Jinger & Jerk V - Engaged

[Kira]

Ben, Jessa, Michelle, Jeremy and Jinger were spotted in New York

I

I

I guess this photo is recent. I got it from http://keepingupwithfundies.tumblr.com/

[fraurosena]

So, I guess the 'buy used, save the difference' trope is definitely out, seeing that H&M bag under Jinger's arm.

[habert]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I can't get through the sermons.  But about Jeremy, not all sons of misogynists become misogynists themselves.  Further, Jeremy's mom and sister seem to have had more freedom than the Duggar females.  Fundies come in many shapes and sizes.

In some ways, it will be better for the Duggar kidults to marry people from somewhat fundie backgrounds.  Imagine the shock of marrying into a secular family where no one understands or praises the carefully cultivated "servant's heart."  With Jeremy, Jinger may be encouraged to read, to understand more. She may be given the space to develop her photography. And Jeremy may evolve.  He may be patriarchal without being misogynistic.

This would be a best-case scenario.  The opposite may be true and Jeremy will decide to follow JB.  I am just saying that it is not an either/or situation.  There are degrees of fundiness and at least the Vuolos didn't deny their kids an education.

I appreciate what you're saying about Jinger being allowed to expand herself more with Jeremy than at home even if he's patriarchal, which I agree, but to the bolded sentence patriarchy is misogynistic. American culture is drenched in it. The rise of fundamentalism Christian cultism in America (I can't speak for elsewhere in the world because I haven't researched as much) is symptomatic of misogyny. But yes I hope for the best for Jinger in that Jeremy will help her pursue her interests and possibly some more education beyond her mom's kitchen and that they connect on a personal level, but I have very little hope about his views of sex and gender and the role of a father in a family.  

[danni9242]

7 minutes ago, Kira said:

Ben, Jessa, Michelle, Jeremy and Jinger were spotted in New York

I

I

I guess this photo is recent. I got it from http://keepingupwithfundies.tumblr.com/

Maybe she got a bit of money for taking some photographs or Jeremy bought her something.

There's nothing wrong with saving and using thrift stores, but  there is something nicer about an item that is actually new not just 'new to you'.

[EmCatlyn]

23 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

But the heart of patriarchy is that you believe men are superior in roles of authority. That is prejudice against women, which is misogyny.

Edited to add: I think it's similar to saying you believe in the merits of slavery but you aren't a racist.

According to  Webster  online, misogyny means "hatred of women."  Another  definition is "hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, orprejudice against women."

This article from the WSJ has a good discussion of how the word "misogyny" has expanded.  It is still not synonymous with patriarachy.

The word "patriarchal" is an adjective formed from the noun  "patriarchy."  There are more definitions out there than I have time or energy to record, but what all of them have in common is that "patriarchy" is a system, not an attitude. 

A system may be rooted in or facilitate certain attitudes, but there is a difference between attitudes/feelings and specific systems.  For example, many people subscribe to a system called "democracy" but they approach it with different attitudes.

I understand that you see patriarchy as a system rooted in misogyny and therefore don't see how a person who is patriarchal would not also be misogynistic.  But I disagree.

  It is pointless to get into an argument about which one of us is "right."  All I can say is that I distinguish between the system that makes women subordinate and a person's individual opinion or attitude towards women.

To some extent, almost all of live in patriarchal cultures. A lot of our patriarchal attitudes are deeply ingrained and we don't even realize them. (Ideas of female beauty, for example, almost always reflect what "high status" males like/dislike.)   So a person may accept a patriarchal system of values and live ia patriarchal lifestyle and not necessarily hate or mistrust women.

It was in this sense that I suggested that some one -- in this case Jeremy-- might be patriarchal (have Baptist fundie headship ideas) and not necessarily dislike women as people.  Maybe he does, but to me it doesn't inevitably follow.

 

[iweartanktops]

1 hour ago, eveandadam said:

and because we never discuss possible pregnancies here on the board. we never do that, never have, never will.

Of course we talk about actual pregnancies. I'm sure I do. I'm talking speculation and body/looks comments. I think they really cross a line.

Some members comment on the looks of fundies we follow. It's not against the rules. It's also not against the rules for me to say that I think those comments suck. I think it's rude and completely irrelevant to why FJ exists. Being bloated, acne, weight gain/loss, etc., are all part of life. How would you like to see your looks dissected by a group of people on Facebook or something? 

[EmCatlyn]

21 minutes ago, habert said:

I appreciate what you're saying about Jinger being allowed to expand herself more with Jeremy than at home even if he's patriarchal, which I agree, but <snip> patriarchy is misogynistic. American culture is drenched in it. The rise of fundamentalism Christian cultism in America (I can't speak for elsewhere in the world because I haven't researched as much) is symptomatic of misogyny. But yes I hope for the best for Jinger in that Jeremy will help her pursue her interests and possibly some more education beyond her mom's kitchen and that they connect on a personal level, but I have very little hope about his views of sex and gender and the role of a father in a family.  

Agree that the rise of fundamentalism is linked to misogyny. Don't agree that "patriarchy is misogyny," for reasons explained above.   As for Jeremy, I haven't a lot of hope, but there is always a possibility. 

[ester]

A patriarchal system that claims to treat women as having worth equal to men has little to no self awareness. The fact that men in a patriarchal system have the power to deny or grant rights to women means that they view their privilege (ouch, that word,) as being the natural order of things, which is defined as "normal" and "good." Female participation in a patriarchy is their justification for the morality of their position.

If it were possible to have a non-misogynist patriarchy, by that logic, it would be possible to have a non-racist segregated society.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, danni9242 said:

Maybe she got a bit of money for taking some photographs or Jeremy bought her something.

There's nothing wrong with saving and using thrift stores, but  there is something nicer about an item that is actually new not just 'new to you'.

Their love of "buy used and save the difference" was from their poorer days. It was their only choice. I'm sure they still do buy used but since the TLC money started rolling in, I'm sure they started buying much more brand new stuff. I'm not poor but I love buying used for environmental reasons and because I like spending my extra money in other ways.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Please continue your discussion on the next thread: