Black Lives Matter

[Pupalup]

I'm sorry, I just can't get behind people who say they are pro BLM AND pro law enforcement. Police brutality in this country is completely out of hand, black people fear for their lives when they are stopped for something as trivial as going a little bit over the speed limit. Police have been an obstacle to civil rights protests for years. The war on drugs, which primarily targets POC, is enforced by the police. Police in this country flat out kill children during get away with it. The cops that do speak out against it face a ridiculous amount of harassment from their peers/coworkers and often loose their jobs. Until our system of law enforcement gets majorly reformed I cannot support the police.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Pupalup

[SweetFellowshipper]

On 10/24/2016 at 2:06 PM, Pupalup said:

I'm sorry, I just can't get behind people who say they are pro BLM AND pro law enforcement. Police brutality in this country is completely out of hand, black people fear for their lives when they are stopped for something as trivial as going a little bit over the speed limit. Police have been an obstacle to civil rights protests for years. The war on drugs, which primarily targets POC, is enforced by the police. Police in this country flat out kill children during get away with it. The cops that do speak out against it face a ridiculous amount of harassment from their peers/coworkers and often loose their jobs. Until our system of law enforcement gets majorly reformed I cannot support the police.

I 110% agree. I am pro the idea of actual justice in law enforcement but in this country it doesn't exist. Not just for black people, but for sexual assault victims, trans people, mentally ill and disabled people (an enormous number of disabled people are killed by cops each year, including many wheelchair users and deaf folks for "not complying" with orders they were physically unable to hear or follow). 

So nope. I'm a proud, active, white member of Black Lives Matter. And I'm not going to respect law enforcement until they earn my basic respect. 

[VelociRapture]

I figure this is a good place to post this:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/philando-castile-trial-verdict/index.html

So, apparently you can murder an innocent black man ON CAMERA and get away with it if you're a cop.

I am so incredibly sorry to the Castile family, his girlfriend, her daughter, and to the greater black community in the country. I am so sorry that, once again, you've seen the justice system spit all over one of your own. I'm just really, really sorry.

I've been angry about verdicts before, but this may just be the biggest miscarriage of justice I've ever witnessed. 

[Cleopatra7]

After doing a lot of reading on mass incarceration, the prison industrial complex, and the origins of policing, I've reached a point where I'm in favor of prison and police abolition, because I don't think either of these institutions can be reformed. I know many FJers will find this stance to be shocking and naive, because prisons and police are taken for granted in our society as "normal" and "natural", but both are relatively recent phenomenons (like less than 200 years old). Google prison abolition for more details or read Angela Davis's excellent (and short) book "Are Prisons Obsolete?"

[laPapessaGiovanna]

If he were alive he would probably agree with you @Cleopatra7. After 200 years we can say that the modern prison system doesn't work. It's inefficient, and nearly useless as it isn't humane, it doesn't reeducate nor rehabilitate the prisoner and most of all it doesn't deter people from committing crimes and much less prevent the criminal from repeating his crime once he is out of prison. It's also a very effective means of discrimination towards the poor, the uneducated and the POCs. It stands to the problem of criminality as asylums of the past stood to mental illness. It just tucks the dirt under the capert so it's out of sight while it rots, festers and spreads ready to come back worse than ever.

Just to be clear I do not advocate for leaving dangerous criminals free to go around damaging our society. This already happens and will always happen if justice is retributive and not preventative, if we don't concentrate on education and on slashing inequalities. 

The fact that a murderer is set free just because he is a policeman while the murdered was a (INNOCENT and UNARMED) black man is the clearest testimony that the system actively protects a status quo of inequality and oppression. The exact opposite of the spirit and meaning of Beccaria's philosophy that aimed at the improvement of society not at the ostracism if those who don't perfectly fit in.

 

 

BTW I am philosophing to avoid puking from the sickness of the news.

[llg1234]

4 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Also, I wonder how Jessica Seewald (not sure her married name now) being a police officer could impact their views. I'd like to think if you are a decent human being who is a police officer, you'd be outraged too. We know Jessica at least used to support Trump and I believe had posted a "blue lives matter" statement at some point years ago. 

Decent human beings don't become cops, I'm sure they are more concerned about the loss of property rather than loss of life.

[EmmieJ]

3 hours ago, llg1234 said:

Decent human beings don't become cops, I'm sure they are more concerned about the loss of property rather than loss of life.

I disagree strongly.  Years ago I dated a sheriff's deputy and he was a truly nice man.  I was acquainted with several police officers who were fellow parents at my son's school.  The profession unfortunately attracts people who are on a power trip, but it also attracts decent people as well.  To paint any group of people with such broad strokes is the essence of bigotry.

[Not that josh's mom]

3 hours ago, llg1234 said:

Decent human beings don't become cops, I'm sure they are more concerned about the loss of property rather than loss of life.

I know several decent human beings in law enforcement. 

Sorry for whatever caused you to feel the way you do.

[llg1234]

1 hour ago, EmmieJ said:

I disagree strongly.  Years ago I dated a sheriff's deputy and he was a truly nice man.  I was acquainted with several police officers who were fellow parents at my son's school.  The profession unfortunately attracts people who are on a power trip, but it also attracts decent people as well.  To paint any group of people with such broad strokes is the essence of bigotry.

 

1 hour ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I know several decent human beings in law enforcement. 

Sorry for whatever caused you to feel the way you do.

If you decide to become a cop, you're enforcing the status-quo, and by extension white supremacy. 

Spoiler

 

Imagine being so tone deaf with everything going to try and argue ~~not all cops~~ Couldn't be me. Especially after being tear gassed at a peaceful protest in an area where we were passing out water and administrating first aid. 

[Coconut Flan]

So we should have anarchy instead?

[Pecansforeveryone]

Even the most progressive countries have police officers. There are some good ones in the bunch. 

[grandmadugger]

@llg1234 I am sorry that happened to you but you are displaying bigotry of your own here. Cops around the country are joining peaceful protests, are appalled by the actions of bad cops and calling for power hungry cops to leave the profession. No demographic should be judged by the extremists. Just because the extremists are the loudest. 

[Expectopatronus]

1 hour ago, llg1234 said:

 

If you decide to become a cop, you're enforcing the status-quo, and by extension white supremacy. 

  Hide contents

 

Imagine being so tone deaf with everything going to try and argue ~~not all cops~~ Couldn't be me. Especially after being tear gassed at a peaceful protest in an area where we were passing out water and administrating first aid. 

That should have never happened and whoever gave the order for police to go into a peaceful protest with tear gas should lose their job. There are, unfortunately, cruel, power-hunger people in every profession. Certainly some people who are drawn to jobs like the police, military and corrections are drawn to it so that they can abuse marginalized individuals. However, others go in to these careers to create change from within. I recognize that I occupy a position of privilege and that my experience will be different than that of a person of colour but I’m not comfortable tarring everyone with the same brush. 

[Maggie Mae]

7 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

That should have never happened and whoever gave the order for police to go into a peaceful protest with tear gas should lose their job. 

They won't. Because police protect their own. As long as they continue to escape justice, there are no good police. 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, grandmadugger said:

@llg1234 I am sorry that happened to you but you are displaying bigotry of your own here. Cops around the country are joining peaceful protests, are appalled by the actions of bad cops and calling for power hungry cops to leave the profession. No demographic should be judged by the extremists. Just because the extremists are the loudest. 

I haven't seen a single cop join a protest in solidarity. I have, however, seen a policeman start shit, saw a person run over by a horse, saw an elderly man with a can jumped, saw peaceful protesters teargassed. Police protect their own. That's why they so often escape charges. This is not the time to be "not all cops." Because it IS all cops. They have a brotherhood and they do not care about you. Even if one particular "friend" is "OK" you still need to protect yourself, because they will sell you out in an instant for a promotion or money, or to protect the brotherhood. 

And the Supreme Court gives them the leeway. The POLICE DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY OF US. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html

[Maggie Mae]

I'd say it's time/relevant to revive this thread, with ongoing protests in almost every major city. 

Today I saw a video of  a white man shoot black protesters with a crossbow in Salt Lake CIty, the police ran over a protester with a horse in Houston, and multiple cities have have buildings set on fire. There is so much unrest and with so many people out of work, I don't see it getting any better. Meanwhile, POTUS refuses to lead or do anything besides tweet. 

[grandmadugger]

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

I refuse to condemn an entire section of the world population because of power hungry extremists. This is starting to sound like right wing folks and Muslims. 

[Maggie Mae]

4 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

I refuse to condemn an entire section of the world population because of power hungry extremists. This is starting to sound like right wing folks and Muslims. 

It's a job, and part of the job is to protect other police. Until every single murderer is brought to justice, and the remaining ones drop the military grade shit, they all are at fault. No amount of lip service will change that.

We don't even know if those are actual police, or just people wearing police costumes. Normally, police are not allowed to express political opinions or join in marches in uniforms.  

The worship of police and military in this country is out of control. And those who excuse it with "not all cops" are basically saying "black lives don't matter." 

 

[Ozlsn]

19 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Meanwhile, POTUS refuses to lead or do anything besides tweet. 

Oh POTUS is leading. With a wink and a nudge and some coded language, he's front and centre. After all, "You also had some very fine people on both sides.” *sigh*

[Maggie Mae]

1 minute ago, Ozlsn said:

Oh POTUS is leading. With a wink and a nudge and some coded language, he's front and centre. After all, "You also had some very fine people on both sides.” *sigh*

He's so obvious, embarrassing and awful. I don't know how anyone can support this administration and say "I'm not a racist" with a straight face. 

 

[47of74]

If I was a business owner I’m at the point where if you were a cop I’d tell you to take your business elsewhere and not give a flying fuck what the nazis thought of me. 

I’m of the opinion that law enforcement should remove the US Flag from their uniforms and equipment. They shit and piss all over the same flag that draped my grandpa’s casket. Wearing that thing should be a privilege and through their dishonorable behavior far as I am concerned they lost the right to wear it. 

4 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

He's so obvious, embarrassing and awful. I don't know how anyone can support this administration and say "I'm not a racist" with a straight face. 

 

I’ve taken to giving discreet one fingered salutes to vehicles and buildings with fuck face flags or signs.

[grandmadugger]

9 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

It's a job, and part of the job is to protect other police. Until every single murderer is brought to justice, and the remaining ones drop the military grade shit, they all are at fault. No amount of lip service will change that.

We don't even know if those are actual police, or just people wearing police costumes. Normally, police are not allowed to express political opinions or join in marches in uniforms.  

The worship of police and military in this country is out of control. And those who excuse it with "not all cops" are basically saying "black lives don't matter." 

 

I do know for a fact that they are real cops. The top is the chief of police. 
 

I don’t think anyone here is saying that black lives don’t matter. What I am saying is hatred for an entire section of the population is dangerous and does nothing to solve the problem. It just causes more division and problems. 
 

The problem is racism is running rampant in this country. Neo-Nazis have gained power.  The president supports the new-nazis. They have imported rioters to drown out the very important message of the protesters. We need real leadership. Not a so called leader who incites violence and encourages racism. 

[Maggie Mae]

8 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

The problem is racism is running rampant in this country. Neo-Nazis have gained power.  

Why do you think they police don't break up the neo-nazi/KKK rallys? Because the police are neo-nazis and KKK members. The police in this country are corrupt and above the law. Every. Single. One. 

Quote

The president supports the new-nazis.

So do the police.  Not a hard concept. The ones that aren't actively kneeling on a  person's neck over $20 are still there, not helping. The ones that watch as cops rape vulnerable women are still getting paid, while they are silent. The ones that look away while one person hurts another person under the guise of "safety" or the police officer that ran a car into a group of protesters today in new york - all "doing their jobs" all doing their jobs in an immoral and unethical fashion. 

 

 

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, llg1234 said:

Decent human beings don't become cops, I'm sure they are more concerned about the loss of property rather than loss of life.

Our law enforcement in this country is a mess and we desperately need to make sweeping changes in most local departments. 

But this is such an intellectually lazy, self-aggrandizing statement that helps no one.

Also feel the need to add, about 25% of police officers are POC. 

Just now, Maggie Mae said:

Why do you think they police don't break up the neo-nazi/KKK rallys? Because the police are neo-nazis and KKK members. The police in this country are corrupt and above the law. Every. Single. One. 

So do the police.  Not a hard concept. 

So even the black and Jewish cops are Neo-Nazis and members of the KKK? Sorry, but I do find that a hard concept. In fact, most problems are "hard concepts" in that they are complicated and simplistic slogans don't get at the heart of the problems. 

Police departments in Boston and Newark have made great strides to learn deescalation techniques and root out corrupt cops. They should be commended and other departments should learn from them rather than throwing them out as well. Cops in Newark marched with BLM protestors today. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by nausicaa

[LacyMay]

I think it's important that I clarify early on that I'm Canadian and can only speak to our current situation. 

The Police system is broken. On both sides of the border. It's absolutely broken. It's built on systemic racism and colonialism. POC, People with addictions, people with mental illness are all over represented in our prison system and unfairly targeted. 

No one is disputing that (and if they are they are going to get blowback here.) 

And there are crappy police officers who abuse the power given to them. There are police officers who should be behind bars. Again no one is disputing that. 

But their are also police officers who are doing the best they can within a broken system going to work every day trying to make their communities better the best way they know how. There are police officers doing the best they can to fix the system. And those police officers are doing so knowing full well that they could go to work and not come home at the end of the day. I can't help but think that it takes a lot to go to work willing to die to protect someone you don't know. That's what two police office friends do. They go to work within a broken system trying to make things better and they keep doing it. They kept doing it days after one of their colleagues was gunned down by a guy pretending to be a cop. 

It doesn't make all the other things right or ok. It doesn't make the system any less broken. But they are good people. And they don't stop being good people when they show up to work. 

And if you're going to use the argument that anyone who props up a broken system is bad than we can extend this to the following. 

There are no good social workers (because our child welfare system is broken) 

There are no good teachers (our education system is broken) 

There are no good Doctors or Nurses (healthcare isn't immune to the issues of systemic racism and colonialism)