there anymore but I've still got a 515 number so I'm getting 2 or 3 calls a day from pollsters and campaigns. I cringe so hard hearing far-right candidates talk about "Iowa values"... speak for yourselves, idiots!

[SledCat]

I would guess Gothard's whole institute was so dependent on him as the "leader" and face of the brand, that they would have done anything to make sure that he stayed in that leadership position. Including protecting him from the potential fallout from his little indiscretions. When I was reading Recovering Grace a while back, a poster mentioned that Gothard's behavior was pretty much an "open secret" in certain circles since the early 80s.

I have pretty much as much contempt for the IBLP board, as I do for Gothard himself. I believe they probably knew exactly what was going on, but chose to protect their brand at the expense of the victims.

It was much easier to sweep things under the rug a couple of decades ago. Not so easy now though, thanks to the internet.

[formergothardite]

I'm not sure that they are as dependent on Gothard as I thought in the past because they were perfectly happy to kick him out when they got the opportunity and as soon as he became a huge liability. I think what the real issue is right now is that they are dependent on the money and power. In the past I have though people like Gil and Chad's father were just really brainwashed, but now I think they are just evil greedy bastards who are perfectly fine with sacrificing abused teens and young women at the altar of money. 

[gustava]

2 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Sorry, I was not clear.  I'm not worried about your post.  I'm concerned, and have been for some time, about Jana being a special favorite, so I was agreeing with you.  However, I am not always clear as to what we can say about the adult Duggars, Joshie being an exception; he's a turd.

[notfundy]

Does anyone have a thought on why Gothard never married?  He didn't right, if Wikipedia is correct.

It's rather odd, that's all, for a person with his belief system to never marry.  In men of his age/generation, I often make the assumption (could be wrong, I know) that it's because they're gay and just haven't come out.   In his case, it does seem there is a perverse attraction to young women/girls.    

Just odd.  Am I off base on evening wondering about this?   I don't, by the way, think it's "odd" for people not to marry (in general).    I have friends, relatives who have chosen not do for a myriad of different reasons. 

Just that in his case, the union between "one man and one woman" seems so important; I can't figure out why he did not enter into such a union.

????   

[gustava]

He lived with his mother.

[maple802]

If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Dr. Paine returned to active medical practice? Seems to me that his medical license could be in jeopardy if there are allegations that he didn't report abuse. Doctors are definitely in the category of individuals who are required to report under state mandatory reporting statutes.

[nolongerIFBx]

I would always gravitate to believing the victim. That said, PIV sex is a whole other ball game. PIV sex means all Gothard's claims of virginity are false. It is a major lie, not just a mistake, a little too far, none of us are perfect, etc. Footsies and excessive hand holding can possibly be explained away. PIV sex cannot. Up to this point, the worst that had been alleged was the feeling of the genitals under the clothes.¹ Of course, this is the worst that someone was willing to write an RG article about which does not mean that Gothard's actions did not go far beyond that with many others who could not or did not want to write an article about their abuse.

Legally, I'm speculative (?), concerned about adding Gothard and the alleged PIV rape to the lawsuit. For the lawyers on FJ, would it not be more likely for a cases against Gothard only and IBLP only to be won rather than combining them? What if the judge/jury feels Gothard is guilty but doesn't hold the IBLP board responsible (since many of them were not on the board at the time of the abuses, as I understand) or--hard to imagine!--they don't find Gothard guilty but do hold IBLP responsible for not reporting other abuses (students who confessed about physical and sexual abuse perpetrated by someone other than Gothard)? Can they separate the defendants at that point, or does the whole case get thrown out and neither defendant can be retried due to double jeopardy?

¹ The "feeling of the genitals" victim had been previously sexually abused. Gothard would not be the first predator to justify these more extreme actions by thinking that this girl was already not "pure" so it wasn't that bad. One of the many major faults with the purity culture! (and a particular beef of mine!)

[HereticHick]

I've said it before, and I know that some don't agree with me, but there is no way the Gothard HQ fiscal/legal problems can continue without someone we track finding themselves unemployed.

 I believe a Paine maiden (perhaps Tabitha?) recently came home from HQ. I think it is only a matter of months, maybe weeks, before some other fundy maidens (such as Tori Webster or Esther Staddon) go back to being SAHDs, and some guy (perhaps Brandon Keilen or Robert Staddon) finds himself without a paycheck & a family to feed. Good luck with the SOTDRT skills set, boys!

[halcionne]

@Anonymousguest I'm pretty sure Huckabee and Gothard are more closely linked than you would like to believe. This thread has triggered me and I'm leaving it, but when I feel better I may come back with some receipts. Or you can google* "Huckabee IBLP" without the quotes. I remember reading that he's taken the Basic Seminar, at least. 

*I hope this didn't come off snotty; I'm pretty upset by this thread today and I'm trying to say what I feel is important to say as quickly as possible before I gtfo of here. 

[countressrascal]

First off they all need to be guest of the federal government for a long time, sicko.

Correct me if I am wrong on this-Didn't a couple of states include Gothard's seminars in their public schools and juvenile detention centers? I think AR was one of them.

[apple1]

34 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

For the lawyers on FJ, would it not be more likely for a cases against Gothard only and IBLP only to be won rather than combining them? What if the judge/jury feels Gothard is guilty but doesn't hold the IBLP board responsible (since many of them were not on the board at the time of the abuses, as I understand) or--hard to imagine!--they don't find Gothard guilty but do hold IBLP responsible for not reporting other abuses (students who confessed about physical and sexual abuse perpetrated by someone other than Gothard)? Can they separate the defendants at that point, or does the whole case get thrown out and neither defendant can be retried due to double jeopardy?

I am not a lawyer nor do I "play one on TV" (nor on FJ).

This is a civil suit, not a criminal case. The double jeopardy thing in the US, as I understand it, applies to criminal charges, not really to civil cases. It might be concluded, however, if one tried once for civil remuneration and didn't get it, a 2nd attempt at a civil case for the same thing could likely be a waste of time and energy.

Any real lawyer- feel free to correct me.

[Iamhispurity]

I didn´t make it through the whole lawsuit, because it made me feel like I had to throw up. How could any half way decent human being cover this up, belittle them oder do nothing about it? All in the name of faith!

[older than allosaurs]

58 minutes ago, notfundy said:

Does anyone have a thought on why Gothard never married?  He didn't right, if Wikipedia is correct.

 

I read his "testimony" about it somewhere--can't find it now. I think he said he wanted to marry as a young man and his mother disapproved, or something. And then he got a revelation that his life was meant to lived for God, without competing obligation. So he took holy vows, Protestant style.   Something like that.

No doubt some better-informed FJer has the specifics.

[SledCat]

27 minutes ago, older than allosaurs said:

I read his "testimony" about it somewhere--can't find it now. I think he said he wanted to marry as a young man and his mother disapproved, or something. And then he got a revelation that his life was meant to lived for God, without competing obligation. So he took holy vows, Protestant style.   Something like that.

No doubt some better-informed FJer has the specifics.

There was also a persistent comment going around the interwebs that Gothard wanted to get married as a much older man (in his 60s) to a much younger assistant (in her 20s), but his father disapproved.

One such example in the comments section here

[Whoosh]

19 minutes ago, SledCat said:

There was also a persistent comment going around the interwebs that Gothard wanted to get married as a much older man (in his 60s) to a much younger assistant (in her 20s), but his father disapproved.

One such example in the comments section here

Something at least somewhat along these lines is mentioned in the complaint.  If this is the situation you are referring to, another kink in that plan is that according to the complaint, it seems the young woman in question had no interest in nor desire to marry Gothard- so there's that.

[ElegantMajesticPearls]

Anyone have an explanation why the women went the civil suit route rather than criminal charges? Is it possible criminal charges could be brought against Gothard and his crew?