Daniel Staddon and Kathryn Neely: the most convoluted courtship story ever

[19 cats and counting]

14 hours ago, Mela99 said:

You can't. I equate it to young people with their very first relationship. It's exciting and new and amazing, and a lot of fundies seem to fall immediately into that soulmate-forever-bestest-boyfriend-star-crossed mindset. Makes me think of my cousin on Facebook. She got her first boyfriend at 19 and it was immediate OMG SOULMATE billions of hearts and stars. Couldn't go thirty seconds on Facebook without sharing their love.  But then she found out he was a 19 year old male  And she got a new soulmate and they've been together for six months but they're totally going to get married and be together forever, which is PROVEN by the number of engagement ring, princess, and church emojis after every sentence. That never ends well. If you're not grown up enough to drive a car, pay your own bills, etc., you're not grown up enough to make any other major life decision. 

I think part of it is insecurity and I think part of it is immaturity. Most of us grow out of that and find the person who grows with us but these people aren't given that opportunity. By the time the shock and novelty wears off, they're stuck. Forever. 

This is why I (for the most part) give younger married/engaged/courting fundies a pass for immaturity (Alyssa Bates Webster is a good example).   If they feel those kinds of emotions at someone, they're expected to marry ASAP and start popping out kids.

I will admit that I was like that with my first boyfriend (18).  After we were together a month, I was convinced I was going to marry him and started writing my first name with his last name on my notebooks.  I'm very glad that social media didn't exist then because I shudder to think what my posts would have been. 

[refugee]

8 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

This is why I (for the most part) give younger married/engaged/courting fundies a pass for immaturity (Alyssa Bates Webster is a good example).   If they feel those kinds of emotions at someone, they're expected to marry ASAP and start popping out kids.

I will admit that I was like that with my first boyfriend (18).  After we were together a month, I was convinced I was going to marry him and started writing my first name with his last name on my notebooks.  I'm very glad that social media didn't exist then because I shudder to think what my posts would have been.  

Has there ever been a study done, where they estimated how many pairings someone might go through before finding an actual life mate?

[usedbicycle]

16 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

If that's the case, then where the fuck are mine, damnit?!

(I am also going to politely point out that WNC overwhelmingly supported Bernie Sanders in the primary and Asheville is known throughout the country as a bastion of progressive politics, so hateful stereotypes of Appalachians can DIAF as far as I'm concerned.)

Yeah... I'm well familiar with Asheville and the awesome people it attracts, but it's an island. Support for Bernie among registered democrats says nothing about the percentage of democrats in the area.

The town my MIL lives in, your run-of-the mill rural town, has 3'800 hundred people and 91 churches. You don't make this shit up. We know a few odd bird-watchers, hikers, and hippies that own land around there. There are some cool breweries and artist communities. But on a whole this is Trump land central and overwhelmingly white. Perfect fundie territory, is all I'm saying.

[19 cats and counting]

1 minute ago, refugee said:

Has there ever been a study done, where they estimated how many pairings someone might go through before finding an actual life mate?

That I am not sure.  However, sometimes your first love does last.  My parents started dating when they were 12/13 and are happily married at 65/66.  My sister also married her first love and it seems to be working out.  I'm considered a Taylor Swift in my family for having seen multiple guys (not at the rate she does though).  

I'm not saying it can work out, but often it does not.  Had I married my first boyfriend, we would have long been divorced by now (he was very homophobic and used the term gay as an insult all the time-- but this was also the 90s).

[hoipolloi]

8 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

That I am not sure.  However, sometimes your first love does last.  My parents started dating when they were 12/13 and are happily married at 65/66.  My sister also married her first love and it seems to be working out.

A corollary phenomenon is the one of high school or college sweethearts reuniting after decades apart, often while married to other people. After the death of or divorce from the prior spouses, they end up together after all.

[19 cats and counting]

7 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

A corollary phenomenon is the one of high school or college sweethearts reuniting after decades apart, often while married to other people. After the death of or divorce from the prior spouses, they end up together after all.

This is what happened with my grandfather.  He met a woman in 1962.   In 2004 they reconnected after her first spouse passed (he was divorced once and his second wife passed in 2000).  They married that year and it lasted until last year when he passed.

ETA my grandmother also reconnected with her high school sweetheart at a class reunion.  They never married, but remained together until his death two years later.

[ophelia]

On 9.6.2016 at 5:58 PM, usedbicycle said:

Oh wow, I just realized my mother-law-law lives exactly 35 miles from the church they're getting married in. I thought it was close but not this close. Western NC is a super hick and religious part of the country... My MIL lives alone and doesn't go to church, but she volunteers all the time with the VA and her town's food pantry. She recently broke her ankle and not a single person came to help out or bring a meal. When she asked her neighbor for help walking her dog, they said "Well isn't your Church family helping you out, honey?". A bunch of true Christian assholes. You couldn't pay me enough to live there.

But now I'm daydreaming of a plan to visit her for the weekend and check out the wedding crowd. 

 

I hope your MIL is feeling better. What a nasty thing to say and the "honey" at the end makes it even worse. I think it's great that your MIL spends her time volunteering.

@Mela99@HermioneSparrow The Morton rabbit hole is one of the deepest and most seductive ones you can find here on FJ. Have fun reading their blogs and get some alcohol of your choice to accompany you. You gonna need. And say goodbye to your social life for the weekend!

 

16 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

As a progressive Christian (Quaker), I tend to find myself dating more atheists and agnostics than other Christians because our values tend to be more in line. 

Quakers are really one of the most impressive branches of Christianity. And I can totally see why it is easier for you to be dating agnostics and atheist than other Christians. I tend to do the same thing although I often feel like something is missing. I like spirituality, but unfortunately I often met people that look down on me for saying I'm a Christian and that I read in the bible and pray.

 

[docmom]

My parents met at 11 and married at 22.  They're going strong 50+ years later.  But...they dated other people before they got married, they went away to separate universities, they had independent lives before they got married.  And so, they've never wondered what it would be like if they'd ended up with some one else.  I think this is my biggest issue with fundie marriages- they haven't had the chance to prove to themselves that they really are with "The One".  At least some of them must wonder what life would be like with some one else.

[HereticHick]

2 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

Yeah... I'm well familiar with Asheville and the awesome people it attracts, but it's an island. Support for Bernie among registered democrats says nothing about the percentage of democrats in the area.

The town my MIL lives in, your run-of-the mill rural town, has 3'800 hundred people and 91 churches. You don't make this shit up. We know a few odd bird-watchers, hikers, and hippies that own land around there. There are some cool breweries and artist communities. But on a whole this is Trump land central and overwhelmingly white. Perfect fundie territory, is all I'm saying.

Implying that all Christian churches are fundy is like saying all Muslims are radical.

I understand that WNC has over 30 breweries now, correct?

Love, your mixed-race WNC friend who is from a small town WEST of Asheville, yet is awesome. But I'm still not sharing my moonshine with you.

 

 

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

Y'all are depressing me.  I've had a dream of moving to WNC for nearly 30 years, but marriage, career, and now an elderly parent have prevented that.  I still have that dream, but the older I get the more I realize that I need to live around more like-minded people...people who are more accepting of my non-religiosity; and maybe the deep south isn't the place to do that.  I don't go to church (never have), will have no family at all, and if I'm laid up for some reason it sounds like I'd be SOL.  And what of my poor kitties!?    

[Elegant Mess]

   holy wall o' text, Batman! 

For those of you who made it through that story, you have my sincerest admiration.  I took one look at that color-coded text and said "buh bye"!  IMO, the color-coding makes it worse - couldn't they have just put Daniel's and Kathryn's names at the beginning of each paragraph instead?

[Pianokeeper]

10 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

A corollary phenomenon is the one of high school or college sweethearts reuniting after decades apart, often while married to other people. After the death of or divorce from the prior spouses, they end up together after all.

    Errrrr....  yup.  Can confirm.

[foreign fundie]

When you first fall in love, that is the silliest time in your life. Now these fundie families barely allow internet and social media in order to protect their kids. Fine. But then, when their kids start courting and are all high on hormones and rosy future visions, they get social media so they can expose all their absurd spiritualised sex-fearing silliness for all the world to rofl about. PARENTS, THIS IS WHEN YOUR KIDS NEED PROTECTING. And yes, I am so happy I got married before social media. One less thing to be embarresed about.

[Jana814]

My old choir teacher's daughter is getting married today (she's 21 & still has a year of college left). I dont think it was a courtship although she goes to a bible college. He's been posting pictures & updates non-stop all week. 

They are somewhat religious although their kids went to/go to public schools. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

On June 9, 2016 at 9:06 PM, Mela99 said:

You can't. I equate it to young people with their very first relationship. It's exciting and new and amazing, and a lot of fundies seem to fall immediately into that soulmate-forever-bestest-boyfriend-star-crossed mindset. Makes me think of my cousin on Facebook. She got her first boyfriend at 19 and it was immediate OMG SOULMATE billions of hearts and stars. Couldn't go thirty seconds on Facebook without sharing their love.  But then she found out he was a 19 year old male  And she got a new soulmate and they've been together for six months but they're totally going to get married and be together forever, which is PROVEN by the number of engagement ring, princess, and church emojis after every sentence. That never ends well. If you're not grown up enough to drive a car, pay your own bills, etc., you're not grown up enough to make any other major life decision. 

I think part of it is insecurity and I think part of it is immaturity. Most of us grow out of that and find the person who grows with us but these people aren't given that opportunity. By the time the shock and novelty wears off, they're stuck. Forever. 

I was like that with my first BF. I rarely expressed it out loud to other people because I thought that it sounded sappy but on the inside I was all rainbows, hearts, and perfect soulmate love. Barf. I'm so embarrassed of my diaries of that time. I might burn them.

[Grimalkin]

On June 9, 2016 at 7:34 PM, nickelodeon said:

There's totally a discussion to be had about how fundie men (ATI princes especially) demand that their wives be gorgeous while barely grooming their own melted crayon-looking asses.

But this guy ain't THAT ugly. The kid can't help that his mom dresses him like a mailman. He could make it to second base at any keg party in my tricounty area.

         I prefer not to make negative comments on a person's looks. I don't think he is ugly either and I don't think she is gorgeous not calling her ugly mind you . There are a few people on my FB feed who post all sorts of pictures of themselves that barely resemble what they look like in real life. Filters and makeup and editing can make a huge difference. I get a bit suspicious of pictures these days. 

[princessmahina]

On 6/10/2016 at 4:52 PM, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

Y'all are depressing me.  I've had a dream of moving to WNC for nearly 30 years, but marriage, career, and now an elderly parent have prevented that.  I still have that dream, but the older I get the more I realize that I need to live around more like-minded people...people who are more accepting of my non-religiosity; and maybe the deep south isn't the place to do that.  I don't go to church (never have), will have no family at all, and if I'm laid up for some reason it sounds like I'd be SOL.  And what of my poor kitties!?    

I think it depends on where you go in the south, if you're really determined to live here. Huntsville, Alabama, for instance, has a number of people who eschew religion and people don't really look askance at them. Possibly because most people aren't really from around here, and that's a boatload of scientists/engineers. You'd probably do alright in any city of reasonable size. 

[Kak]

4 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

         I prefer not to make negative comments on a person's looks. I don't think he is ugly either and I don't think she is gorgeous not calling her ugly mind you . 

I so agree with this. There is so much to snark on that these people choose to do. 

[RosyDaisy]

I think it depends on where you go in the south, if you're really determined to live here. Huntsville, Alabama, for instance, has a number of people who eschew religion and people don't really look askance at them. Possibly because most people aren't really from around here, and that's a boatload of scientists/engineers. You'd probably do alright in any city of reasonable size. 

I second Huntsville, Alabama. My husband's family is from there. It's a nice oasis of liberal. Good jobs, nice neighborhoods, good public and private schools, nice restaurants, places to shop, great medical facilities, entertainment, etc.

[acheronbeach]

I hope he buys a suit that fits for his wedding.  The one he wore in the engagement photos  was horrible - like a kid paying dress up in his dad's clothes. 

[psycho-hope]

I sent my fiance a link to this thread earlier in the week and his exact words were ' both those fathers need a slap across the head and to be asked wtf are you ejjits playing at', hes just messaged me in the last hour to say his pastor mentioned during the service that his wife was browsing some blogs she likes during the week and came across the story of a young couple and their courtship, J picked up straight away that it was the daniel and Kathryn saga, the pastor then went on to say while he is all on for people being careful about their choice in life partner , that some people twist the bible to suit themselves and that how on earth can you expect to raise responsible adults if you cant even trust them to have a private conversation with their husband or wife to be

[CatNap]

On 6/10/2016 at 0:51 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm the one who brought up that Kathryn is out of Daniel's league a few pages back. I prefaced that I wasn't proud of my comment but it's true. You can look at studies. People tend to marry people who similar in attractiveness. Kathryn is stunning. Daniel is very average looking. I also get the sense through looking at pictures that he is a little awkward while she is not. Like I said earlier in the thread, if they met at a college keg party, she wouldn't give him the time of day. I stand by that even if I was just making a joke. They just really look like a mismatch.

I agree with both of you 

CyborgKin, I’m not implying that average looking people or unattractive people can’t or shouldn’t date people who are more attractive. I’m an average looking person and I’m married to someone who is, in my opinion, better looking than me. And yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

My point is that realistically, like JermajestyDuggar said, if they met at a college keg party, the Neely sisters wouldn't give the guys they’re engaged/married to the time of day. They would have probably been surrounded by a variety of guys and they would have had the freedom to choose and date whomever they found attractive. But since they are fundies, they can’t. They are stuck at home being passive and waiting for whomever their dad likes and approves and in most cases this person will be the one they will end up marrying. They can’t choose. They certainly can’t go to their dad and say: “Daddy, I know this guy you want to give my heart to is godly and all, but I’m just not attracted to him”. The pressure to marry the first guy that comes along and is approved by dad is huge (especially if the families are close), as well as the pressure to marry young and have a big family (but then all fundy girls WANT to, right?). They can’t afford to wait for someone THEY actually find attractive (physically or otherwise), or they might remain SAHDs (read: spinster slaves) forever. The fundy guys, however, have a lot more freedom in this aspect. They see a pretty fundy girl, they confuse hornyness with divine intervention, they go to the girl’s dad, pass his test, and it’s basically a done deal.

[louisa05]

10 minutes ago, CatNap said:

I agree with both of you 

CyborgKin, I’m not implying that average looking people or unattractive people can’t or shouldn’t date people who are more attractive. I’m an average looking person and I’m married to someone who is, in my opinion, better looking than me. And yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

My point is that realistically, like JermajestyDuggar said, if they met at a college keg party, the Neely sisters wouldn't give the guys they’re engaged/married to the time of day. They would have probably been surrounded by a variety of guys and they would have had the freedom to choose and date whoever they found attractive. But since they are fundies, they can’t. They are stuck at home being passive and waiting for whomever their dad likes and approves and in most cases this person will be the one they will end up marrying. They can’t choose. They certainly can’t go to their dad and say: “Daddy, I know this guy you want to give my heart to is godly and all, but I’m just not attracted to him”. The pressure to marry the first guy that comes along and is approved by dad is huge (especially if the families are close), as well as the pressure to marry young and have a big family (but then all fundy girls WANT to, right?). They can’t afford to wait for someone THEY actually find attractive (physically or otherwise), or they might remain SAHDs (read: spinster slaves) forever. The fundy guys, however, have a lot more freedom in this aspect. They see a pretty fundy girl, they confuse hornyness with divine intervention, they go to the girl’s dad, pass his test, and it’s basically a done deal.

 

They can't even allow themselves to think about whether they are physically attracted to anyone in the first place. Not even the guy daddy presents as the one they are to marry. 

That mindset even invaded a lot of evangelical churches that allow dating. Years ago, shortly before her wedding, a friend confessed to me that she had been struggling with being very physically attracted to her fiancee. I think she chose me because I was her one friend who grew up without the crazy evangelical teachings. I told her that if she wasn't attracted to him, she shouldn't be marrying him. But she had been taught that she should not have those thoughts or feelings until after the wedding. 

[mallallory]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

They can't even allow themselves to think about whether they are physically attracted to anyone in the first place. Not even the guy daddy presents as the one they are to marry. 

That mindset even invaded a lot of evangelical churches that allow dating. Years ago, shortly before her wedding, a friend confessed to me that she had been struggling with being very physically attracted to her fiancee. I think she chose me because I was her one friend who grew up without the crazy evangelical teachings. I told her that if she wasn't attracted to him, she shouldn't be marrying him. But she had been taught that she should not have those thoughts or feelings until after the wedding. 

That's so sad.  I had thought that in these circles being attracted to your future spouse would be quietly, privately considered a bonus.  I didn't realize it would be looked down upon entirely. 

Is your friend happy in her marriage?

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, CatNap said:

I agree with both of you 

CyborgKin, I’m not implying that average looking people or unattractive people can’t or shouldn’t date people who are more attractive. I’m an average looking person and I’m married to someone who is, in my opinion, better looking than me. And yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

My point is that realistically, like JermajestyDuggar said, if they met at a college keg party, the Neely sisters wouldn't give the guys they’re engaged/married to the time of day. They would have probably been surrounded by a variety of guys and they would have had the freedom to choose and date whomever they found attractive. But since they are fundies, they can’t. They are stuck at home being passive and waiting for whomever their dad likes and approves and in most cases this person will be the one they will end up marrying. They can’t choose. They certainly can’t go to their dad and say: “Daddy, I know this guy you want to give my heart to is godly and all, but I’m just not attracted to him”. The pressure to marry the first guy that comes along and is approved by dad is huge (especially if the families are close), as well as the pressure to marry young and have a big family (but then all fundy girls WANT to, right?). They can’t afford to wait for someone THEY actually find attractive (physically or otherwise), or they might remain SAHDs (read: spinster slaves) forever. The fundy guys, however, have a lot more freedom in this aspect. They see a pretty fundy girl, they confuse hornyness with divine intervention, they go to the girl’s dad, pass his test, and it’s basically a done deal.

Yep that's what I'm talking about. Since the guy always has to make the first move, he can pick a girl he's attracted to. And of course it's usually a beautiful girl (like Kathryn) but who knows if she's attracted to him? 

Maybe that was Sarah Reiths issue with Zack?