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Nathan 3: "She loves me, she loves me not, she loves . . . "


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8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Funny how fast all the old timers ran. I really think they were provided with evidence of some really bad shit which is why they bolted and why the BoD won't let anyone view what the report says. Not even Gothard has seen it. They keep it under lock and key. 

Even in the Gospel according to Alfred, only Stancil  wanted BG reinstated.  The rest all ran away very fast.  Bernie Reese is particularly interesting because, according to RG, he actually took the time to ask some questions of them.  Independently of Gibbs, Jr.  and the "investigation."  And then he got the heck out of Dodge!

IMO, the present board are sitting on the investigation report because it shows clear evidence of illegal behavior.  And it might include things that incriminating to the board itself.  As in Stephen Paine not reporting suspicions of sexual abuse and telling people to take an aspirin. 

 

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1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Paine also worked at Gothard's centers in Indianapolis and Oak Brook, but now a prison physician.

Wait, there's a Gothard center in Indianapolis? I was totally unaware and I've lived here my whole life. :562479906e9ac_ohnoes:

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12 minutes ago, Cat Damon said:

Wait, there's a Gothard center in Indianapolis? I was totally unaware and I've lived here my whole life. :562479906e9ac_ohnoes:

Yep.  Sorry about that.

Indianapolis South Campus.  11850 Brookville Rd. Indianapolis, IN 46239 

https://iblp.org/about-iblp/what-we-do/training-centers

There used to be more but they are slowly selling them off.  

Then there are the ones that pretend not to be IBLP but are.  Like Character First in Oklahoma City.  http://www.characterfirst.com/

I've never been able to track down a complete list of all the affiliates. :(

 

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@Palimpsest well at least it is technically outside the boundaries of the city since it's outside I-465 (I'm just saying that to make me feel better but I guess that could be considered Indianapolis when I look at it on a map) and nowhere close to where I live or work, so it doesn't seem likely that I'll come into contact with anyone from there (fingers crossed!). 

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13 minutes ago, Cat Damon said:

it doesn't seem likely that I'll come into contact with anyone from there (fingers crossed!). 

Now I was hoping that you'd go and picket it with a big sign:  "This Organisation Protects Sex Offenders and Rapists!"

Just kidding.  IBLP does seem to keep a low profile most of the time.  We have members who used to drive past IBLP HQ in Chicago and never knew what it was.  

Also there is this short film:  

 

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4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I've never been able to track down a complete list of all the affiliates. :(

 

The former ATI student who blogs at Heresy in the Heartland did a pretty good job of showing all that IBLP started. 

Here is the list of programs

Spoiler

ATIA+%25281%2529.png

Here is a list of all the training centers. 

Spoiler

IBLP+Centers+%25281%2529.png

Here is another one she did. These really show how big IBLP really was. 

Spoiler

Cult+Web+%25286%2529.png

 

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12 hours ago, formergothardite said:

The former ATI student who blogs at Heresy in the Heartland did a pretty good job of showing all that IBLP started. 

Yes, she did.  I've used Jeri a lot.  She's really laid out how big and insidious the whole thing was well.  I remember feeling completely shocked when I found out the Character crap had invaded the Oklahoma public school system.

For me though it is hard to track all those affiliate programs and match them up with addresses so I can track when they are sold.  For example, we know now that the Dallas center was sold to a developer in 2015.  But we only know that because the building burned down recently during renovations.  It was a beautiful old hotel.

There is no doubt that IBLP has been failing and running at a loss for ages, but it still has so much real estate.  Enough to support Bates and Paine (and their scions) for years.

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On 6/21/2019 at 9:15 PM, Palimpsest said:

Now I was hoping that you'd go and picket it with a big sign:  "This Organisation Protects Sex Offenders and Rapists!"

Just kidding.  IBLP does seem to keep a low profile most of the time.  We have members who used to drive past IBLP HQ in Chicago and never knew what it was.  

Also there is this short film:  

 

Thank you for posting this short film. Although I've been around FJ for a long time, this video really gave me a deeper understanding of Gothard's cult. I was deeply touched by the people who spoke out against him and his organizations. 

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On 6/21/2019 at 1:10 PM, Cat Damon said:

Wait, there's a Gothard center in Indianapolis? I was totally unaware and I've lived here my whole life. :562479906e9ac_ohnoes:

Just catching up to threads and count me as one of those who drove by Gothard HQ for years and didn't know what it was.   So don't feel bad.

At the same time, I lived in Gothard's neighborhood and knew nothing of him, nor see him.   Mr. No reported he worked on some print jobs for ATI, but didn't know what it was until I came here to FJ, learned of how close I unknowingly lived to the cult and told him.  

They seemed to be very low profile to people not in their circles.  

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/21/2019 at 2:10 PM, Cat Damon said:

Wait, there's a Gothard center in Indianapolis? I was totally unaware and I've lived here my whole life. :562479906e9ac_ohnoes:

They used to have one at 38th/Meridian. That's the one Tom Cochran did an expose on years and years ago. There's one on Brookville Road where the Verity CLEP Test program ("college") used to be and maybe the cosmetology program they had for a while.  When Duggars first got their show they put up the kids "career goals"-lol all were things Gothard's group taught.

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On 6/18/2019 at 11:32 AM, VelociRapture said:

It actually is a good idea to stop looking at wedding dresses once you find one you like. Continuing to look can cause some women to overthink their first choice and have trouble deciding whether they want to keep it or get a new dress. That can work out really well for some Brides, including a poster here who got married about a year ago and went through this herself, but it can also end up being a costly choice to keep looking if you already purchased a dress and find another one. So I will say that Lawson at least had a point. A very small one, but still. Nathan was just an asshole.

(I can’t remember the circumstances of that specific example though, so I could be wrong and maybe she had a great reason to keep looking at that point.)

I'm pretty sure you're talking about me! I'm the only granddaughter on the side of the family I see, multiple aunts and my grandma all demanded to go shopping with me, my MIL and myself flew long distance for this weekend, and there was just so much pressure for me to buy my dress at that time. Throw in an indecisive bride and body image issues and it honestly was an incredibly stressful day. I bought the best dress I found that trip, but I knew pretty much the next day I had made a mistake. I agonized over it for months and actually cried about it a lot (yes I'm pretty emotional and sensitive) before I went by myself locally and found The Dress. This time I knew. There was family drama in me changing dresses, and I was indeed out several hundred dollars, even after reselling the first dress, but it was still worth it to me in the end. 

Normally I would recommend stopping looking though. I did once I got the second one. 

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36 minutes ago, neurogirl said:

I'm pretty sure you're talking about me! I'm the only granddaughter on the side of the family I see, multiple aunts and my grandma all demanded to go shopping with me, my MIL and myself flew long distance for this weekend, and there was just so much pressure for me to buy my dress at that time. Throw in an indecisive bride and body image issues and it honestly was an incredibly stressful day. I bought the best dress I found that trip, but I knew pretty much the next day I had made a mistake. I agonized over it for months and actually cried about it a lot (yes I'm pretty emotional and sensitive) before I went by myself locally and found The Dress. This time I knew. There was family drama in me changing dresses, and I was indeed out several hundred dollars, even after reselling the first dress, but it was still worth it to me in the end. 

Normally I would recommend stopping looking though. I did once I got the second one. 

Yes! I was thinking of you. I didn’t want to tag you in case you didn’t feel like talking about it. 

(And I still maintain you rocked both those dresses. I’m glad you wore the one you felt your best in! :) )

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This is actually something that kind of scares me.

I will go shopping for a dress somewhere in the next two months but what if I find something better afterwards? And I also want to lose weight beforehand...

I would love if I could just get my dress 2 months before the wedding, but I don't dare to take the risk.

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5 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

This is actually something that kind of scares me.

I will go shopping for a dress somewhere in the next two months but what if I find something better afterwards? And I also want to lose weight beforehand...

I would love if I could just get my dress 2 months before the wedding, but I don't dare to take the risk.

Don’t know if that’s any consolation but I am sure you will see dresses you like maybe even regret seeing earlier. Doesn’t mean your dress is the wrong one. If you say yes to one dress you say no to all the others. It’s the same with living in a monogamous relationship. You might get tempted from time to time even though you are actually very happy and know it’s the real deal.

Edited by just_ordinary
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11 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

It’s the same with living in a monogamous relationship. You might get tempted from time to time even though you are actually very happy and know it’s the real deal.

I like this comparison a lot! I will start to think about it that way ?

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5 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I would love if I could just get my dress 2 months before the wedding, but I don't dare to take the risk.

I got my dress 2 months before my wedding. I went to a BHLDN trunk show and wound up ordering the first dress I tried on. It took about a week to be delivered and while I did have to find a seamstress to do a couple of simple adjustments, it was quick and easy.

So getting a gown quickly can be done, without ending up with a Miss Renee modesty-altered monstrosity.

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6 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

This is actually something that kind of scares me.

I will go shopping for a dress somewhere in the next two months but what if I find something better afterwards? And I also want to lose weight beforehand...

I would love if I could just get my dress 2 months before the wedding, but I don't dare to take the risk.

I got my dress a couple months ago and I’ve tried my best to avoid seeing other dresses so then I can’t compare. If I do see something else that is particularly gorgeous, I just remind myself of the feeling I got putting on my dress and then I don’t feel any regret. 

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I did not want to go dress shopping... at all. My next door neighbor offered to make it, and the fabric, pattern, etc cost all of $23. It had bell sleeves. It was the 70s. I have no regrets about the dress... but later regretted the groom, lol.

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My boyfriend is more into marriage than I am (my parents are common-law and I don't love the idea of planning a party) BUT if we go for it, I am going to attempt to crochet a dress for myself because it sounds fun/not at all stressful.

I kind of like this really simple one from the 1970s: https://www.purplekittyyarns.com/dress-patterns/cm776/snowflake-sleeveless-dress-pattern

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My mom made her own wedding dress in the 1970s. I like my moms homemade dress better than the one I bought at a bridal shop for a few hundred dollars. I really really hated going wedding dress shopping. I would have had more fun at a mammogram. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/8/2019 at 8:55 AM, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

My boyfriend is more into marriage than I am (my parents are common-law and I don't love the idea of planning a party)

I feel this.  I have felt for a few years now, that If I ever did get to the point of marriage with someone, I honestly don't think I'd want to spare the energy required to plan anything elaborate for either the ceremony or party. Even if you have the money for a wedding planner, I still feel like you'd have to oversee what they are doing.  I would definitely be the local "courthouse and done"  type. Or Elvis and done.  ?I MIGHT consider the effort of going to Vegas.

Edited by The Mother Dust
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1 hour ago, The Mother Dust said:

I feel this.  I have felt for a few years now, that If I ever did get to the point of marriage with someone, I honestly don't think I'd want to spare the energy required to plan anything elaborate for either the ceremony or party. Even if you have the money for a wedding planner, I still feel like you'd have to oversee what they are doing.  I would definitely be the local "courthouse and done"  type. Or Elvis and done.  ?I MIGHT consider the effort of going to Vegas.

My BIL and SIL had a City Hall wedding a few years ago. It was planned pretty quickly and without much fuss, which was perfect for their unique situation. Husband and I were actually the ones who found the restaurant and City Hall they wound up using (thanks Google!), so all they really had to worry about was picking out outfits and showing up on time. I wound up missing the ceremony because my one year old needed a nap and we didn’t want her screaming during their vows, but my husband and in-laws said it was short and very sweet - they signed the paperwork and then had a friend do a simple ceremony in the lobby by some Christmas trees the city had up for decorations. We did make it to the “reception” afterwards and the food at the restaurant was fantastic. 

I’d honestly recommend going that route for any couple interested in being married, but who don’t want a big party or any party at all. Find a Court House or City Hall near you that offers the service and then go enjoy a nice meal at a restaurant you like - as fancy or laidback as you want - afterwards to celebrate. 

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We are going to do a short city hall ceremony, followed by a toast and sit down dinner at a restaurant with the ceremony guests. The restaurant is also a party venue. After dinner we are having a big party there.
We are having 48 guests for the ceremony and dinner (we wanted smaller, but both of us have big families and we also wanted our closest friends there, so we really couldn't get it smaller than 48), and we are having a 100 guests total for the party. Both of us really wanted a party with all our friends and close family, but neither of us really wanted a big ceremony. We aren't religious and we are getting married on a very small budget, so we decided to keep the ceremony small and cheap and use most of our budget for the party.
I will say, getting married on a small budget while wanting to throw a nice party and having a big family isn't easy. For the ceremony guests we are limiting family to parents, grandparents, siblings and aunts and uncles. No cousins, and no children under 18. And for the party we are only going to invite cousins we are close with. We decided we prefer to be surrounded by close friends than cousins we never see and have nothing in common with.

Edited by Marly
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2 hours ago, Marly said:

We are going to do a short city hall ceremony, followed by a toast and sit down dinner at a restaurant with the ceremony guests. The restaurant is also a party venue. After dinner we are having a big party there.
We are having 48 guests for the ceremony and dinner (we wanted smaller, but both of us have big families and we also wanted our closest friends there, so we really couldn't get it smaller than 48), and we are having a 100 guests total for the party. Both of us really wanted a party with all our friends and close family, but neither of us really wanted a big ceremony. We aren't religious and we are getting married on a very small budget, so we decided to keep the ceremony small and cheap and use most of our budget for the party.
I will say, getting married on a small budget while wanting to throw a nice party and having a big family isn't easy. For the ceremony guests we are limiting family to parents, grandparents, siblings and aunts and uncles. No cousins, and no children under 18. And for the party we are only going to invite cousins we are close with. We decided we prefer to be surrounded by close friends than cousins we never see and have nothing in common with.

That sounds really nice.

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