Josh - back to selling used cars in plain sight -Part 17

[OnceUponATime]

Continuing on from here:

Josh has been seen, photographed and is back to selling cars.

According to the Duggar's released statement, Josh and Anna are working with a "professional marriage and family counselor".

[FloraKitty35]

28 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

"professional marriage and family counselor".

Nice spin, but I doubt it, since any reputable counselor (even most Christian ones) might do something to lead Josh & Anna down the road to questioning the repressive and destructive lifestyle that were both born & raised in.

[nst]

According to pickles - the counselor for them is IBLP Chris Hogan who went with Ma and Pa Duggar to Puerto Rico

[PsyD2013]

Chris Hogan is so qualified - not - to be a marriage counselor.  His degree is  a BBA from  the University of Illinois Springfield.  From his Linkedin- "Chris helps men course correct and reconnect with their wives as a marriage coach, equips father's to understand the heart of their children and discover their niche in life."    

 

[nst]

10 minutes ago, PsyD2013 said:

Chris Hogan is so qualified - not - to be a marriage counselor.  His degree is  a BBA from  the University of Illinois Springfield.  From his Linkedin- "Chris helps men course correct and reconnect with their wives as a marriage coach, equips father's to understand the heart of their children and discover their niche in life."    

 

don't we all remember if this is the same guy who was on the original show for Ma and Pa Duggar and he made them use some long spear

Anna could spear Josh's privates

sounds good to me 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, nst said:

don't we all remember if this is the same guy who was on the original show for Ma and Pa Duggar and he made them use some long spear

Anna could spear Josh's privates

sounds good to me 

IIRC, JB was supposed to walk towards Hogan with a long strand of rebar pressed against their throats.  Boob chickened out (a rare smart move.)  Michelle wasn't involved with that exercise and no one at the time could figure out the point of it, but it was one of the more surreal moments of the series.

[withaj]

24 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

IIRC, JB was supposed to walk towards Hogan with a long strand of rebar pressed against their throats.  Boob chickened out (a rare smart move.)  Michelle wasn't involved with that exercise and no one at the time could figure out the point of it, but it was one of the more surreal moments of the series.

Jumping Jehoshaphat. That is nuts.

[2manyKidzzz]

I don't understand why they need counseling. I thought it was all Anna's fault anyway. 

[BabyBottlePop]

6 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I don't understand why they need counseling. I thought it was all Anna's fault anyway. 

Maybe they're not doing counseling at all and just telling the public they are in an attempt to appear "normal" or so that people "forget" how their initial rhetoric did (and still does, behind the scenes) blame Anna.

[JesusCampSongs]

3 hours ago, PsyD2013 said:

Chris Hogan is so qualified - not - to be a marriage counselor.  His degree is  a BBA from  the University of Illinois Springfield.  From his Linkedin- "Chris helps men course correct and reconnect with their wives as a marriage coach, equips father's to understand the heart of their children and discover their niche in life."    

 

"Marriage coach," seriously?!

The lengths to which these charlatans will go to circumvent title protection laws would be hilarious were it not for the damage they're doing. You'd think that with all the fake therapists, fake midwives, and fake doctors fundies use, they'd be dying off apace...

[Toaster]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

IIRC, JB was supposed to walk towards Hogan with a long strand of rebar pressed against their throats.  Boob chickened out (a rare smart move.)  Michelle wasn't involved with that exercise and no one at the time could figure out the point of it, but it was one of the more surreal moments of the series.

Wait, what?! How is this a thing? I had to look this up, because wow.

Via the Google and Hollywood life: http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/04/30/19-kids-and-counting-recap-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-marriage-retreat/ :

"It seems the biggest issue Michelle wants to work on in their relationship is making sure Jim Bob actually listens and pays attention to her. They each perform trust exercises one-on-one with the counselor individually as well as couples chat sessions. Jim Bob does a bending rebar exercise, and learns that letting go of fear — as in letting go of the fear that the bar will impale your throat and kill you — is similar to moving forward in a relationship."

The FUCK?

[withaj]

Can I just say... THERAPY SHOULD NOT INVOLVE REBAR.

[sillysally314]

if this is chris hogan, i beg that we ask kevin nealon to play him in the inevitable lifetime movie.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I don't understand why they need counseling. I thought it was all Anna's fault anyway. 

We keep saying that they blame Anna, but that has never been what the Duggars or any other fundie who has spoken up has said.  Even when Michelle was posting wifely advice about being available, there was never a suggestion that Anna was the one "really" to blame.  It is Josh that the family ihas bee furious at, not Anna.   

We are oversimplifying the attitude that the IBPL/Gothard folks take to male sexual sin and women's responsibility.  They are far from giving Josh a free pass and dumping all the blame on Anna.  As I "read" their beliefs, they hold Josh responsible for the sin, for the betrayal, for the evil sexual transgressions, etc.. They understand that Josh is the one with the Big Problem.

Where Anna is held responsible is that she (according to her own statement shortly after AM) was not sufficiently aware of his problems and therefore failed to help him resist temptation and/or turn away from sin sooner.  "Sexual availability" and making herself attractive, etc. are part of what supposedly would have/could have helped.  However, she is made responsible for helping/not helping.  They are not letting Josh off the hook about the sin. 

IMHO, they are making Anna way more responsible than she really is. But that is not the same as putting all the blame on her.

And I will say that conventional, (non-fundy) family or couples counseling, often takes the view that the problems are shared.  That is the whole point of couples counseling.

The problem is that these Gothardites see everything as being about making life better for men, who, after all, are the ones closest to God.  So, naturally they will put more burden on Anna than she deserves.  Instead of acknowledging that Josh has problems bigger than Anna could help with, and recognizing that Josh's selfishness and lack of love for Anna are his responsibility, they make it all about saving Josh and saving the marriage instead of addressing what Anna may need as an individual.

That is not the same as blaming her for everything, but probably no easier on her than if they did.

[2manyKidzzz]

@EmCatlyn. If you get my point, they are horribly misogynistic and do blame women. They are a cult. Not nice attitudes, controlling, blaming women, putting men at the lead of everything. Not unlike most misogynistic, fundamentalist religions, just more extreme. That is why Free Jinger exists. 

[CrazyCatLady]

I'm a therapist. I've never used rebar in a session. I'm obviously doing it wrong

[anne.stults]

46 minutes ago, withaj said:

Can I just say... THERAPY SHOULD NOT INVOLVE REBAR.

Maybe this is the rod that is used for the adults versus the PVC pipe for the little ones.  So their therapy is just an adult form of the Pearls "training" methods.

[EmCatlyn]

16 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

@EmCatlyn. If you get my point, they are horribly misogynistic and do blame women. They are a cult. Not nice attitudes, controlling, blaming women, putting men at the lead of everything. Not unlike most misogynistic, fundamentalist religions, just more extreme. That is why Free Jinger exists. 

I understand that.  What I am saying is that it seems more complex than "they blame Anna."  

As you say, the cult is misogynistic and they do indeed see women (in the abstract) as being to blame for  everything that goes wrong in the lives of men.  But they do also recognize that men have responsibility.  That is why Josh (not Anna) was sent to fundie rehab.

Satan came after Josh and Josh didn't resist properly. The sin and the repentance are Josh's. It is Josh and Josh's needs that matter.  

Anna is just a weak foolish woman who didn't help her husband when she could have.  She shares the blame with all womankind, the porn actresses, the women with whom he slept, the women who "defrauded" him and tempted him to porn and strip clubs--they are all part of the picture.  Josh was tempted and seduced and let down by women, but Anna alone isn't to blame.  That would give her too much importance.  (I derive this reading from extensive knowledge of how misogynist Christianity manifests itself in the 19th century.)

So we are in agreement about the misogyny and we don't disagree that Anna is made responsible for Josh's problems. I just wanted to suggest that there are issues and nuances involved that the bare statement. "they blame Anna," seem to oversimplify.

Free Jinger is a great place to explore these nuances, it seems to me.   

[Carol]

1 hour ago, CrazyCatLady said:

I'm a therapist. I've never used rebar in a session. I'm obviously doing it wrong

Well, I won't be sending anybody to you.  Rebar therapy is well known, well established theraputic tool used in the counseling field.  Used to straighten backs, straighten thinking, strengthen minds, strengthen hearts, etc. 

Rebarity...it works.  Or, you die.

[2manyKidzzz]

They can send Joshley to all the holy rehab they want. They think of women as second class and bottom line Anna wasn't submissive enough and Meechelle made some horrible comments to that end. Anna can probably get Mack to go ahead and make sandwiches and free Anna up. Praise the Lord, lol.

[Drala]

1 hour ago, CrazyCatLady said:

I'm a therapist. I've never used rebar in a session. I'm obviously doing it wrong

I use rebar as a diagnostic indicator.  When I start to visualize myself wrapping rebar around a client's neck, I feel fairly confident there are trauma issues that need to be addressed. 

[fraurosena]

4 hours ago, withaj said:

Can I just say... THERAPY SHOULD NOT INVOLVE REBAR.

And parenting should not involve plumbing line...

I confess I prefer seeing Boob impaled with rebar!

[nst]

that beautiful lawn of the pool house/dented fridge/vanessa's house - is getting the brunt of Josh's newest job 

stupid ass man Josh 

[JenniferJuniper]

4 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

 

So we are in agreement about the misogyny and we don't disagree that Anna is made responsible for Josh's problems. I just wanted to suggest that there are issues and nuances involved that the bare statement. "they blame Anna," seem to oversimplify.

 

I don't think we have any way of knowing how much they blame Anna.  I think everyone in the family - especially his oldest sisters - know what a dirtbag is he.   And I of course they all know his behavior was wrong.

But I think it's fair to say his parents were hoping/praying/expecting that marrying off Josh as quickly as they could would solve his problems, which they probably - simplistically - thought could be chocked up to him being oversexed.  Worked for Jim Bob and Michelle after all. Michelle was always ready, willing and able 24/7, Jim Bob is still interested in her and - as far as anyone knows - only her.

Of course, just because it worked for his parents, didn't mean it was going to work out for Josh and whatever fundie bride they matched him up with.  Jim Bob and Michelle were fortunate in that they were allowed to actually choose each other.  Josh N' Anna was essentially an arranged marriage.  JB and Michelle were also married nearly four whole years before Josh came along.  Lots of time to figure who they were as individuals and as a couple.  Josh and Anna started baby making right away with their first born coming little more than a year after the marriage.

But I really do believe at least Jim Bob and Michelle think Anna failed Josh in some fundamental way or ways.  Why?  Simply because they are both simple-minded enough to think what worked for them should have worked for their son - if only Anna had been more like Michelle.  And as others have said, their cult basically blames women for everything men do wrong. 

How much blame they put on Josh vs Anna - who knows?  But I can't imagine his parents don't blame her at least in part, and given how they were raised it's possible some of his siblings (Jill?) feel the same way. 

[Jana814]

After the scandal about Josh came out I realized why they married him off so quickly and young. They probably thought he's normal & now married to a lovely girl.