2nd Gen Duggar/Bates birth comparison

[JesusCampSongs]

7 hours ago, silverspoons said:

I had to take thinners during my pregnancy (lovenox not heparin, but basically the same thing). No one limited pregnancies but it wasn't recommended. My son had a teacher that had 7 kids and she had clotting factor and  did the shots so I know it is possible but not the norm. I went to "the" high risk clinic in Utah to have my kids. Obviously the majority of women were LDS and wanted big families. The majority of the women I met that had to take heparin or lovenox decided not to have as many kids as they planned or wanted I would say an average was 3 and that includes the first kid that many did not know they would need thinners till something went wrong so it was not a full pregnancy of shots for baby #1. I don't know who this Christian doctor is that helps Kelly and Erin but he is dying breed. The high risk LDS doctors would not be happy to see someone coming back time and time again , getting pregnant on purpose and in the state of Utah for all the babies born, there are limited options for ob/gyn's and high risk is very limited to a handful of doctors in 2 practices so there is no doctor shopping like Michelle .

 

A lot of people on here seem to think that Dr. Vick is a fundie. I'm not entirely sure how true that is, though. He's my mom's doctor and delivered my little sister some thirty-odd years ago...and gave my mom a tubal immediately after, and she was 24 years old at the time. I used to see a different doctor in his old practice when I still lived in Knoxville, and they all prescribed birth control, inserted IUDs, and performed sterilizations in addition to delivering babies. So while there's a lot of YAY JESUS on his current website, I don't think that's the sum total of his views. 

That said, he is pretty old at this point!

ETA: Also, in the US, Lovenox is expensive AS FUCK. I did one of my internships in a hospital setting, and a huge amount of our charity pharmacy's money went towards providing that drug to indigent and low income ER users. I hope Cherin has actual insurance or the med clinic at whatever hospital they're using is really generous. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

On 5/29/2016 at 11:21 AM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

My kids are 27 months apart, we had our 1st was due 15 months after we got married (but was a month early) I was only 27, but my husband was 36 when we had our 1st, that is why we had them so quickly and so close together, He wanted to be done by the time he was 40 so we had them boom boom.  I thought mine were too close together until my sister had hers 17 months apart, but she was 36 when she had her 1st kid so SHE was old.  But we both stopped at two. I really wanted a 3rd eventually but hubby said he was to old so we stopped.  You talk about dealing with toddlers and babies at the same time.  Try having teenagers. My oldest graduated from high school yesterday and my youngest will do so in 2 years. The hormones the tempers it is a struggle, can you imagine having 19 of them  Granted they won't have the issues w/ friends or boyfriends/girlfriends that stuff, but somedays I cant wait until my daughter finishes school.  I long for a time where I come home to a quiet house, not needing to be anything other than just me, not mom, not running here or there, not cooking dinner cleaning up after kids. I can't imagine having to do this for 40 years.  They have already been doing it for 28 years and it will be another 12 years before Josie is 18. I'm exhausted after 18 years of doing this. 

Michelle and Kelly probably aren't exhausted because they produced a quiver full of warriors who take care of one another, leaving them to do next to nothing.

[sndral]

9 hours ago, devoe364 said:

She had 13 kids by the time she was 34 (my age). I can barely take care of myself, my cat and a couple of house plants. Of course she just about had a mental break down. I would have had a mental breakdown. I would have made the laundry room incident look small.

When I think of Michelle's break down, I can't help but think of Andrea Yates. 

Ah, but you take care of all of that, whereas Michelle's approach is to expect others to take care of her litter - why would Jebus bless her with all of those slaves (oops, daughters) if he didn't intend for them to spend their youth raising more arrows for JB's quiver?

[Melissa1977]

On 29/5/2016 at 2:45 PM, Karma said:

I'm two months younger than Michelle - 49.  Thank goodness for birth control, since both of my kids (now 19 & 16) were conceived the first month of trying.  I have had a Mirena for 5 years, so needed a blood test to see if I was near menopause or whether it will need replacing.  My GP said its just as well mr karma has had the snip, since my hormone levels indicate I'm still fertile. (If my eggs are not past their use by date!) Scary to think of how many kids I'd have had if I had been Quiverfull.

There would definitely have been laundry melt downs in my house with more than two!

My mom conceived 3 times at the first month of trying (sadly, one was a miscarriage). She just breastfeed for a few months so she had her period back almost inmediately. I'm the elder so I if my parents were quiverful I could have been a sistermom of 18 siblings, considering my mom married at 20 years old and had menopause at 45.

I also conceive very easily (one conceived at 27, the other at 36 when fertility is supposed to decrease). Both times I've breastfeed for a long time and my period has came back by my kids first birthday. So if I was quiverful I'd be having kids every other year, Zsu style.

 

[Karma]

Scarily, @Melissa1977 I had my period back at 6 weeks and at 4 months with my kids - who were both fully breastfed.  How close could my kids have been without contraception!  *shudders

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

Michelle and Kelly probably aren't exhausted because they produced a quiver full of warriors who take care of one another, leaving them to do next to nothing.

Exactly. Michelle and Kelly only parented the first set of kids, after that they just made babies. Michelle was the buddy for the babies,  but Kelly wasn't even that. She assigned buddies to her babies before they were born and combined with the harsh baby training Kelly used, I really doubt she was a typical mother. 

[devoe364]

7 hours ago, sndral said:

Ah, but you take care of all of that, whereas Michelle's approach is to expect others to take care of her litter - why would Jebus bless her with all of those slaves (oops, daughters) if he didn't intend for them to spend their youth raising more arrows for JB's quiver?

Well yes, I do try to remember to feed and water the cat at the very least. 

That said, I don't believe Michelle always expected others to take care of her kids. I think she tried to do it all herself and that is what led to her breakdown in the laundry room and the women from the community stepping in to help her so she didn't become an Andrea Yates. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think Michelle had the hardest time when she had 5 kids 5 and under. Because there weren't any real "helpers." The kids just weren't old enough yet to be second parents. 

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

My mom conceived 3 times at the first month of trying (sadly, one was a miscarriage). She just breastfeed for a few months so she had her period back almost inmediately. I'm the elder so I if my parents were quiverful I could have been a sistermom of 18 siblings, considering my mom married at 20 years old and had menopause at 45.

I think about this too with my mom. Throw a blanket on that woman and she's pregnant. All her babies over 10 lbs, delivered naturally in less than two hours. When she went in to get a pap smear at age 50 the doctor called another doctor in to look. They told her she had the uterus of a 15 year old.  Menopause didn't happen until 56.

Granted there are other factors related to getting pregnant, but I definitely would have been one of at least 15 kids. She probably would have given Michelle and Kelly a run for their money.

[RoseWilder]

On 5/27/2016 at 8:27 PM, crazysnark said:

It's not so much that I see the second baby close in age as being a sign of them towing the party line but the fact that she has been pregnant 5 freakin times in 2 years and suffered through 3 back to back miscarriages without saying "hey let's chill out a bit here"

I don't think the fact that they kept trying to get pregnant after the miscarriages is a sign that they're towing the party line. Lots of people continue to try to get pregnant after multiple miscarriages. I wouldn't even think that having two kids really close in age meant anything either, if Erin didn't have the blood clotting disorder. But since she does, I kind of want to slap them and yell, "What the hell is wrong with you two." 

I don't think we'll be able to know for sure which of the Bates children are towing the party line until several things happen 1) they get to kid 3 or 4 because lots of people have several kids really close together and then stop for good 2) their children are school aged and we see if they're going to an actual school or being home schooled (I really hope Whitney doesn't home school. The grammar she uses on her Instagram posts is not the grammar of a person who needs to be home schooling.)

I see signs in all of the Bates children that they are not living exactly as their parents did. And that does give me hope. But I don't think we'll know for sure how far reaching those changes are for a few years.

[Apricot]

I think Michelle would be gutted if one of her girls had more than 19 children and "beat" her.  Having said that, she'd prefer it to be one of her daughters than a Bates I guess.

[ljohnson2006]

J'Chelle would scream that from the mountain tops. 'My daughter had 20 kids. Take that Kelly Bates'
 

[Bad Wolf]

I wonder if it would be different if one of her sons had 20 kids.

[nausicaa]

32 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

(I really hope Whitney doesn't home school. The grammar she uses on her Instagram posts is not the grammar of a person who needs to be home schooling.)

Good God, yes. It's bad when the Bates Abeka upbringing outshines you. 

[19 cats and counting]

1 hour ago, Apricot said:

I think Michelle would be gutted if one of her girls had more than 19 children and "beat" her.  Having said that, she'd prefer it to be one of her daughters than a Bates I guess.

I think they'll prevent that by not approving suitors and keeping them single (Jana). 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, Apricot said:

I think Michelle would be gutted if one of her girls had more than 19 children and "beat" her.  Having said that, she'd prefer it to be one of her daughters than a Bates I guess.

Why?

Bates girls are more or less studying. Maybe they go to fundie colleges, but it's better than staying at home doing nothing. Plus Kelly helps them in courtships. 

I haven't seen a happy Duggar girl except maybe Jill (and Jessa but Jessa only after having her baby).

Not saying Bates are having a great life. But Duggars (Jana, Jinger, Joy, Johanna, even Jennifer) always look depressed to me, their smile don't reach their eyes.  And Jessa had always that bitchy look, not a happy/relaxed one, before she had the baby.

This said, ALL Bates and Duggars seem much more happy after mariage. 

[catlady]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I wonder if it would be different if one of her sons had 20 kids.

if one of them did, to Michelle it would be all about her son having 20, no matter that his wife carried and delivered them.

[fraurosena]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Michelle had the hardest time when she had 5 kids 5 and under. Because there weren't any real "helpers." The kids just weren't old enough yet to be second parents. 

They weren't old enough at seven or eight either. Didn't stop her pushing off her infants at them then though...

[formergothardite]

I would think that even the perpetually cheerful Bates would appear depressed if they had gone through what the Duggar kids did. The Bates always seem a bit too happy to be in the lifestyle to me.

I don't get why people think Michelle is more baby crazy than Kelly. Granted Michelle did at least be a buddy to the babies while Kelly shoved them off on children, but I don't think Michelle is so rabidly jealous that she is actively preventing her kids from getting married. It seems to me that both Michelle and Kelly would have done anything to have another baby, but are okay with the grandchildren as long as they aren't made to be responsible for them. Neither of them have wanted to bother with caring for babies/children in a very long time. 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I would think that even the perpetually cheerful Bates would appear depressed if they had gone through what the Duggar kids did. The Bates always seem a bit too happy to be in the lifestyle to me.

I don't get why people think Michelle is more baby crazy than Kelly. Granted Michelle did at least be a buddy to the babies while Kelly shoved them off on children, but I don't think Michelle is so rabidly jealous that she is actively preventing her kids from getting married. It seems to me that both Michelle and Kelly would have done anything to have another baby, but are okay with the grandchildren as long as they aren't made to be responsible for them. Neither of them have wanted to bother with caring for babies/children in a very long time. 

Well, Kelly seems confortable with her grandchildren, and was content with menopause. Michelle seems jealous or at least not relaxed in her grandkids births and was talking about trying for #20 despite her 5(?) C-sections and premiees and miscarriages. It's not normal to speak as if she was a young mother of a few kids.

[formergothardite]

Kelly had her kids crying out to God and holding prayer vigils in hopes of her getting pregnant. There is countless articles where Kelly says they would be happy to have #20(she wanted 10 boys and 10 girls) despite all the medical problems she had and despite having mulitple miscarriages and despite having no insurance and having had a baby in the NICU.

Michelle is awkward and not relaxed all the time in front of the camera, not just when her kids are giving birth. It just seems a bit on the BEC side to claim she is so jealous she is trying to keep her kids from getting married because she can't stand the idea of them having children. 

[Bad Wolf]

14 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Kelly had her kids crying out to God and holding prayer vigils in hopes of her getting pregnant.

I thought the idea was to leave the number of kids up to God, not badger Him because you've decided you know better. 

[formergothardite]

1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

I thought the idea was to leave the number of kids up to God, not badger Him because you've decided you know better. 

I think they did say that they would accept whatever God's answer was. And I really question that her kids wanted fast and pray so that they could have another kid to care for. Kelly is just as hungry for that #20 as Michelle, she is just smarter and learned when to stop saying that to the media. 

[Melissa1977]

@Apricot excuse me, I read too quick and I understood YOU'd prefer to be a Duggar than a Bates girl. That's what I answered in my reply.

[Wenny]

My Grandma had a change of life baby at 55 and mom still hasn't gone through Menopause at 60. The women in our family are late bloomers, I had my period by 17 and mom was 22 when she got hers. I was the same age as when Michelle had her first so in theory (if I was stupid and didn't care about being pre-e nearly killing me and little Wenny) I could have 20-25 kids. 

 

Oh Dog.