Jim Bob blind item

[Cleopatra7]

47 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I guess they didn't touch on genetics at the SOTDRT...I would love to ask Mr. Gothard the locus of the sin determining allele.

Obviously I wouldn't expect indepth coverage of heritiability theory for kids, but I'm doubting even cursory mention of Mendel and the simplified dominant/recessive Bb for brown and blue eyes.  Which is a freaking shame because 19 kids who share the same parents...looking at the traits in their little control sample (errr...family) would have been an awesome science project.  

I too would be curious to know what kind of "science" is taught in Gothard's Wisdumb Booklettes. Given that he teaches that breast cancer is caused by sexual immorality, I'm sure it's only slightly above the four humors and Aristotelian notions surrounding the homunculus.

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I guess they didn't touch on genetics at the SOTDRT...I would love to ask Mr. Gothard the locus of the sin determining allele.

Obviously I wouldn't expect indepth coverage of heritiability theory for kids, but I'm doubting even cursory mention of Mendel and the simplified dominant/recessive Bb for brown and blue eyes.  Which is a freaking shame because 19 kids who share the same parents...looking at the traits in their little control sample (errr...family) would have been an awesome science project.  

Sounds a little too close to evolution for comfort. Much better to believe god just formed us up out of nothing.

[Mercer]

Another reason it's popular in some fundie circles to talk about adopting is for pro-life street cred. It's an indirect response to the often-asked question of what happens to those babies after they're born. "Of course they're wanted! Why, we'd just love to adopt them!" This talk doesn't have to lead to action; it's enough to imply it could happen. If they at least talk about adoption, they can imagine that they look a little less hypocritical for denying support to and heaping judgment on parents and children in need.

Obviously not all fundies fall into this category. Some do actually adopt. Jessa and Ben seem likely to, and Jill and Derrick may also.

I don't think Michelle and Jim Bob would actually do so in a million years, though. I don't think they have any real desire to adopt. They don't seem to value the process of actually raising children at even close to the same level as they value birthing them and adding them to the count, and frankly Michelle is way too pleased with herself for giving birth so many times for me to believe she would ever give her affection to a child that another woman birthed.

I think it's just talk, and I think it will continue to be just talk even as it becomes increasingly obvious it's never going to happen.

[scribble]

10 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I think it's more a question of their age. In my state, the parents couldn't be more than 40 years older than the child they adopted. Therefore, an infant is right out for JB and M.

That is my state's policy too, but we were placed with an infant anyway -- we are in our mid-40's. Perhaps there was a waiver someplace (as the baby is a sibling to our other children) but age never came up in the discussions about the placement. (There were some other issues that did come up before the baby  was placed with us so I'm pretty sure it would have been mentioned if the age requirement had been an issue.) I guess what I'm trying to say is while that might be the "official" policy, I'm not sure it's necessarily followed... it may be more of a guideline.

All that said, I agree with others who've already posted. I really don't think Jim Bob & Michelle will ever adopt... and that all that talk is for show. If it's going to happen, I definitely think it will be one of the girls, either Jessa or Jill.

[OrchidBlossom]

6 hours ago, Mercer said:

Another reason it's popular in some fundie circles to talk about adopting is for pro-life street cred. It's an indirect response to the often-asked question of what happens to those babies after they're born. "Of course they're wanted! Why, we'd just love to adopt them!" This talk doesn't have to lead to action; it's enough to imply it could happen. If they at least talk about adoption, they can imagine that they look a little less hypocritical for denying support to and heaping judgment on parents and children in need.

Obviously not all fundies fall into this category. Some do actually adopt. Jessa and Ben seem likely to, and Jill and Derrick may also.

 

I can't know what is in the minds of the Duggars (besides not much), but I don't really think that Jessa or Jill is likely to adopt. Adoption is expensive and even private adoptions can be extremely expensive. It is also work. And goodness knows they seem to dislike that. And of course there is the whole sins of the father issue. Can't be sure if the Duggars buy into that, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did and therefore they would only want nice, healthy, white, quiet, non-sinful, infants from traceable fathers who are "good Christians who just made a mistake" or something. I knew a girl (not a fundie, per se, but definitely conservative maybe bordering on fundie lite, southern baptist I think) who married young and found out she had fertility issues a few years ago. We don't still talk at all but I heard from a mutual friend that when she looked into adoption she said something to the effect of "that won't do" when she found out that she wouldn't be privy to the parents' religious beliefs. I don't really know if she would call it "sins of the father" a la Gothard, but I was told that she felt "uncomfortable" with the idea of raising a child when she didn't know what it had been exposed to previously (and for the record she was looking at infants/very young children). That would seriously limit their pool of potential adoptees, if the Duggars had any kind of similar misgivings. 

Then again maybe I am over-exaggerating because I sincerely hope that none of them would ever be allowed within 10 feet of an adoption unless they evince some serious life changes that convince me they would be less neglectful and abusive than their own parents.

I think you are right though, regardless of what Jessa and Jill as individuals end up doing, I think that talking about adoption is bolstering. Not just of the general pro-life movement, though that is part of it, but also of their own holiness. Their heart for the lord and their burden for children/the lost/ministering/all of the above and their servants heart and their whatever blah blah blah.

[Bad Wolf]

Well, neither Jill nor Jessa seems as fertile as their mother, so they may be able to slow down the baby making long enough to adopt, but I still don't see it happening. Agencies expect at least one parent to have a steady job.

[MarblesMom]

On 7/22/2016 at 8:57 AM, Bad Wolf said:

Agencies expect at least one parent to have a steady job.

Oh, that pesky steady job thing.  It keeps popping up. 

If they only had to produce a W-2 for adoption, and JB actually had his SILs on "payroll" it might work.  "Steady job" or not.

Something tells me this is a cash only payment system....

[scribble]

21 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

If they only had to produce a W-2 for adoption, and JB actually had his SILs on "payroll" it might work.  "Steady job" or not.

I'll be surprised if the need for a steady job would be a hindrance.

In our state, you just have to prove you can support an addition to your family --  you don't necessarily have to have a steady job (though that's what it means for most people.)

I can think of two people who adopted from foster care without having a job -- one woman I've talked to in a foster parent support group, adopted six siblings from foster care... she lives with her parents (who are retired) and the only "income" she has is the adoption stipend she receives. 

The other case I know of because there was a tragedy in the news last year involving a foster child dying while in care. The foster mother, who had adopted and was fostering several children, was unemployed and living in public housing.

I'm sure finding an unethical adoption agency that wouldn't give a damn about employment wouldn't be super hard for the Duggars anyway, given they have a pile of money. There are plenty of adoption agencies out there with questionable practices.

[Bad Wolf]

It's easier to adopt from foster care, but you still need an income. They don't want people re!ying on the foster care allowance, at least in my state. Not many foster children are babies any more, mostly older kids with issues.

[scribble]

21 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

It's easier to adopt from foster care, but you still need an income. They don't want people re!ying on the foster care allowance, at least in my state. Not many foster children are babies any more, mostly older kids with issues.

I honestly do hope you are right and I'm wrong, Bad Wolf.

There are lots of babies in our state, but they generally are adopted by their foster parents once they are legally freed and they aren't babies anymore by the time that happens. (We adopted newborn, but he's a sibling to the two older kiddos we had already adopted.) So, as you say, if you're going the foster route with the intention of adopting an infant, it's probably not going to happen.

Duggars would never survive the fostering (.... and not being able to show off their little blessing for TLC for years while they are waiting for the adoption to be completed.... no way.)   With international adoption closed in many countries, I think their only avenue will be domestic infant adoption. (I hope no Duggar ever adopts in any case.)

[ksgranola1]

<snip>Given that he teaches that breast cancer is caused by sexual immorality, I'm sure it's only slightly above the four humors and Aristotelian notions surrounding the homunculus.>end snip.

WHAAAT??! Tell me I read that wrong. One in 4 women will experience breast cancer in their lifetimes. My money is on Michelle 10 (11 if you count Anna)  women in the family, that means at least 2. Somebody better change their tune. I know at least 8 women who have had breast cancer. They were far from immoral.

[screamingbuddha]

Going back over this thread, I wonder if the blind item wasn't in fact about Toby Willis? Not an A-lister, even by reality standards, but still...

[Snarkle Motion]

39 minutes ago, screamingbuddha said:

Going back over this thread, I wonder if the blind item wasn't in fact about Toby Willis? Not an A-lister, even by reality standards, but still...

That is really interesting. I could definitely see him wanting more kids and we know Brenda had her tubes tied after Jada. I wouldn't put it past him.

[religiouslyconfused]

On 10/1/2016 at 3:03 PM, screamingbuddha said:

Going back over this thread, I wonder if the blind item wasn't in fact about Toby Willis? Not an A-lister, even by reality standards, but still...

That looks like a good guess. 

[barbecutie]

I'm starting to think all the adoption talk from the Duggar parents and from their married kids (minus Josh and Anna, obviously) might have just been about adopting Michelle's nephew, which her and Boob apparently have guardianship over now. 

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

On 7/22/2016 at 9:57 AM, Bad Wolf said:

Well, neither Jill nor Jessa seems as fertile as their mother, so they may be able to slow down the baby making long enough to adopt, but I still don't see it happening. Agencies expect at least one parent to have a steady job.

My question is, are they not as fertile or are they practicing birth control under the radar? Jill and Derek not being pregnant yet seems next to impossible.

[Gillyweed]

1 hour ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

My question is, are they not as fertile or are they practicing birth control under the radar? Jill and Derek not being pregnant yet seems next to impossible.

Sometimes people do have trouble getting pregnant, even if they're not infertile and got pregnant really easily the first time. They could just be unlucky.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

My question is, are they not as fertile or are they practicing birth control under the radar? Jill and Derek not being pregnant yet seems next to impossible.

Jill was nursing for quite a long time and I think being down in CA with Zika, Derrick may have said NOPE not having a baby until we get the all clear.  Jill wouldn't flinch if her headship told her we were going to wait.  You can do man other things besides pills to keep from getting pregnant. With her nursing they wouldn't want her on the pill anyway. They could be using condoms or NFP (which can work) or do as my friend has been doing, for 30 years the pull out method. She's only gotten pregnant on accident once in all that time but she is meticulous about everything so that might no work for a scatter brained Jill. 

[hilee]

4 hours ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

My question is, are they not as fertile or are they practicing birth control under the radar? Jill and Derek not being pregnant yet seems next to impossible.

Given the Zika risk and Jill's last birth experience I hope they are. But they could just be doing the rhythm method or having trouble

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

14 hours ago, barbecutie said:

I'm starting to think all the adoption talk from the Duggar parents and from their married kids (minus Josh and Anna, obviously) might have just been about adopting Michelle's nephew, which her and Boob apparently have guardianship over now. 

Oh that poor boy. He wouldn't happen to be the son of the lesbian sister? What a culture shock for him.

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Jill was nursing for quite a long time and I think being down in CA with Zika, Derrick may have said NOPE not having a baby until we get the all clear.  Jill wouldn't flinch if her headship told her we were going to wait.  You can do man other things besides pills to keep from getting pregnant. With her nursing they wouldn't want her on the pill anyway. They could be using condoms or NFP (which can work) or do as my friend has been doing, for 30 years the pull out method. She's only gotten pregnant on accident once in all that time but she is meticulous about everything so that might no work for a scatter brained Jill. 

Jill talks about tracking her ovulation in the one People magazine article (I believe it was...too lazy to verify) when Israel was born. So I agree they're either pulling out or only doing it on days she's least likely to conceive

[OrchidBlossom]

4 hours ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

My question is, are they not as fertile or are they practicing birth control under the radar? Jill and Derek not being pregnant yet seems next to impossible.

It isn't next to impossible. They've been married for just over two years, and were pregnant for the first 9-10 months of their marriage. She seems to have nursed for a while, as well, which lowers fertility. And further, even without protection many women don't conceive for months after they stop breastfeeding. 

The average birth rate for a family that isn't using birth control is, I believe, around 6 to 10 children, which usually means roughly two years, or a little less, in between children. It is very plausible that Jill and Derick are not using birth control but simply haven't conceived again.

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Jill was nursing for quite a long time and I think being down in CA with Zika, Derrick may have said NOPE not having a baby until we get the all clear.  Jill wouldn't flinch if her headship told her we were going to wait.  You can do man other things besides pills to keep from getting pregnant. With her nursing they wouldn't want her on the pill anyway. They could be using condoms or NFP (which can work) or do as my friend has been doing, for 30 years the pull out method. She's only gotten pregnant on accident once in all that time but she is meticulous about everything so that might no work for a scatter brained Jill. 

IBLP considers *any* attempt at impeding pregnancy to be impermissible birth control though. So NFP and the pull out method is just as off the table as the pill.

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

3 hours ago, Gillyweed said:

Sometimes people do have trouble getting pregnant, even if they're not infertile and got pregnant really easily the first time. They could just be unlucky.

I just find it interesting since Jill was the one with baby fever. I'm glad they are taking their time given they are doing missionary work and that they are at risk for Zika, but something doesn't seem right to me that they aren't pregnant yet. 

2 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

It isn't next to impossible. They've been married for just over two years, and were pregnant for the first 9-10 months of their marriage. She seems to have nursed for a while, as well, which lowers fertility. And further, even without protection many women don't conceive for months after they stop breastfeeding. 

The average birth rate for a family that isn't using birth control is, I believe, around 6 to 10 children, which usually means roughly two years, or a little less, in between children. It is very plausible that Jill and Derick are not using birth control but simply haven't conceived again.

IBLP considers *any* attempt at impeding pregnancy to be impermissible birth control though. So NFP and the pull out method is just as off the table as the pill.

Thank you for the little health lesson. Though college educated I know nothing about fertility. So then how did JayB and JayChelle end up with 19? 2 sets of twins still equals 17 pregnancies...I think they lost two kids so that's 19 again. I don't know. Oh this is gross but they must have been "in the workshop" everyday. UGH. 

[Alisamer]

4 minutes ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

So then how did JayB and JayChelle end up with 19? 2 sets of twins still equals 17 pregnancies...I think they lost two kids so that's 19 again.

I'm pretty sure they were actively trying for as many as possible. She tracked her ovulation (or the older girls tracked it for her...) and we know she handed off the babies to the girls at around 6 months so they would have been weaned or weaning by that time most likely. Plus he's a total horndog. There's nothing much "normal" about them.

[OrchidBlossom]

4 minutes ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

Thank you for the little health lesson. Though college educated I know nothing about fertility. So then how did JayB and JayChelle end up with 19? 2 sets of twins still equals 17 pregnancies...I think they lost two kids so that's 19 again. I don't know. Oh this is gross but they must have been "in the workshop" everyday. UGH. 

Some people get "luckier" than others with fertility. Michelle also had two sets of twins which is a genetic factor that "helps" her in the sense of having more children.

People who don't take birth control at any time in their lives are slightly more predisposed to have miscarriages (which makes sense since they are generally more likely to conceive since they aren't preventing it) and a woman who gets pregnant very close to a recent birth is, I believe, also slightly more likely to miscarry (because the body is still in recovery mode) so it is also *possible* that Jill and Derick experienced a pregnancy which miscarried and we don't know about. Then there is the fact that Michelle and JB seem to have been not just leaving it up to the Lord but really trying to have many children. It is possible that while J and D want to have as many children as they are "blessed" with they aren't "trying" in the same way Michelle and JB seemed to. 

Long story short, there are many factors which could explain why Michelle was so fertile and Jill has yet to conceive, but Jill's timeline is so far still consistent with someone not using birth control. If we get another year or two out without a baby, then *perhaps* some speculation might be due, but fertility issues could also have struck. It will be next to impossible to know unless they tell us.

But since they have said they don't plan to prevent pregnancy, I tend to believe they are not doing so.

[Coconut Flan]

Derick didn't grow up IBLP either so he may not be as opposed to birth control methods as Jill is.  They are attending a regular SBC church so perhaps Jill is taking the lead from him.  There is no proof, but it's possible.