Who is your worst? And Why?

[NeverQuivered]

Michael Pearl is the worst because he advocates spousal rape and literally wrote the manual for beating babies. 

Ken Alexander, the California orthodontist who thinks incest is totes normal is up there. 

Bill Gothard for creating his evil mysogynistic cult that is a total mindfuck whilst he molests young girls. 

These are my top three bottom feeders. 

[EmainMacha]

Michael Pearl. He is a truly evil man and what he has put countless children through with his hateful teachings is utterly unconscionable. I actually rarely read about him as his very existence upsets me.

[smittykins]

The Pearls.  His child training beating methods are responsible for three deaths, and she teaches that wives submit to everything, even rape on their wedding night.

[LilMissMetaphor]

No offense to the thread starter, or anyone who's weighed in, but we've had similar threads before and they always make me a bit edgy.  I criticize and judge people for lots of different reasons, and I don't think they're comparable.  Can you really make a pro/con list for people? I don't care for the "well, they feed their kids, so plus one", "but they insist on skirt-wearing, minus one" type of analysis.  It's just not very quantifiable.

I know we generally restrict ourselves to discussing the privileged white fundies on this side of the globe, but there are horrible people who do horrible things everywhere in the world, of any religion or no religion at all.  There are fathers who throw acid in their daughter's face because she wore a tank top and shorts to school.  I can't say that Steve Anderson or Maxwell, awful excuses for humans as they are, would do that. 

[PsyD2013]

.  Micheal Pearl because he has had a ministry out of beating children in the name of religion.   

[sta_sha]

I'm also going to say the Pearls for the previously stated reasons. Followed by Steve Maxwell. The amount of pleasure he seems to get out of making everyone around him miserable is terrifying.

[SilverBeach]

I agree with everyone, although when the evil is concentrated into one thread it is quite disturbing.

However, Warren Jeffs gets my vote, his very name and crazy eyes makes me shudder.

[jerkit]

1 hour ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

No offense to the thread starter, or anyone who's weighed in, but we've had similar threads before and they always make me a bit edgy.  I criticize and judge people for lots of different reasons, and I don't think they're comparable.  Can you really make a pro/con list for people? I don't care for the "well, they feed their kids, so plus one", "but they insist on skirt-wearing, minus one" type of analysis.  It's just not very quantifiable.

I know we generally restrict ourselves to discussing the privileged white fundies on this side of the globe, but there are horrible people who do horrible things everywhere in the world, of any religion or no religion at all.  There are fathers who throw acid in their daughter's face because she wore a tank top and shorts to school.  I can't say that Steve Anderson or Maxwell, awful excuses for humans as they are, would do that. 

I think there's a huge difference between trying to objectively decide who is the worst fundie and identifying who gives you the biggest emotional reaction. For example, I know objectively that PP is vile but I don't get red hot mad about him. Lori, on the other hand, makes me want to throw things. So I think this topic is valid in the sense that we all react to different aspects of fundamentalism more strongly Than others.

[season of life]

Warren Jeffs is creepy. He makes my skin crawl. I don't think I have a top three. They are all despicable, save for a few positive traits.

[SilverBeach]

Just now, season of life said:

Warren Jeffs is creepy. He makes my skin crawl. I don't think I have a top three. They are all despicable, save for a few positive traits.

I forgot to mention his voice, that dead voice. Just awful evil concentrated badness and inhumanity.

[SilverBeach]

Unfortunately, just when we think we have heard the worst, this rogue's gallery of fake Christians manages to do something even more terrible. The "worst" is a moving target.

If the scope of FJ expanded to include international fundie nut cases of all religious persuasions or none, Curious would definitely need to procure another server. Check out http://cultnews.net/ for daily updates on abusive orgs and people of all types. Its all relative, I suppose, the "most" evil, but in a way they are all equally terrible and destructive, domestic or international.

[fundiefan]

So many. But, of those I know the most about and pay attention to....Pissing Anderson and Stevehovah, hands down.

Of course The Pearls, Duggars, all their minions, Doug Phillips & Bill Gothard are up there too. 

I don't follow many that are regulars around here so I can't rank them.

 

[RosyDaisy]

Kelly Crawford. Personal reasons. She has said awful things about my cousins who live in the same town (cannot comment further on that to protect family privacy) Her comments about the tornadoes of April 27, 2011 being a blessing. I lost a good friend that day. 200+ people died in Alabama alone.

Close 2nd is the Pearls. I don't think that one needs an explanation.

[violynn]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm just going by how much damage they've done and how many lives they fucked up (that we know of) so my list is:

1. Bill Gothard

2. Michael Pearl

This is my vote as well.  Parents, family who are looking for answers for how to best care for their families, their children,  are handed this twisted logic based on a wrong interpretation of the Bible and Christianity by these men, and we have 2nd generation fundies immersed in this lifestyle.  The damage to everyone in the family is long-term and encompasses all forms of abuse.

[princessmahina]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm just going by how much damage they've done and how many lives they fucked up (that we know of) so my list is:

1. Bill Gothard

2. Michael Pearl

For my list, I would switch Gothard and Pearl. Gothard has done untold amounts of harm to people, but AFAIK, no one has died from his teachings. I think that being starved and tortured to death is worse than brainwashing and molesting. You can get therapy and recover somewhat from the latter (horrifying as it is), but once you're dead, you're dead.

[Anny Nym]

Alot of the people we discuss here give me the creeps on many different occassions, but if I had to choose only three, this ones would be the winners ( and it was not a easy decision... so many contestants!)

In alphabetical order:

Stevehova Maxwell. Because the sheer horror of beige-coloured deprivation of everything cheerful this man is able to do to his family. It has somethign Orwellian to it.

Michael Pearl & the Pearls: The hillbilly nutjob, who writes books about systematically abusing  children from his Unabomber hut. He needs to be hold at least partly responsible for several dead children. Him and his wife. I am suspicious about some of his children too.

Jill & David Rodrigues: (given they are indeed real and not a long time running art project by David Lynch ... my personal tinfoil. But I am cynic here, sadly they are real)

Just... just everything. There is something terrible or at least controversial every family we discuss here does at some point. But the Rodrigii do it all at once!

[klynn]

I think they're all the worst. Anyone who promotes/condones child abuse, be it physical, sexual, mental, emotional, is a horrid person.  Anyone who stunts their children educationally is a horrid person.  Anyone who brain washes their children into timid little robots is a horrid person.  Anyone who raises their children in horrific conditions is a horrid person.  I really can't stand any of them.  I sit and look at my little 4 year old daughter, who is smart, funny, and charming, and I can NOT imagine her growing up like some of these kids...the beatings, the virtual slavery. A mindless army for Jesus.  It pisses me off greatly.

[CTRLZero]

I can't even bear to read about Lori Alexander, so I suppose that makes her my worst, but they are all horrible in their own way.  It's terrible that they influence so many others.

So on a random note, I just returned from a Gay Pride parade.  Great turnout.  Only one hellfire preacher with a megaphone as far as I could tell along the route.  My favorite moment:  An all-inclusive church used their large banners to "surround the hate preacher with love."  It occurs to me based on the content of the hate preacher's words, that the fellow spends a great deal of time thinking about all the permutations of same-sex physical love.  I suspect this is true of all the folks we follow here.  They spend way too much time thinking about sex and violence.

 

[ILoveJellybeans]

Michael Pearl.

-His advice has killed children. He does not care.

-Most of the other terrible fundie families who abuse their children have learned it from him. He has also done his part in creating children who are obedient and meek, which makes them the perfect victims for the other predators hiding behind Christianity.

-He raped his wife on their honeymoon

-It seems he hates everyone, he always puts other people down and sees himself as superior.

-He advocates hitting four month olds with plumbing line.

He just generally seems like a psychopath.

[19 cats and counting]

I don't follow as many as some on here do.  I'm only vaguely familiar with Jill Rod, The Pearls, the Naughlers, and the Maxwells.  I don't want to fall down any more rabbit holes at this moment.

My least favorite would be Erika Shupe.  While other fundies have some crazy ass views and beliefs (that are borderline dangerous), I think that deep down they love their kids.

On the other hand, Erika reminds me of someone who cares about the surface.  She cares so much about her image, kids are only an accessory to make her life seem like a 50s sitcom to her.  She so badly wants to be this perfect quiverfull wife, that she thinks of having more kids without caring about the ones she has (but it's ok, just make them sleep in the closet).  If she had to choose between her image and her children, she would choose her image.  

Her control-freak tendencies come at the cost of her children's livelihood.  Because she is consistently on a 'diet' and wants to eat 'healthy' her kids must too.  Her homeschooling is not because she genuinely wants to educate her children, it is to control them.  Her date nights eating takeout and making her kids watch is downright cruel.

My mom's worst qualities are very Erika like.  Especially when it comes to food and the image of a perfect looking home.  To this day, I have food issues from my childhood and have the tendency to hide and guard my food like a dog.  Seeing LFOP brought back many flashbacks.

Also with some of these other fundies, they at least let their kids reach certain milestones at an age-appropriate level.  For example, the Duggar and Bates kids start driving around the age that the state deems appropriate.  Karen Shupe is almost 18 and is just learning to drive.  The Duggars realize that what applies to Josie does not apply to Jana.   When the Howlers supervise courting siblings on dates, they're paid in cash not jellybeans.

[Imrlgoddess]

For me, it's Warren Jeffs and his clan (father and brothers, etc.).  I remember being fascinated by the FLDS years and years ago and just being appalled at the way of life.  At first I thought they were just another, more extreme, version of the Amish or Mennonite.  Upon research, I figured out that the Jeffs' in general were just sick people.  It was Faith Pennington and the Duggar's that brought me to FJ last year, since then I can easily add Micheal Pearl and PP.  I'd heard of the Pearl's but hadn't fallen down the rabbit hole and once I put the link together of PP and the articles I'd seen about "the Arizona preacher", he can go sit in the same corner with Mikey P.  

 The Pennington's are on the list along with the Alexander's...but for me they're still a decent ways off from the major FLDS clans.  

Darwin award winners.........all of'em. 

[samira_catlover]

Using the criteria of "how much long-term damage can you do to the kids after 15-20 years of raising": it's probably a dead-heat tie between Warren Jeffs and Michael Pearl, for sheer soul-killing inner agony while keeping the captives as Stockholmed Syndromed as you can.  Sheer general hatefulness: PP. For carelessness and don't-give-a-damn: the Nauglers, hands down.

For most "what-the-heck-did-I-just-READ?" confusion without deliberate malice---it had to be Dna's Emily.

[Cleopatra7]

I was actually thinking about this a couple of months ago. To be more specific, I was thinking whether the Maxwells or the Duggars were worse. On the one hand, the Duggars at least seem to have fun, as circumscribed as that fun is, but on the other hand, four out of nine of the daughters were molested by Josh and they had to "forgive him" in front of the home church and act like the whole thing had never happened afterward. While there is no sexual abuse that we know of going on with the Maxwells, their whole existence seems to be devoid of any kind of pleasure or happiness; it reminds me of being in prison, to be honest, except the inmates don't even know they're in prison and the sentence never ends. At least the Maxwell influence on homeschooling seems to be receding, while the Duggars seem to be hellbent on remaining in the spotlight, though whether they can get their speaking engagements back is an open question.

I'm convinced that the PP is a psychopath and one of the kids will eventually snap and kill him, just like that case of the neo-Nazi whose ten-year son killed him after years of being exposed to abuse and violence. Unlike most of the people we snark on, his influence seems rather circumscribed, so I think the real brunt of his rhetorical and physical violence is his children. I think Michael Pearl is also a psychopath, because he seems to get off on violence, whether of children or women. Since he influenced so many people for the worse, he would have to be near the top. But Bill Gothard is also a major influence on many of our fundies, and he masks his abusive teachings in grandfatherly smiles and a soft-spoken attitude. Unlike Pearl, Gothard has also managed to worm into mainstream conservatism with his front groups like Cities of Character and Character First, though with the financial crisis IBLP is suffering (along with his own scandals), hopefully those programs are gone now. It's so hard to figure out who is worst when they're all terrible in their own special ways.

[Alisamer]

I'm new and still learning, so I realize my opinion doesn't count for much, but I'm going to go with the Pearls.

Why? Because I heard about them years ago, when I had done no reading at all about fundies and had no idea at all about them. People who are not fundy, and in some cases not even Christian, get recommended their books on child-rearing and go on to follow their terrible, dangerous advice. So many of these people are terrible, but they're awful to their own families, or cloistered inside their cults, or spewing horrible words but considered by the general public to be nutjobs or sideshows. The Pearls are known outside the fundy realm, and are doing damage worldwide. Steve Maxwell is awful, but he's not causing the deaths of random children he's never even met. Same (at least until one of his followers takes up an assault rifle) for PP.

[Mary C Doates]

9 hours ago, smittykins said:

The Pearls.  His child training beating methods are responsible for three deaths, and she teaches that wives submit to everything, even rape on their wedding night.

Have to agree with the Pearl-hate. I think Debi is just as disgusting as her loathsome husband. It is horrifying to think there are people out there who take advice from them.