Women only hours in a public pool

[Lillymuffin]

31 minutes ago, alexandracabot said:

Two those who pointed out pools have senior and kids' swim times: yes, but almost always not to the exclusion of the entire pool. It's confined to a few lanes.

And to those who pointed out that there are sex-segregated gyms: yes, but not public gyms on public property paid for by taxpayer money.

Actually, at the public pool on public property funded by taxpayer money in the town where I grew up when it's time for adult swim, twice a day for 90 minutes (once in the morning and once in the afternoon), the lifeguards blow their whistles and everyone under 18 has to clear the pool. It's been like this for at least 30 years that I know of.

I realize it's not accommodating a religious group but an age bracket, but the principle is the same. Everybody gives a little so that more people can enjoy themselves. I just don't think that's so terrible. Maybe I'm wrong. 

[alexandracabot]

7 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

"Public" pools in my city are simply not open for more than a few hours a week. They are closed to the general public, for the majority of the time. There is an hour when "disabled" people can use it. There are times when it's open for kids. There are time when it's open for senior. And then there is one hour a day every other day when it's open for adult lap swimming. And one hour for open swim. NO ONE ELSE is allowed in during each of these times. The majority of the time it's just closed. Or for gym class or something> I don't know. I stopped worrying about the public pool because it was more expensive than the private pool. 

But do they discriminate on the basis of gender, which is a protected class, on the basis of religious beliefs, which are supposed to be separate from governmental policy? Because that's the issue here.

7 hours ago, Lillymuffin said:

Actually, at the public pool on public property funded by taxpayer money in the town where I grew up when it's time for adult swim, twice a day for 90 minutes (once in the morning and once in the afternoon), the lifeguards blow their whistles and everyone under 18 has to clear the pool. It's been like this for at least 30 years that I know of.

I realize it's not accommodating a religious group but an age bracket, but the principle is the same. Everybody gives a little so that more people can enjoy themselves. I just don't think that's so terrible. Maybe I'm wrong. 

I don't think it's *terrible*. It's just plainly against the law. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Here's a well-written opinion piece that pretty well accomplishes what I think should be said:

http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/06/womens-only-swimming-hours-accommodation-is-not-discrimination

There are lots of truly unfair practices in the world.  This isn't one to me.

[princessmahina]

4 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

Here's a well-written opinion piece that pretty well accomplishes what I think should be said:

http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/06/womens-only-swimming-hours-accommodation-is-not-discrimination

There are lots of truly unfair practices in the world.  This isn't one to me.

That was a great article. I really liked getting it from the perspective of someone who needs to take advantage of those kinds of accommodations. Thanks for sharing!

[Kittikatz]

The public pools in my city have multiple times when access to the pool is restricted to certain types of people. There are men's swims, parent and tot (u4) swims, women's swims, senior swims as well as swim times for disabled people. There are also times when the place is blocked off for childrens swimming lessons, or teams or lane swimming or synchro or diving. There are also hours allotted each day for general admission. The amount of access restricted hours that each facility is closed to general admission vary by season, as well as the type of pool facility (some are Olympic standard pools and those are booked more for lane swimmers or teams and diving, and have few general admission hours, others are designed as more family pools and don't have the lanes or the depth, so they have more general admission hours). The pools are meant to be for all of us, but it seems accepted here that general admission isn't always the best or most efficient way to serve all of the public.

Anyone who wants to suggest a new type of restricted swim can do so by contacting the community services area of the city. Someone I know has recently requested a trans swim time and it sounds like the city is going to go ahead with it. The issues are more around whether there will be adequate numbers of participants, and getting a 'good time slot' at a specific facility than anything else.

As an aside, the large water park here (owned by a very religious Jewish family) has spearate women's and men's evenings a couple of times a year, and those are serious fun. I suspect they started at the request of some of the Hasidic community, but they have evolved into their own creature... The bar and restaurant are open, the music is on (sometimes they have a DJ), the curtains are drawn and the ones I've been to have devolved into a hell of a good party with women from all different communities hanging out together, playing in the waves and dancing around. You can tell from some of the swim costumes that there are conservative Muslims, Jews, Hindus and even (occasionally) conservtive hair covering Christians in attendance, but there are many more mainstream women who go because it's a hassle free, and relatively inexpensive fun time. According to a guy I know, the men's evening swims are similar in feel.

[Mirla]

If a substantial percentage of the pool's hours are open only to women, or the hours for women are some of the best hours, I would have an issue with it.  I would also have an issue if they didn't have other exclusive times like adults-only.

 

But if they take a poorly-attended hour or two out of the week, that the tax-payers are currently subsidizing, and can turn it into a profitable time, while giving people who otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable swimming a chance to use the facilities, that's a good thing.

 

But, on the other hand, I'm a bit afraid it could become a slippery slope.  I wouldn't feel the same way if someone was asking for a whites-only swimming time, for example.

 

As a side note, I do wish there was a better way to handle adult-only swim times.  The real issue is normally behavior, not age.  I find it frustrating that I can't take my daughter, who is on a swim team, to lap swims because they are all age restricted.  If she is swimming laps, and is faster than me, why can't she go?

 

[Clementine]

On 2016-07-01 at 1:29 AM, sparkles said:

Yes, I know FJ isn't a "hive vagina" and that there are folks here from all walks of life and belief systems, each with his or her own opinion, but let's be honest and say that a main focus of this site is to rail against patriarchy and the limits and injustices put on women by religion and culture. So I find it interesting that this issue is pretty much being given a pass. This demand for women-only swim times isn't because of harassment, nor is it a safety issue. It's because these women are segregated and marginalized because of religion. Patriarchal religion that says women are lesser-than. Their demand for separate swim times is in no way, shape or form the same as separate swim times for team practice, lessons for beginning swimmers, clear lanes for lap swimmers, exercise classes for seniors—all of which relate only to SWIMMING. In this case, while these women may be there to swim, they're demanding exclusive time strictly because their religions dictate that they be kept apart from men. 

Pools, schools, government, what have you, religion needs to be kept out of the public sector. Period. If you're going to fight against religious marginalization of women, then that includes everything and everywhere. Period. I'm not going to give any group a pass even on something as seemingly inconsequential as segregated pool time because it doing so gives a pass to that continued marginalization as well. 

Let them (meaning any religious group that demands special treatment) build their own damned pool that they can use any time they wish (although I'm sure the women will be afforded considerably less time than the men). Problem solved. Don't make the public pay for your fucked up religious beliefs.

As always, YMMV. 

I agree.

Another thing with the "women only" hours for religious reasons is that no males swimming pool workers are allowed to work, or even be in the building during the women only hours. So they are not only demanding gender segregated hours for themselves, but gender segregated work hours for the pool workers who are paid by the council.
Pools are also asked to cover any windows with blinds so no men can peek inside. 

I really don't think that public funding should be used to condone gender segregation. If certain religious groups want to have total gender segregation, they can rent the pool during off-hours and pay for it themselves, including staff and blinds. That's how they solve the problem here.

[Foudeb]

My pool doesn't have any specific swim times that I'm aware of. There are several lanes and you will be tut-tutted at if you swim too slowly for your lane, so in the fastest lane it's mostly men and in the slowest mostly women. They have large crane-like devices on either end to help lower someone in the water, or pull them out, if they can't use the steps - the other swimmers might have to stay away while they're in use, but it's only at the end of the lane, in one lane, it's really not that much hassle, and certainly far better than telling disabled people they can only swim at certain times.

Also no harassment or body-shaming to report even though the changing areas are mixed. On the contrary people tend to be polite.

I really don't see the need for discrimination. Maybe fundies can rent the pool at a time when it's usually closed if they want to implement their rules. Even though I'm a woman I would be very, very unamused if they implemented women-only times. If anything it would mean that men would feel more empowered to harass women during the mixed times, thinking that if we don't stick to the women-only times it must mean we're up for cat-calling.

 

[brokenminded]

My local pool in the uk has times every day for certain groups. One of the main reasons is so people can get access to actually swim laps without lessons and school groups, which take up the daytime and weekends. There are also water aerobics classes that the pool is closed for. I don't understand why anyone would find this to be a problem. The pool is open from 8 am to 9 pm seven days a week somewhere within that everyone can find an hour that suits them, or attend a specific class. It's not as though the pool is only open 9 to 5 while everyone is at work. The lifeguards are mixed at all times for all groups, including the womens only swim, it's intended to allow body conscious women to exercise not to keep men out, I know of no one who uses it for religious reasons.

I can understand that pools in the US may be different or that peoples work hours may be less regimented than this country, we still close everything at 6pm. I also have no idea if public pools are used all day mon - fri by schools making it hard for adults to get lap time. If male lifeguards are not allowed to work certain shifts that dos seem unfair.