Leavenworth, Kansas Family Integrated Church

[Jana814]

I had a big issue when they wrote that the girls got baptized.  I can't help but they were forced to by either their father or mother. 

[Coconut Flan]

51 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

How old are Abby and Bethany?  They don't appear to be at the age of reason yet.  What is the difference between baptizing a little kid (below the age of reason) and infant baptism anyway?

Play ask a Catholic or Eastern Orthodox and they'll tell you it's no difference.  Up until age 7 or so, it's the parents and godparents making the decision and promises for the child in those churches.  It's all considered  the same thing.  After age 7 then the child has to go to classes and be judged to know what they are doing and have understanding and verified comprehension and not just of a simplistic sinner's prayer, but of basically a survey of historically held Christian beliefs. 

I'll tell a short story.  A young woman I know was hounded to go to a local megachurch.  She went out of curiosity.  Her report was wow their understanding of church and faith is so shallow.  They're on a first communion or less level of understanding.  She wasn't saying everyone there was shallow, but that the gospel that is preached at that particular church is extremely basic and simplified.

[Naga Viper]

On May 31, 2016 at 11:53 PM, Leila25 said:

I did encounter a maxwell one time. Teri was shopping in the produce section of the local Dillon's (Kroger).   Our eyes met for a split second and I looked away.   I did notice she wore Apple earbuds during the shopping trip as I saw her again when I was checking out.  

Man. If I encountered Teri at the supermarket, I'd like to think I'd have the wherewithal to make eye contact, smile sweetly...and then load a shit-ton of Pepsi products into my cart.

[MamaJunebug]

On May 31, 2016 at 2:40 PM, kpmom said:

Now is this different from their "church" that they link to on their web site? : http://www.titus2.com/families-for-Jesus-fellowship.html

Also, I notice on the one on their web site they talk about other families joining them (in addition to "the elderly")

And Steve lists himself as pastor (with what training?) and Teri as the pastor's wife.  That's fairly recent I believe.  So, it looks like Steve is building his own little church fiefdom now that his traveling shows are drying up.

Well, sure -- otherwise how would Teri be able to go to the ladeeze conference in Indiana at the reduced $39 rate for "senior pastors' wives"??

[MamaJunebug]

10 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

How old are Abby and Bethany?  They don't appear to be at the age of reason yet.  What is the difference between baptizing a little kid (below the age of reason) and infant baptism anyway?

Cradle Lutheran here: the only difference in our tradition would be that the child could understand the words, "Today God is making you part of His family."  

In the Maxwell tradition, the child is the active party, deciding that she wants to be part of God's family (or being told to say that this is what she wants).

The foundational differences between traditional (Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Episcopal, etc.) infant baptism, and age-of-accountability baptism, is that in one, God acts to bring a person into the faith; in the other, the person acts to make that decision. 

I really don't have a dog in the fight and won't discuss it further, but I certainly see where Steve and Teri enjoy the idea that again, THEY are in charge of what their children and even grandchildren decide and believe. 

[bertnee]

7 hours ago, EscapedCardinal said:

Man. If I encountered Teri at the supermarket, I'd like to think I'd have the wherewithal to make eye contact, smile sweetly...and then load a shit-ton of Pepsi products into my cart.

Sinner!!!!! Put those idols back.

[SPHASH]

8 hours ago, EscapedCardinal said:

Man. If I encountered Teri at the supermarket, I'd like to think I'd have the wherewithal to make eye contact, smile sweetly...and then load a shit-ton of Pepsi products into my cart.

And a box of animal crackers too.

[Rosie]

On 5/30/2016 at 1:55 AM, laPapessaGiovanna said:

What does this mean? 

So Maxwellian.

It is reminiscent of the random English you see on e.g. restaurant menus and in tourism brochures written with the use of a dictionary, or maybe middle school-level English classes.

"We’re so glad you’ve stopped by. Whether you found us through a search engine or a friend, we take seriously your time."

SMH

[CyborgKin]

4 hours ago, SPHASH said:

And a box of animal crackers too.

And the kind of cheese slices that have paper.

 

"Dad and the dads" would be an amusing name for a band.

[Justme]

13 hours ago, EscapedCardinal said:

Man. If I encountered Teri at the supermarket, I'd like to think I'd have the wherewithal to make eye contact, smile sweetly...and then load a shit-ton of Pepsi products into my cart.

I think I'd buy a 12 pack of pepsi, put it in a paper bag. Then casually "bump" into her in the parking lot. Hand her the bag and say "the Lord laid it on my heart to bless you with this," then quickly leave before she had a chance to open her mouth.

[Avalondaughter]

13 hours ago, Justme said:

I think I'd buy a 12 pack of pepsi, put it in a paper bag. Then casually "bump" into her in the parking lot. Hand her the bag and say "the Lord laid it on my heart to bless you with this," then quickly leave before she had a chance to open her mouth.

Or how about slipping in a few of those big Trader Joe's beef burritos?

[Palimpsest]

On 6/1/2016 at 0:09 PM, IReallyAmHopewell said:

This was a Vision Forum movement--Family Integrated Church. No age separation .It's a code for Gothard types to find welcoming churches.

I thought it was more parallel development.  The Family Integrated concept predates Vision Forum by years.  Vision Forum and DPIAT were definitely in at the beginning of the NCFIC, but Scott Brown dominated.  It's all a bit incestuous with the usual suspects turning up on the BoDs of both organizations.

From the NCFIC FAQ: 

"During the week of 9-11 (2001), a gathering of about three dozen pastors, elders and church leaders from across America met with Vision Forum Ministries in San Antonio for the first ever ”Summit on Uniting Church and Family.” At issue was the necessity of encouraging a reformation (and praying for a revival) concerning the relationship of the family to the local church. The outcome of that summit was the National Center for Family-Integrated Churches." 

https://ncfic.org/about/frequently_asked_questions_about_the_ncfic/

[laPapessaGiovanna]

20 hours ago, Rosie said:

It is reminiscent of the random English you see on e.g. restaurant menus and in tourism brochures written with the use of a dictionary, or maybe middle school-level English classes.

"We’re so glad you’ve stopped by. Whether you found us through a search engine or a friend, we take seriously your time."

SMH

Honestly my issue was less with the writing quality and more with the stupid meaning. 

In my mind I paraphrased it like this:

"We're so glad we got some traffic on our website. We know there's no content yet and so we wonder how you found it. And we value your time a lot but unfortunately not enough to actually use some of our to put some content for you to read. Seriously. For real I tell you. But keep coming ok?"

[sparkles]

They've updated the website a bit although there's still not much info. They're at Twin Oaks Retirement Community, which, IIRC, is the same place they held services before.  Weird that they'd start a website for it all of a sudden.

[Manda]

People have talked about the Maxwells needing money and they probably don't get a collection or much of one from the residents.  Maybe they're hoping to pull in some contributing members or maybe to get enough outside membership to be able to rent a facility and perhaps some left over to augment their income.

[Grimalkin]

       I think Steve has been spending all his time in assisted living places honing his Jedi mind trick skills on the elderly. He must feel he is ready to test it out on the public.

 

@Manda I will say they get no collection from the residents and I am sure it would not be allowed. Staff are not allowed to take any tips offers, and extra services like haircuts and dog walking are billed to an account because it's too easy to take advantage of the residents, and it would be easy for a resident to forget they paid for something and then accuse a staff member of stealing. It is safer for everybody that way. 

       I am not as well versed in Mawellology as many of you but I don't see Steve as someone who would fleece the elderly. He seems more ego driven. Interested in what others think though.

[bertnee]

Maybe he's going for sponsorships a la John Schrader?

[slickcat79]

On 5/31/2016 at 3:40 PM, kpmom said:

And Steve lists himself as pastor (with what training?) and Teri as the pastor's wife.  That's fairly recent I believe.  So, it looks like Steve is building his own little church fiefdom now that his traveling shows are drying up.

And yet, from the Statement of Faith:

That the autonomous local church should be organized with only qualified leadership (Hebrews 13:7, 17)

[sparkles]

I'm probably in the minority here but I don't think the Maxwells are hurting for money. Steve may be many things but he's not stupid. I'd lay odds that he got some kind of settlement when he was "called home," plus he probably had some kind of pension or 401K. I would imagine that he, along with other members of the family, have investments with the "right kind" of Christian businesses. Their houses have always been mortgage-free, they pay cash for everything, they're in an area with a reasonable cost of living and they have few expenses. (Repairs to Uriah were probably their biggest expense but he's gone to great bus depot in the sky.) They're frugal, but they're not cheap. They seem to buy top-of-the-line quality, which means these purchases last. The conferences have wound down, yes, but I think that's more out of necessity (although attendance did seem to decline somewhat) than anything else. It was a natural thing as the kids aged out it and were no longer around to do the hauling. The adults, well, the males anyway, are now working full time and the women are doing whatever they hell they do, although they must be bored as fuck. I think boredom is what drives this church thing. Just something else to fill their time. If they were struggling financially, I think they'd be pushing the hell out of some new business. This ain't it.

[kpmom]

@sparkles I'm in the minority with you.

The Maxwells don't have debt, they don't spend money on entertainment, and how much could khaki pants and polo shirts cost?

I really believe they are one of the fundie families that actually might have a good amount of money. 

In their traveling show days I think they sold quite a bit of their books, not to mention the love offerings.

And who knows, maybe Swift Otter is doing pretty well.  Joseph, with his speaking engagements, seems to have an understanding of networking.

As you say, Steve likely has a 401(k) account, and Teri might have a non-working spouse IRA.  I believe Steve is either at or close to full retirement age in order to collect his full amount of social security.

With the three oldest sons able to come up with money to buy houses debt free, I think they know how to save and be careful with money.

[enigmata]

Do you think this is just a ploy to get a discount at the event that Teri is meant to be attending later in the year - didn't that say that you got it a lot cheaper if you were a pastor's wife.

I think you had to provide website details for your Church (IIRC) to be able to claim the discount.

Just looked back and on April 18th @Palimpsest wrote (on the last thread)

All you need to register as a Senior Pastor's wife is the name of your church and the website. I'm sure Teri qualifies for the discount.

Maybe just me being totally cynical.....

 

 

[Henri205]

On 6/3/2016 at 7:04 AM, Avalondaughter said:

Or how about slipping in a few of those big Trader Joe's beef burritos?

A box of condoms?

[Grimalkin]

       Do you guys see Steve as a grifter? He doesn't see to mind working for his money. I don't see him taking advantage of people, getting caught up in a sex scandal with an minor, on in a compromising posisition with a porn star. I would be stunned if that were the case. I hi k he believes his brand, and sincerely thinks he is serving God. I think he really does have mental health issues. I am interested in other people's take on him.

[Granwych]

5 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

       Do you guys see Steve as a grifter? He doesn't see to mind working for his money. I don't see him taking advantage of people, getting caught up in a sex scandal with an minor, on in a compromising posisition with a porn star. I would be stunned if that were the case. I hi k he believes his brand, and sincerely thinks he is serving God. I think he really does have mental health issues. I am interested in other people's take on him.

I see Steve as a sanctimonious self-righteous jerk (sorry if I'm redundant here.)  He's tightfisted, though, gives away very little of any Maxwell product, refuses to offer any financing of any Maxwell product or intellectual property--hell, I rarely read of any Maxwell donating even time for any community service that would actually impact lives.  Helping with Habitat for Humanity? Nope.  Baking cookies for police officers(but having the police pick up those delicious bites of joy themselves) -yup.  I have seen the Christmas Child boxes, so I'll give them that.  Sex scandal?  He'd pass out if a female with two shirt buttons undone passed by.  He takes advantage of believers with his amazing, awesome font of knowledge, swaying them to his opinions with his all-encompassing  harping on death.  I do wonder what will come of Teri, the grown children, and the grandkids when Steve isn't around or able to shepherd them through this vale of tears.

[mango_fandango]

1 minute ago, Granwych said:

I see Steve as a sanctimonious self-righteous jerk (sorry if I'm redundant here.)  He's tightfisted, though, gives away very little of any Maxwell product, refuses to offer any financing of any Maxwell product or intellectual property--hell, I rarely read of any Maxwell donating even time for any community service that would actually impact lives.  Helping with Habitat for Humanity? Nope.  Baking cookies for police officers(but having the police pick up those delicious bites of joy themselves) -yup.  I have seen the Christmas Child boxes, so I'll give them that.  Sex scandal?  He'd pass out if a female with two shirt buttons undone passed by.  He takes advantage of believers with his amazing, awesome font of knowledge, swaying them to his opinions with his all-encompassing  harping on death.  I do wonder what will come of Teri, the grown children, and the grandkids when Steve isn't around or able to shepherd them through this vale of tears.

That last bit just reminds me of the title sequence song from Meaning of Life "For millions this life is a sad vale of tears!" with the following line "sitting round with rien, nothing to say!" Although, of course, the whole song is about *ahem* the meaning of life... "Is God really real? Or is there some doubt?" Steve would keel over just listening to it. And they would disapprove of that ending sequence in Heaven. (As well as the rest of it- organised sport, gluttony- even Every Sperm Is Sacred features dancing.)

The line above (sitting round...), though, is a perfect description of Maxwellian life.