The Ark Encounter has opened!!

[HereticHick]

There is a nice piece in the Washington Post yesterday about Christian tourist attractions:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2016/07/18/looking-for-god-in-the-colorful-world-of-americas-christian-entertainment-destinations/?hpid=hp_no-name_photo-story-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

"...At a media preview in early July for Ark Encounter, Ham said, “I believe this is going to be one of the greatest Christian outreaches of this era of history.”

Financial documents released by Ark Encounter, LLC—the for-profit company that the non-profit AIG uses to run its new attraction—seem to raise questions about that confidence. The firm lists more than three dozen risks to potential bondholders, including negative cash flow, adverse publicity, environmental regulations, bad weather, and animals in their care getting infectious diseases.

A study commissioned and released by AIG boasts that their biblical attraction will receive a healthy 1.2 million to 2.2 million visitors annually. However, an economic impact review by Hunden Strategic Partners, commissioned by the state of Kentucky, estimates that, in a best case scenario, attendance at Ark Encounter will hit a peak of 640,000 by its third year in operation and then settle near 400,000 attendees per year...

That drop-off would emulate a similar pattern at Ham’s $27 million Creation Museum. Ham and other AIG representatives vigorously deny reports that attendance has fallen off. But the state-commissioned Hunden found that “attendance figures have decreased” each year from 2007 through 2013. A feasibility study released by Ark Encounter in support of its bond offering confirms the Hunden report’s assessment, revealing that Creation Museum attendance has dropped every year, from 404,000 visitors in 2007 to 236,583 in fiscal year 2012-2013 (the most recent year reported). Drop-off or not, Ham believes Ark Encounter will soon buoy its elder sibling.

To deal with this anticipated influx, the Creation Museum plans to nearly triple in size over the next three years. In April, officials in Boone County, Ky., gave the go-ahead for the massive expansion. If Ham’s ambitions appear quixotic, the relics of other Christian destinations reveal a sobering reality. In Connecticut, graffiti covers a stainless steel cross at the remains of the biblical theme park Holy Land USA, which closed in 1984 and in Iowa, cardboard cutouts of Jesus and Saint Peter protrude from a pond outside the recently shuttered Museum of Religious Arts..."

[Mercer]

After seeing pictures from inside the attraction, I'm even more concerned about the fire safety issue I mentioned earlier. I'm actually pretty baffled that it's up to code. Most of the rooms appear to have doors leading only to the previous room and the next room as their means of egress. These doorways appear to be mostly open with a lack of fire doors that could be shut in an emergency to block the spread of a fire. I don't see any lighted exit signs or accessible fire extinguishers, or very many doors leading to the exterior or to fire escapes. I don't see a single door with a crash bar inside the attraction. (There may be one on the middle door in one of the photos; I can't tell because there are people in front of it.) There also appear to be flammable items everywhere. I'm sure the materials are treated since it's a public attraction, but you can only make wood, cloth, and fur so resistant to flame no matter what you treat them with. The fact that the blog author commented repeatedly on how dark it is compounds the other issues; that would make it even harder for guests to evacuate safely in an emergency because they can't easily see where they're going.

I realize it's hard to judge from pictures because the angles may not catch everything, but unless the blog author was actively trying to make the premises look unsafe (which I doubt, since the blog had nothing to do with fire safety,) I don't see how it would be possible to accidentally completely avoid capturing the safety features if they were there.

Much as I dislike fundie beliefs, I don't want them to go literally die in a fire, so this legitimately scares me. I hope there is never any occasion that would put it to the test, but if there ever was a fire on the premises when there were guests in the attraction, I'm afraid this would turn into a death trap horror story.  

[Cleopatra7]

4 hours ago, HereticHick said:

There is a nice piece in the Washington Post yesterday about Christian tourist attractions:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2016/07/18/looking-for-god-in-the-colorful-world-of-americas-christian-entertainment-destinations/?hpid=hp_no-name_photo-story-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

"...At a media preview in early July for Ark Encounter, Ham said, “I believe this is going to be one of the greatest Christian outreaches of this era of history.”

Financial documents released by Ark Encounter, LLC—the for-profit company that the non-profit AIG uses to run its new attraction—seem to raise questions about that confidence. The firm lists more than three dozen risks to potential bondholders, including negative cash flow, adverse publicity, environmental regulations, bad weather, and animals in their care getting infectious diseases.

A study commissioned and released by AIG boasts that their biblical attraction will receive a healthy 1.2 million to 2.2 million visitors annually. However, an economic impact review by Hunden Strategic Partners, commissioned by the state of Kentucky, estimates that, in a best case scenario, attendance at Ark Encounter will hit a peak of 640,000 by its third year in operation and then settle near 400,000 attendees per year...

That drop-off would emulate a similar pattern at Ham’s $27 million Creation Museum. Ham and other AIG representatives vigorously deny reports that attendance has fallen off. But the state-commissioned Hunden found that “attendance figures have decreased” each year from 2007 through 2013. A feasibility study released by Ark Encounter in support of its bond offering confirms the Hunden report’s assessment, revealing that Creation Museum attendance has dropped every year, from 404,000 visitors in 2007 to 236,583 in fiscal year 2012-2013 (the most recent year reported). Drop-off or not, Ham believes Ark Encounter will soon buoy its elder sibling.

To deal with this anticipated influx, the Creation Museum plans to nearly triple in size over the next three years. In April, officials in Boone County, Ky., gave the go-ahead for the massive expansion. If Ham’s ambitions appear quixotic, the relics of other Christian destinations reveal a sobering reality. In Connecticut, graffiti covers a stainless steel cross at the remains of the biblical theme park Holy Land USA, which closed in 1984 and in Iowa, cardboard cutouts of Jesus and Saint Peter protrude from a pond outside the recently shuttered Museum of Religious Arts..."

I have to wonder how many visitors to the Creation "Museum" are true believers, like the Duggars, and how many are just there to mock it. The numbers of both must be rather small and not enough to keep the "museum" solvent in the long-term.

[mango_fandango]

On 12 July 2016 at 6:07 PM, THERetroGamerNY said:

So we have raging gun violence... Global climate change... Trump... China and the South Sea... Desperate attempts to get people to realize that black lives matter... Drought... Famine... Super viruses...

And what does this fundie do with all his money and resources?

He builds a giant boat, that cannot float, and puts unicorns and dinosaurs in it.

O_o

Oh God, I totally snorted at that last line. 

It's totally bizarre what people believe. 

And it sounds like God has major anger management issues. Omnibenevolent my ass.

[ALM7]

One would hope public schools wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to send students to a religious extravaganza. The tax breaks provided by the state were bad enough, especially when it's doubtful the Ark Encounter will generate a return on the state/taxpayer investment within a reasonable amount of time.

Clip from article...

Atheist group warns public schools against field trips to Ark Park … More specifically, the Freedom from Religion Foundation sent a “warning” to more than 1000 school districts in Kentucky and neighboring states, advising them against field trips to the Ark Park. The Ark Park, says FFRF, is a Christian ministry (as opposed to an educational museum), and they quote Ken Ham as having penned a letter, “Our Real Motive for Building Ark Encounter,”

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/ark-park/

[Anonymousguest]

23 hours ago, ALM7 said:

One would hope public schools wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to send students to a religious extravaganza. The tax breaks provided by the state were bad enough, especially when it's doubtful the Ark Encounter will generate a return on the state/taxpayer investment within a reasonable amount of time.

Clip from article...

Atheist group warns public schools against field trips to Ark Park … More specifically, the Freedom from Religion Foundation sent a “warning” to more than 1000 school districts in Kentucky and neighboring states, advising them against field trips to the Ark Park. The Ark Park, says FFRF, is a Christian ministry (as opposed to an educational museum), and they quote Ken Ham as having penned a letter, “Our Real Motive for Building Ark Encounter,”

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/ark-park/

The tax break they get is a rebate on sales tax. So if the Ark doesn't do well neither the state nor attraction benefit. There was no initial state or tax investment.

[Peas n carrots]

After seeing pictures from inside the attraction, I'm even more concerned about the fire safety issue I mentioned earlier. I'm actually pretty baffled that it's up to code. Most of the rooms appear to have doors leading only to the previous room and the next room as their means of egress. These doorways appear to be mostly open with a lack of fire doors that could be shut in an emergency to block the spread of a fire. I don't see any lighted exit signs or accessible fire extinguishers, or very many doors leading to the exterior or to fire escapes. I don't see a single door with a crash bar inside the attraction. (There may be one on the middle door in one of the photos; I can't tell because there are people in front of it.) There also appear to be flammable items everywhere. I'm sure the materials are treated since it's a public attraction, but you can only make wood, cloth, and fur so resistant to flame no matter what you treat them with. The fact that the blog author commented repeatedly on how dark it is compounds the other issues; that would make it even harder for guests to evacuate safely in an emergency because they can't easily see where they're going.

I realize it's hard to judge from pictures because the angles may not catch everything, but unless the blog author was actively trying to make the premises look unsafe (which I doubt, since the blog had nothing to do with fire safety,) I don't see how it would be possible to accidentally completely avoid capturing the safety features if they were there.

Much as I dislike fundie beliefs, I don't want them to go literally die in a fire, so this legitimately scares me. I hope there is never any occasion that would put it to the test, but if there ever was a fire on the premises when there were guests in the attraction, I'm afraid this would turn into a death trap horror story. [emoji20] 

So FJ'ers a like minded friend and I have booked a trip to the Creation Museum and Ark Encounter on October 21st. We are staying in Cincy and commuting over to the museum and Ark Encounter.

As for fire codes - my friend who is attending is a former Chicago City Inspector so I'll ask her to give an assessment. Fire codes differ from city to city, but I imagine they would have had to have had the municipality sign off on the very basics before opening?

[CTRLZero]

On 7/8/2016 at 7:57 PM, applejack said:

If we're looking for someone to go to see this thing and snark it, I nominate John Scalzi, who's visit to the Creation Museum still cracks me up.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/11/12/your-creation-museum-report/

He links his photos on Flickr in there too: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/sets/72157603091357751/

 

What an excellent perspective! 

I have read some of John Scalzi's books, so I immediately pictured the dinosaurs on the ark wearing red shirts.  It would be great if he did a writeup on the Ark Encounter.

+ =

[PennySycamore]

@Peas n carrots, considering what happened at the Beverly Hills Supper Club in nearby Southgate, Kentucky in May, 1977 where 165 people perished and over 200 were injured in a fire which engulfed the club, you'd really hope that the Ark Encounter has better than adequate fire safety structures and procedures.

Here's the wikipedia article about the fire:

Beverly Hills Supper Club fire

[LadyCrow1313]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:07 PM, THERetroGamerNY said:

So we have raging gun violence... Global climate change... Trump... China and the South Sea... Desperate attempts to get people to realize that black lives matter... Drought... Famine... Super viruses...

And what does this fundie do with all his money and resources?

He builds a giant boat, that cannot float, and puts unicorns and dinosaurs in it.

O_o

So are you saying that if he liked it he should've put a ring on it?

2 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

What an excellent perspective! 

I have read some of John Scalzi's books, so I immediately pictured the dinosaurs on the ark wearing red shirts.  It would be great if he did a writeup on the Ark Encounter.

+ =

That's the best explanation as to why the dinosaurs died out. Totally makes sense! (LLAP)

[Howl]

Don't know if this was addressed upthread, but Jimmy Carter visited Ark Encounter in June.   He is friends with the architect -- they are both on the board of Habitat for Humanity -- and he wanted to check out the woodworking involved. Jimmy Carter noted that he does believe in evolution! 

[ALM7]

On 7/12/2016 at 1:35 PM, Screamapillar said:

It's a giant picture of a dinosaur with the caption "276 Miles Away." And then it says Creation Museum, much smaller, at the bottom. Trying to lure innocent passerby in with the promise of dinosaurs! Now I'll be on the lookout for Ark Encounter billboards.

Perhaps, paired animals, surrounded by 5 gal. white buckets?

::naugler reference::

[Buzzard]

An "adult" is over 13 - $40

5-12 - $28

60+ $31

If a typical fundie family is 8 people, they're looking at:

2 under 5 - free

2 5-12 - $56

4 "adult" - $160

Plus $10 to park...

$226 just to get in the door... thats quite a chunk of change

 

[ALM7]

On 7/23/2016 at 11:14 AM, Anonymousguest said:

The tax break they get is a rebate on sales tax. So if the Ark doesn't do well neither the state nor attraction benefit. There was no initial state or tax investment.

Thank you for the additional info. The article I sourced before my original post stated  http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article73971147.html

"A state agency remade by Gov. Matt Bevin last week has approved $18 million in tax breaks to a Grant County amusement park that will feature a “life-size” Noah’s Ark."

"The tax break allows approved tourism sites to recover as much as 25 percent of their investment through a rebate of state sales taxes paid by visitors. The theme park also will receive tax breaks from Grant County and the city of Williamstown. The state also designated $11 million in road funds for an expanded interchange off Interstate 75"

I hope in time, the city and county taxpayers will see a return on their road investment. 11 million to build an expanded interchange for AE/AIG sounds risky. According to some reports, the Creation Museum is struggling with attendance, AE may see the same fate. 

Thanks again for the information @Anonymousguest, I was going off the article, and wasn't aware it was performance based rebates. That makes it a little better lol.    

[Howl]

17 minutes ago, ALM7 said:

Thanks again for the information @Anonymousguest, I was going off the article, and wasn't aware it was performance based rebates. That makes it a little better lol.  

Well, that means it will *sink* or *float* on its own merits.  My moneys on *sink* in the years ahead unless they find something else to keep it going, like an adjacent biblical themed amusement park.  Maybe a water park called Six Floods where  you can experience what it was like if you didn't make it onto the Ark and then an arid area, where you could experience a plague of locusts, fast in the desert, be turned into a column of salt, pretend to be the Four Horsemen, be raptured, see the Burning Bush, the regular biblical stuff.   

re: fire safety.  I truly hope this structure does not get struck by lightning. 

I doubt there are many biblical literalists who post on FJ.  Just so you know, I'd like to think I'm posting in the spirit of Ken Hamm, who is definitely into manifesting biblical spectacle. 

[Mercer]

On 7/25/2016 at 9:03 AM, Peas n carrots said:

As for fire codes - my friend who is attending is a former Chicago City Inspector so I'll ask her to give an assessment. Fire codes differ from city to city, but I imagine they would have had to have had the municipality sign off on the very basics before opening?

 

Please keep us posted. One can only tell so much from pictures. This is one situation where I'd be happy to be wrong and would love to hear that it's safer than it looks.

[Cleopatra7]

5 hours ago, Buzzard said:

An "adult" is over 13 - $40

5-12 - $28

60+ $31

If a typical fundie family is 8 people, they're looking at:

2 under 5 - free

2 5-12 - $56

4 "adult" - $160

Plus $10 to park...

$226 just to get in the door... thats quite a chunk of change

 

These stats alone mean that the demographic most likely to enjoy the Ark Experience are going to be priced out of attending. Even a small fundie family of four to six people will find the Ark Experience too expensive, especially since there's not much else to do at the site itself or the surrounding areas, as is the case with many other attractions. There are better things for a fundie family to do than go to the Ark Encounter, and I will be surprised if it or the Creation "Museum" are still around in 15-20 years.

[iheartchacos]

Made the mistake of asking a fundie life friend if she believed in animal evolution (I realize I should have known he answer now) and got a spiel about 'death before sin' and then she put on some show which I now see was Ken Ham explaining young earth and telling kids to ask 'were you there?' In response to scientific explanations.

Y'all. I'm so enlightened now. Dinosaurs are all up in the bible!

[tankgirl]

18 hours ago, Howl said:

Well, that means it will *sink* or *float* on its own merits.  My moneys on *sink* in the years ahead unless they find something else to keep it going, like an adjacent biblical themed amusement park.  Maybe a water park called Six Floods where  you can experience what it was like if you didn't make it onto the Ark and then an arid area, where you could experience a plague of locusts, fast in the desert, be turned into a column of salt, pretend to be the Four Horsemen, be raptured, see the Burning Bush, the regular biblical stuff.   

re: fire safety.  I truly hope this structure does not get struck by lightning. 

I doubt there are many biblical literalists who post on FJ.  Just so you know, I'd like to think I'm posting in the spirit of Ken Hamm, who is definitely into manifesting biblical spectacle. 

I admit I hope it does get struck by lightening, but at night when everyone is out, then it can safely get torched, by God, in a most spectactular fashion. Bet they don't take it as a sign from God either. 

[apple1]

22 hours ago, Howl said:

Well, that means it will *sink* or *float* on its own merits.  My moneys on *sink* in the years ahead unless they find something else to keep it going,..

re: fire safety.  I truly hope this structure does not get struck by lightning...

Ditto. I live within not-to-difficult driving distance of both the creation museum and this "ark". While I know a significant number of people/families who have gone to the creation museum - I nor my family have ever gone. Not even the slightest interest in being bothered, definitely have better things to do with my money. (King's Island - list price entry is $61 but discounts are everywhere that take actual one-day admission down to $39 or 40 - is closer and more fun. Or a nice dinner in some restaurant, or something). Additionally - the people I know who have gone to the creation museum and liked it - it's kind of a one-time, you have seen it, why go again? thing. I CANNOT imagine an interest in going to this "ark" more than once or at the most twice, no matter how much someone sees things the Ken Ham way.

Bottom line - seems unsustainable over the long run.

Aside: Decades ago, Ken Ham was the guest speaker/preacher at a church where I attended at the time. I have to say, I never would have foreseen this whole creation-museum-build-an-ark-in-Kentucky thing. (shaking head)

[IreneIssh]

Looked around and didn't see this posted and I just needed to share this agonizing debate with other folks. 

 

[desertvixen]

I don't have the patience to watch it right now, but I must say that Bill Nye's WTF? face in the screenshot is marvelous.

[IreneIssh]

13 minutes ago, desertvixen said:

I don't have the patience to watch it right now, but I must say that Bill Nye's WTF? face in the screenshot is marvelous.

It's worth it when you have the time. Bill is a trooper through the whole thing, and he's surrounded by fundamentalist kids who all side with Ken Ham. It would be hard to see so many indoctrinated kids when you're a science educator. He gets in some really good responses, too. 

I might have to make one of his WTF faces my avatar. So many good ones. 

[DaisyD]

I really hope he comes to the March for Science. I love him!

[Howl]

12 hours ago, DaisyD said:

I really hope he comes to the March for Science. I love him!

And the Science Guy can rock a bow tie like nobody's business!