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Nathan 3: "She loves me, she loves me not, she loves . . . "


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8 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It’ll still give you metaphorical cholera.

I'm not too worried about that, as all the beautiful children and matching dresses in the world can't hide their hideous beliefs.  I've dabbled a bit in the Nauglers and Jrod but can only take them in very, very small doses.

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It amazes me that the fundie asshole part of him outweighs the respectful southern gentleman gene.

One of my buddies from college was a “good old boy” from Georgia and even at his drunkest and most obnoxious he would probably cut his own tongue out before he would give his mother or sister lip (I cringed at the grandmother comment) or any other female.

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4 hours ago, TatiFish9 said:

@rebeccawriter01

I'd forgotten about his comment to Michael. I remember wondering why she included the guys on her trip. They complained almost the entire time including Gil making comments towards the very end. I can see Michael attempting to be diplomatic in allowing them to go along. I bet she regretted in the end. Her brothers were so annoying. Nathan was rude but disguised it as honesty. I can't tell if he is dumb blunt, mean- spirited or just plain bitter. But a little bit of kindness goes a long way especially during such a sensitive time as wedding planning. You'd think he'd know that by now. I still can't believe what he said in reference to Josie going gown shopping. Smh

I've wonder that at first because he seemed nice in the beginning and less annoying compared to most of his brothers. But he's made similar comments and scenes since which makes me think that's probably more what the real Nathan is like. To be that rude to Michael over her dress and go off on Tori about hair?  Its the same as Lawson going off on Twitter, both are showing the person they really are. They did a better job hiding it when the show first started but now that its been running for several seasons that they don't think they need to or are forgetting too. In Nathan's case it didn't last long since he made those comments to Michael in the first episode of season three. 

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Nathan lives in a fundie bubble where he's heard things like that his whole life and he's taught that his opinions are valued because he has a penis. The people around him probably aren't as shocked by the things he says as we are because we are living in an overall culture that is trying to do better and teach our children and ourselves as women that we don't have to internalize and accept this kind of crap from men anymore. It probably doesn't occur to Nathan that someone watching might be turned off by his comments about women - in fact, he probably doesn't care because of the whole value of his penis thing. He wasn't taught any better and as an adult he obviously isn't interested in being any better in spite of his gross culture. If anything, I like when he spews this B.S. on national television so that it spoils the veneer of the whole Bates package. 

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15 hours ago, TatiFish9 said:

I'd forgotten about his comment to Michael. I remember wondering why she included the guys on her trip. They complained almost the entire time including Gil making comments towards the very end.

If I remember correctly, they came along went to the fitting and drove about 8 hours round trip so they could have pizza.  There was food involved, it was really stupid and they had no business being there.

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12 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

as all the beautiful children and matching dresses in the world can't hide their hideous beliefs

They dropped the matching dresses, kept the terrible beliefs but do an amazing job at sugar coating what they really are. 

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19 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

If I remember correctly, they came along went to the fitting and drove about 8 hours round trip so they could have pizza.  There was food involved, it was really stupid and they had no business being there.

It was also because there was some stop in Nashville, which seems to hold special appeal to those Bates kids. I know it is a bit rural, but they do have pizza in Rocky Top and they also have cars so they can drive where they want. It's not like they are the girls and stuck waiting for a chaperone. 

I do feel bad for the girls in the family when it comes to their wedding dress shopping. Kelly Jo is horrible with comments about how she hopes they are not wasting their time to go look for something that isn't at Ms. Renee's. Way to put pressure on these girls. I get that dress shopping is annoying to many of us. I hate it and would never pull in a crowd to watch me do it. However, it is the first major decision many of them have ever made. Their boyfriends are approved by Gil. They basically know that marriage is in the cards if Gil approves. College is a limited choice. Even college major is a limited choice. So other than hair color and which denim skirt to wear...they don't get much say so in their lives. The dress is the big choice. 

Comments from people like Nathan only seek to put them down into that place where they again have no choice or say so in their own lives. 

20 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

It actually is a good idea to stop looking at wedding dresses once you find one you like. Continuing to look can cause some women to overthink their first choice and have trouble deciding whether they want to keep it or get a new dress. That can work out really well for some Brides, including a poster here who got married about a year ago and went through this herself, but it can also end up being a costly choice to keep looking if you already purchased a dress and find another one. So I will say that Lawson at least had a point. A very small one, but still. Nathan was just an asshole.

(I can’t remember the circumstances of that specific example though, so I could be wrong and maybe she had a great reason to keep looking at that point.)

Lawson had more of a point, but he was clearly just wanting to hurry along. At that point, Michaela found the dress she wanted and realized it was more expensive than she was wanting to spend. This was another trip to a cheaper place. She tried on the first dress and said she liked it but didn't think it was right. He apparently thought she was going to go in, pick one, and leave. She was doing what most of us do, which is...I like the top on this one and the skirt on this one, but I don't like either enough to say that's the one. 

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26 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

It was also because there was some stop in Nashville, which seems to hold special appeal to those Bates kids. I know it is a bit rural, but they do have pizza in Rocky Top and they also have cars so they can drive where they want. It's not like they are the girls and stuck waiting for a chaperone. 

I do feel bad for the girls in the family when it comes to their wedding dress shopping. Kelly Jo is horrible with comments about how she hopes they are not wasting their time to go look for something that isn't at Ms. Renee's. Way to put pressure on these girls. I get that dress shopping is annoying to many of us. I hate it and would never pull in a crowd to watch me do it. However, it is the first major decision many of them have ever made. Their boyfriends are approved by Gil. They basically know that marriage is in the cards if Gil approves. College is a limited choice. Even college major is a limited choice. So other than hair color and which denim skirt to wear...they don't get much say so in their lives. The dress is the big choice. 

Comments from people like Nathan only seek to put them down into that place where they again have no choice or say so in their own lives. 

Lawson had more of a point, but he was clearly just wanting to hurry along. At that point, Michaela found the dress she wanted and realized it was more expensive than she was wanting to spend. This was another trip to a cheaper place. She tried on the first dress and said she liked it but didn't think it was right. He apparently thought she was going to go in, pick one, and leave. She was doing what most of us do, which is...I like the top on this one and the skirt on this one, but I don't like either enough to say that's the one. 

Ah. I wasn’t sure if he said that during that part, but I do remember her not wanting to get the dress that was over her budget. So yes then, he was being a jerk about it. 

If anyone ever asked my advice, I definitely wouldn’t recommend taking a lot of people unless you’re comfortable with a lot of opinions. I’d also recommend having a firm budget in mind (as Michael did) and having a general idea of what you might like. That’s what I did for my wedding. I went with just my mom, tried five dresses in my price range I thought I might like, picked the second one, and then spent the rest of the appointment talking about Game of Thrones with mom and the consultant. Best dress shopping experience ever. ?

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17 hours ago, TatiFish9 said:

@rebeccawriter01

I'd forgotten about his comment to Michael. I remember wondering why she included the guys on her trip. They complained almost the entire time including Gil making comments towards the very end. I can see Michael attempting to be diplomatic in allowing them to go along. I bet she regretted in the end. Her brothers were so annoying. Nathan was rude but disguised it as honesty. I can't tell if he is dumb blunt, mean- spirited or just plain bitter. But a little bit of kindness goes a long way especially during such a sensitive time as wedding planning. You'd think he'd know that by now. I still can't believe what he said in reference to Josie going gown shopping. Smh

Because UP told them to include the guys. You really think these scenes are not scripted and reflect reality?

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1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Ah. I wasn’t sure if he said that during that part, but I do remember her not wanting to get the dress that was over her budget. So yes then, he was being a jerk about it. 

If anyone ever asked my advice, I definitely wouldn’t recommend taking a lot of people unless you’re comfortable with a lot of opinions. I’d also recommend having a firm budget in mind (as Michael did) and having a general idea of what you might like. That’s what I did for my wedding. I went with just my mom, tried five dresses in my price range I thought I might like, picked the second one, and then spent the rest of the appointment talking about Game of Thrones with mom and the consultant. Best dress shopping experience ever. ?

I second bringing a small group and having a set budget. I just went and got mine last month and only brought my stepmom and two bridesmaids and it was the best experience. Not a lot of people giving opinions, everyone knew the budget and my style, and it took only an hour to find the perfect dress. My dad is a lot like Nathan is, and I had to be very firm that he was not coming because I didn’t want those kind of comments being made. 

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42 minutes ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

I second bringing a small group and having a set budget. I just went and got mine last month and only brought my stepmom and two bridesmaids and it was the best experience. Not a lot of people giving opinions, everyone knew the budget and my style, and it took only an hour to find the perfect dress. My dad is a lot like Nathan is, and I had to be very firm that he was not coming because I didn’t want those kind of comments being made. 

Congratulations on finding your dress! And on your engagement too! :) 

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48 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Congratulations on finding your dress! And on your engagement too! :) 

Thanks! We got engaged over a year ago, and still have a year and a half to go, but I’m so excited that I found the dress. It’s super not fundie approved, and my very conservative dad hates it, but I knew it was the one the moment the consultant pulled it into the dressing room! ?

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6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

They dropped the matching dresses

I was thinking about Alyssa's weekly church visits.  I don't know as much about old school Bates, but the frumpers the Duggars wore were not winning anybody over.

And you're right, they may win people over and appear less nasty to many but I meant myself specifically.  I have dear family members who are gay and they can be a beautiful as they like but I can't forget any of these people in IFB want to strip them of the right to love who they want to love.  It makes me really angry.

Edited by GuineaPigCourtship
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3 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I was thinking about Alyssa's weekly church visits.  I don't know as much about old school Bates, but the frumpers the Duggars wore were not winning anybody over.

The Bates sported the frumpy prairie dress look for quite a while after the Duggars moved on to risque denim skirts. On the first episode that the Bates appeared on 17 Kids and Counting, TLC showed both families all in a row outside the TTC and when they panned over the Bates in their Nellie Olsen dresses they inserted a horror movie scream.

The Bates have always infuriated me more than the Duggars. I feel like an hour with the Duggars would just bore me to death, while the Bates are just so loud and obnoxious and overbearing. Also Gil = IBLP Board of Directors.

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On 6/19/2019 at 9:16 PM, Screamapillar said:

The Bates have always infuriated me more than the Duggars. I feel like an hour with the Duggars would just bore me to death, while the Bates are just so loud and obnoxious and overbearing. Also Gil = IBLP Board of Directors.

I have never figured out why IBLP picked Gil over Jim Bob. They are both icky but I would think that JB would be a better choice simply because he appears to be a bigger success story. 

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When Nathan was courting Ashley and they were in New York City, it started raining and Nathan was all dissappointed, because now there was nothing they could do/see???. That Guy has the emotional maturity of a well used asswipe.

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I guess Nathan has never heard of or seen an umbrella before. [emoji299][emoji849]

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5 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

I have never figured out why IBLP picked Gil over Jim Bob. They are both icky but I would think that JB would be a better choice simply because he appears to be a bigger success story. 

The leading theory here is that Gil and Kelly were more focused on moving up the ranks than the Duggars were and that Gothard felt Gil (and the other Board Members involved) would be easier to control. He obviously badly misjudged on that one because Gil, Dr. Paine, and at least one other person turned on him in a hot second when he became a liability.

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I never got the impression that Jim Bob and Michelle were trying to move up the IBLP ranks. That appeared to be the goal of Gil and Kelly because they moved up the ranks of IBLP pretty quickly. IMO Gil and Kelly are very, very, VERY good at manipulating their image and the people around them. I'm sure they did everything to convince Bill they were going to obey him. They sent their teen daughters to other countries as his companions, they even had a cake for him at Erin's wedding. And when they had the chance they stabbed him in the back and took all the money and power. 

There are rumors they are getting ready to redo the Basic/Advanced seminars to remove Gothard. I wouldn't be surprised if Gil is the Gothard replacement for making the videos. 

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6 hours ago, Jody said:

When Nathan was courting Ashley and they were in New York City, it started raining and Nathan was all dissappointed, because now there was nothing they could do/see???. That Guy has the emotional maturity of a well used asswipe.

I have soooooo much I could say about Nathan, but this pretty much sums it up :clap:

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The fact that the Bateseses church appears to be growing is proof to me that they are master manipulators selling a wholesome family image that disguises ugly truths.  I also wonder how many Christians they are stealing from other nearby churches to grow said Bateseses church.

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4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I'm sure they did everything to convince Bill they were going to obey him. They sent their teen daughters to other countries as his companions, they even had a cake for him at Erin's wedding. And when they had the chance they stabbed him in the back and took all the money and power. 

That is some Game of Thrones shit! (Or, if you prefer, some Ides of March shit.)

My money was on Pecan to be the new Gothard, but while Gil is probably a worse public speaker, he’s got that “fatherly” charisma that’s very Cult Leader Chic.

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If anyone is going to win Game of Fundies it will be Gil and Kelly!

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5 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

The leading theory here is that Gil and Kelly were more focused on moving up the ranks than the Duggars were and that Gothard felt Gil (and the other Board Members involved) would be easier to control. He obviously badly misjudged on that one because Gil, Dr. Paine, and at least one other person turned on him in a hot second when he became a liability.

Oh yeah, the BoD.  I put some time into researching that.  There has always been a lot of turnover on the BoD but Gothard pretty much loaded it with yes-men for years.

I'm doing a cut and paste from my cheat sheet.

At the time the brown matter hit the revolving object in 2014, this was the board.  Bill Gothard was "put on administrative leave" in February 2014, for context.

Long-term members:

Dr. Billy Boring, MD:  McKinney, Texas (chairman of the board).  Resigned March, 2014.  Actually ran like a bunny from the foxes.

John Stancil:  Also chairman of the board for Crown College in Tennessee. Former director at Sword of th Lord forced out after nasty scandal.  Owns a bus company.  Supported BG. Can't figure out how to use email and was hand in glove with Gibbs III.  His name came up in the lawsuit many times.  Was forced off board by June 2014.

Ralph Hudgens: Commissioner of Insurance for the State of Georgia.  Ran like a bunny very fast - gone by March.

Bernie Reece, Esq.:  A lawyer in his 80s from Rockford, Illinois.  Asked intelligent questions of RG.  Ran like a bunny very early on probably because he disagreed with the conclusions of the fake investigation and could see the writing on the wall.

Anthony Burrus:  Token minority and autodidact from  Waco, TX.  Ran like a bunny by March.

Then the newcomers and young bloods who performed the takeover.  They had completed the ousting of all other board members by June 2014 and appointed Tim Levendusky as President.  

David York.  A pastor in Greenfield, WI.   Mystery man joined the board in 2012 (ish).  Probably just a rubber stamp for Paine and Bates.

Stephen Paine, MD.  Joined the board 2012.  Had been hanging around for ages and knew what was going on at IBLP.  Worked on Gothard's book How to Resolve Seven Deadly Stresses,  Paine also worked at Gothard's centers in Indianapolis and Oak Brook, but now a prison physician.  Son. Nate, deep in IBLP prison ministry in Florida. Tabitha and Thomas on staff at IBLP.  Chad we know about.

Gil Bates:  Joined the board late 2012 or early 2013.  Had previously been on the Advisory board and did something with ATI.   Clawed his way to the top of the pile.

Edited by Palimpsest
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Funny how fast all the old timers ran. I really think they were provided with evidence of some really bad shit which is why they bolted and why the BoD won't let anyone view what the report says. Not even Gothard has seen it. They keep it under lock and key. 

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