Micro Chips and Mark of the Beast

[molecule]

I've long thought that John doesn't understand what he wrote in Revelation a whole lot better than I do. He may have been given the images and words, and he dutifully recorded them--but that doesn't mean he truly understood. 

[myusername]

@Marshmallow World I know exactly what you're describing. I was raised the same way. We weren't home schooled, but we attended a small private school at our church... Which was basically the same. This was my normal life as well.

And then throw in a healthy dose of learning about demonic activities and exorcisms... And well, it's going to royally F up a kid.

Eta.... Apparently I don't know how to tag properly. 😕

[Marshmallow World]

5 hours ago, myusername said:

 

@Marshmallow World I know exactly what you're describing. I was raised the same way. We weren't home schooled, but we attended a small private school at our church... Which was basically the same. This was my normal life as well.

 

And then throw in a healthy dose of learning about demonic activities and exorcisms... And well, it's going to royally F up a kid.

Ah yes... demonic forces. They were present everywhere - especially in cartoons. Have you heard of a book called "Turmoil in the Toy Box"? I swear my mother read that more than the Bible. I chuckle about it now, but I was devastated as a little girl when I couldn't watch My Little Pony and the Care Bears because of the magic = demonic forces. Here's a couple of his quotes: 

Quote

"My Little Pony . . . Unicorns and winged horses, also known as a Pegasus, are derived from Greek and Roman mythology. . . . Because these toys are based on mythological creatures, they are occult. Mythology is in contradiction to God's Word. . . . The unicorn is a symbol of the anti-Christ, which the prophet Daniel described in his vision as the little horn which rises in the midst of the ten horns."

"In a sense, Care Bears offer a form of Humanistic psychology, designed to include love, involvement and spontaneity, with the goal of instilling personal growth and the achievement of full human potential. Putting it simply, Humanism teaches: we are God; there are no absolutes; and we control our own destiny."

And my favorite: "Satan is methodically teaching our youth that demons are real, but cute, friendly and helpful. Unknowingly, youngster will ally themselves with demons and become willing disciples and slaves of Satan."

By the way... your school sounds like the high school I attended (tiny private fundamentalist school attached to a fundamentalist church). Your school didn't happen to be in Nor Cal, would it?

ETA: Okay, one more quote: "Many parents have expressed concern that their children, after watching the 'He-Man' cartoons, go running throughout the house with plastic swords held aloft shouting, 'by the power of Grayskull, I have the power!' God's Word warns us that only by the blood of Jesus do humans have any power and authority over others. There is no mention of the power of Grayskull."

[Destiny]

@Marshmallow World and @myusername, are you my siblings? Your experience completely mirrors mine, especially that moment of panic when you encounter one of the "evil" things or when end times come up. I don't believe and haven't believed in years, but there's still that moment when teachings of a lifetime come back. 

It's interesting how much stock modern Christianity has put in the dreams of an old man who was trapped in isolation (wasn't he? He was in exile, yes?) and how much damage those dreams can do and have done. 

Edit: I just read mister destiny those quotes. He's still picking his jaw up off the floor. 

[THERetroGamerNY]

OMG! "Turmoil in the Toybox". Wow, did you ever bring sad memories back! That book is a handbook for how fundies can throw away happy toys and make kids cry.

It also had two follow-ups, because the first wasn't shitty enough.

[EyeQueue]

Jeez. How could anyone have taken those book covers seriously? They look so damned cheesy and idiotic.

[Destiny]

Oh they did @eyequeue. My parents read and believed these books. It still blows people's minds that I have never seen a lot of the cartoons and movies that were all the rage when I was a kid. Mister destiny just had to explain the power of greyskull thing to me. It still gets him how much I missed for silly reasons.

[Marshmallow World]

This is surreal/awesome that I have people to talk to who feel my childhood pain that this book caused!

I love you, FJ.

Spoiler

 

[THERetroGamerNY]

It has to be THE most hated book from my childhood! Fuck that book, and screw that author! The fun things that were taken from me and trashed because they were "satanic"!

Ugh!

[THERetroGamerNY]

Those sort of books were so rampant back then. TV is satanic. Toys are satanic. D&D is satanic. Music has backwards satanic messages...

This reminds me of this one lunatic that we actually somehow started following (in his books that is). Named Texe Marrs. He was popular in the late 80s with his anti New Age books that spread the joyous fear of how the 666 mark, evil New Agers, and other plots of terror were hiding around every corner.

I mean, according to him, the Mark of the Beast was hidden *everywhere*...

Then he suddenly came out with a book about the Illuminati and a lot of people kinda raised eyebrows and backed away from him.

And then it was revealed that he's anti-semitic. Spins crazy anti-Jew conspiracy theories. O_o

He rather lost a lot of his following after that, but he is very much still around!

Has 24/7 broadcasts of his ravings over at http://texemarrs.com

He also has an "internet church", which I guess is just a livestream of his weekly insanity at http://www.biblehomechurch.org

And, naturally, he has a conspiracy site at http://conspiracyworld.com

Here's some rather, uh, curious info from his old "Project LUCID" book which was supposedly his expose in how 666, biochips, and all the world's governments were going to conspire to take is all over. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_LUCID.htm

Still waiting for that to happen. Maybe it was defunded?

This jackass would make for one hell of a thread...

[CyborgKin]

I kinda remember some kind of spelling game called 'Spellbound' or the like, which a relative gifted us, but we weren't allowed to play because of the witchy theme.  I also remember being told off for watching some cousins play The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.  (Which is why I was careful when and where I played The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim.  Chock full of magic and such themes, no noticeable harm done to me.  Apart from wasted time, which I probably would have wasted regardless.)

[myusername]

By the way... your school sounds like the high school I attended (tiny private fundamentalist school attached to a fundamentalist church). Your school didn't happen to be in Nor Cal, would it?

No... I'm in the Midwest.

I remember that book. I'm sort of curious to read it again as an adult.

There are still triggers that send shivers of fear down my spine, even though I *know it's all nonsense. The brainwashing was/is powerful.

[smittykins]

I remember seeing Turmoil in the Toybox in my church's library.  ISTR a part where a young girl claimed she'd "learned to lie from Sesame Street," so no more Sesame Street. 

While we're kindasorta on the subject, does anyone remember "Why Knock Rock" by Dan and Steve Peters? I bought it on a whim from a Christian bookstore disputing my fundie-light teens.  To this day, I recall the four points you were supposed to judge music on: song lyrics, lifestyles of the artists, album graphics, and goals of the songs(for example, to glorify the Lord or to incite you to rebel against your parents.)

And the first thing I did was to check if the book said anything about my favorite band, Chicago(it didn't other than their original guitarist, Terry Kath, had killed himself, which I already knew).

[iweartanktops]

On 5/27/2016 at 4:47 PM, formergothardite said:

I have wondered if he was speaking in some sort of code that the people who received the letter would understand, while the rest of us don't. 

This makes the most sense to me. 

On 5/28/2016 at 8:36 AM, Curious said:

I would not mind some kind of chip that could be scanned (ONLY WHEN NECESSARY) that held my medical information.   When the first 1/2 hour of any new appointment is me going through my complex history for the nurse, then the dr again, I want to just slam my head into a wall.

If they could scan something and get all that info to save us all time, I'd totally be on board!

I agree! I see so many providers and specialists and fill out the same forms, etc. If I could be scanned rather than having the same conversation over and over, I'd be down. 

On 5/28/2016 at 0:02 PM, Marshmallow World said:

<snipped for space and added emphasis>

 The threat of the tribulation was a constant, looming presence in my life. 

The church we attended at that time was technically pre-tribulation but the eschatological Bible studies would often debate pre- and post-tribulation. I would sit there and just inwardly freak out. The tribulation sounded horrifying, to say the least. I remember lying in bed night after night feeling abject terror in my body - what if I wasn't a good enough Christian to be raptured? What if the rapture didn't come until after the tribulation? How would my family survive? Would I have to watch my little brothers starve to death, or be killed? Would I have to go to a guillotine because I would refuse to get the Mark of the Beast? Would I be brave enough to refuse the Mark? When the time came (and it was imminent) that I had to choose between accepting the Mark to stay alive knowing that I was doomed to hell for eternity or refusing and being led to my immediate death, what would I do? The Mark of the Beast was understood to be a microchip that they would put in your hand or your forehead (and no one in our theological circle questioned this interpretation). Every time there was a news story about ATMs, or a new microchip method, my mother would harp on and on about how the Antichrist was putting the wheels in motion to kill all Christians who refuse to take the Mark.

This kind of talk seems dramatic, but you have to understand this was my day-to-day life. Saying things like "We'll have spaghetti for dinner if Jesus doesn't return" was normal. I walked around for years absolutely terrified and feeling guilty on top of it, because why was I so scared of the Rapture and tribulation? I cried a lot, I made bargains with God, I worried about growing older and having a child because the Bible says "Woe to those mothers with nursing babies" (I did not want to see my future baby die). There was no joy. Only fear.

Fast forward to now. I no longer believe in the religion I was raised in.

I can identify with everything in your post! This is why I started the thread. I'm not sure exactly what I believe, but I absolutely still have daily fears about the End Times, The Rapture, etc. My mom instilled so much fear about that stuff, and I'm nowhere near being over it. Logically, I know it's all a little crazy, but there's still the what if? 

19 hours ago, Destiny said:

Oh they did @eyequeue. My parents read and believed these books. It still blows people's minds that I have never seen a lot of the cartoons and movies that were all the rage when I was a kid. Mister destiny just had to explain the power of greyskull thing to me. It still gets him how much I missed for silly reasons.

Same here. There were very few shows allowed in my parents' house. 

Thanks for your thoughtful responses, friends. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks about this and struggles a bit with it. 

[Gellhorn]

It wasn't that long ago that a vaccination scar was regarded as the mark of the beast.  It wasn't contained to the UK either. 

Bodily Matters: The Anti-Vaccination Movement in England, 1853–1907

On 5/28/2016 at 11:44 AM, Loveday said:

This. I go to my primary care physician at least once every three months (diabetic, have to monitor my A1c along with other issues), and they ask me the same barrage of questions every. single. time. 

I'm almost to the point of loading all sorts of information into my Kingston, encrypt it and hand it to the myriad of people who have access to my records and ask me to remove my clothes with regularity.  I can get a printout of that day's fun & games, upload it and when they ask me AGAIN for the SAME information they asked just a week ago, I don't have to answer it AGAIN.  Just whip it out, tell them to plug it into the usb drive, deal with the encryption and let them do their thing.  Then they give it back to me.

It'll never fly, of course.

 

[SilverBeach]

On 5/26/2016 at 2:08 PM, molecule said:

It's one of those theological matters I haven't wrestled with much yet. I've been more concerned with how to live out my faith on a daily basis and learn to stop worrying about the future. 

Would like this several times if I could. End time discussions are a waste of time to me. What can anyone do about anything to happen in tbe future? Or not? I am not a believer in bible literality or infallibility, so there is that.

Caring for widows and orphans (the needy), loving God, loving my neighbor as Jesus commanded, these things are the focus of my being a Christ follower. The mark of the beast, chips, all of that are distractions from the real gospel of reconciliation. The gospel of peace. So I worry about none of it. Besides, the real mark of the beast is unkindness and hate toward our fellow man, especially those we see as different from us.

[EyeQueue]

I'm so sorry so many of you have deeply-entrenched fears about this. My own parents were into the whole Hal Lindsey Late, Great, Planet Earth thing for a short period of time, but were mostly dilettantes (even though they did move us out to a sort of commune in the AZ wilderness for almost a year, but that's a whole other story).

So, while I heard this (and their strange theory that Ronald Reagan was the AntiChrist ), they didn't harp on it day in and day out, so I didn't end up being super afraid. I came of age at the tail end of the Cold War, though, so as a kid in the 80s, I don't think anything could have scared me more than the idea that any day nuclear destruction would rain down from the USSR.

OK, on second thought, then, I was super afraid of something (nuclear war), but just not the Mark of the Beast/missing the Rapture/living through the Tribulation thing.

I just don't get scaring the shit out of your kid to that extent. My Nana had been made to be so afraid of the devil that even when she was a grown woman if she woke up in the middle of the night and saw a jacket on a chair or something she would think it was the devil coming to get her.

[myusername]

My Nana had been made to be so afraid of the devil that even when she was a grown woman if she woke up in the middle of the night and saw a jacket on a chair or something she would think it was the devil coming to get her. [emoji20]

This is a common thing for me, as well. And any shows... Or even *talk* about demons or possession or poltergeist or *anything* of the like scares the shit out of me for days. Nightmares. Afraid to think about it for fear that *thinking * about it might invite them in.

But, I *know* this is all irrational. It isn't something that comes up often... I've learned to cope... But the initial instinct is so ingrained.

Lol. I'm mostly a lurker - I don't post much, lol, and now I'm probably coming off as some paranoid freak.

Anyway. The point is, that that stuff messes with a kid's head.

And Gorbachev was the antichrist for awhile. Along with every European leader of that time. We were just watching and waiting for them to show their true colors. This was drilled into us several times a day in classes.

[iweartanktops]

15 hours ago, EyeQueue said:

I just don't get scaring the shit out of your kid to that extent. My Nana had been made to be so afraid of the devil that even when she was a grown woman if she woke up in the middle of the night and saw a jacket on a chair or something she would think it was the devil coming to get her.

I don't get it either. It's definitely not something we plan to do! I'm so fucking scared of hell, The Rapture, etc. Which brings me to... 

15 hours ago, myusername said:

This is a common thing for me, as well. And any shows... Or even *talk* about demons or possession or poltergeist or *anything* of the like scares the shit out of me for days. Nightmares. Afraid to think about it for fear that *thinking * about it might invite them in.

But, I *know* this is all irrational. It isn't something that comes up often... I've learned to cope... But the initial instinct is so ingrained.

Lol. I'm mostly a lurker - I don't post much, lol, and now I'm probably coming off as some paranoid freak.

Anyway. The point is, that that stuff messes with a kid's head.

And Gorbachev was the antichrist for awhile. Along with every European leader of that time. We were just watching and waiting for them to show their true colors. This was drilled into us several times a day in classes.

No. You don't sound like a paranoid freak! You sound similar to me. That stuff on TV scares the hell out of me and I start thinking about how my mom said that's how demons get in to your home, etc. I know it's fucking crazy but that's what I was taught, repeatedly. And don't get me started on Ouiji boards and Tarot cards! I'm still afraid to go near them, lest Satan.... Does whatever I'm supposed to fear him doing. 

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?, do you have thoughts/beliefs about the End Times, etc? 

Sorry, I'm just really interested in this discussion. 

[CTRLZero]

When I was growing up, I attended a Lutheran church (close to our house), which I found so dull that I longed for the end times to be upon us.  (Kidding!)   One side of our family was deep into the End Times studies (picture adventists hanging out on rooftops) and brought all sorts of interesting and chilling reading materials into the house.  I try to be rational, but like another poster or two said above, there is that moment of unease when I think about end times.

I was studying a self-published family history, and discovered my great-uncle was a fairly well-known faith healer!  I already knew about my grandfather's ability to go into trances and make prophecies.  Probably for a fee.  The crazy runs deep in our genetic code.

This is a very informative thread, and it's amazing the websites out there that proclaim the end times are nigh (aren't they always).

[Black Aliss]

Before microchips were "the mark of the beast" it was RFIDs. Before RFIDs it was social security numbers. There was probably a mark of the beast before social security numbers, but I don't know what it might have been.

http://themarkofthebeast.com/42us666.shtml

[Loveday]

3 hours ago, iweartanktops said:

I don't get it either. It's definitely not something we plan to do! I'm so fucking scared of hell, The Rapture, etc. Which brings me to... 

No. You don't sound like a paranoid freak! You sound similar to me. That stuff on TV scares the hell out of me and I start thinking about how my mom said that's how demons get in to your home, etc. I know it's fucking crazy but that's what I was taught, repeatedly. And don't get me started on Ouiji boards and Tarot cards! I'm still afraid to go near them, lest Satan.... Does whatever I'm supposed to fear him doing. 

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?, do you have thoughts/beliefs about the End Times, etc? 

Sorry, I'm just really interested in this discussion. 

Not exactly the same thing (but close): This reminds me of an old friend of mine who used to think books like Turmoil in the Toybox and similar books were full of scary truth. One day she was telling me how she thought Satan was really giving her a hard time lately. When I asked why she felt that way, she described a few minor things that had happened, irritating things but nothing that I would blame Satan for! And then she said she felt sure it was because one of her child's friends had left a copy of one of the Lord of the Rings books in the back seat of her car and it was sending out demonic influences or something. I tried to explain to her that Tolkien was a Christian and the book had a lot of Christian symbolism in it (I didn't even bother pointing out to her that she was being superstitious, which is not something Christians are supposed to be), but she wasn't buying it. She was convinced that book had brought evil into her life.

[purple_summer]

Wow, sorry I'm late to this thread. 

I grew up in the Left Behind era. I read half of the (40 ish!) jr versions plus the second half of the adult series (from The Indwelling to Glorious Appearing) for "fun". We watched the movies: the Revelation series (with Mr T and a bunch of other f-list actors, highlights include hangings, death by incinerator, and virtual reality headsets that force you to accept the mark or be beheaded), the Omega Code movies (absolutely horrifically terrifying-blood covenants and satan ripping out someone's spleen) and of course the Left Behind movies. A popular prank was to leave your clothes sitting on a chair somewhere so people thought you were raptured (and in the process scare the shit out of your kids). We even had the VHS you were supposed to leave out for people after the rapture with an explanation of what happened....

Aside from everything that's already been mentioned it was also emphasized that if you heard the gospel before the rapture your heart would be hardened and you wouldn't have a chance to accept christ during the tribulation. So if you get left behind you're doubly screwed. I also developed an aversion to shofar blowing/horns. So if I hear any kind of fanfare I panic because Jesus is returning and everything is about to go to shit. 

Don't know if this is what you were looking for but that's my general experience.

[iweartanktops]

Thanks for sharing @purple_summer. I feel like this is kind of a support group for those of us who have been indoctrinated into the crazy.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@iweartanktops--I've been reading this thread with interest!

I guess I come at the "end times" beliefs from a different background than some of the people who've posted. My church growing up was a fairly "liberal" (for lack of a better word) Presbyterian church. I don't know if any of the adult Bible studies focused on Revelation, but I never heard much about it in Sunday school, youth group, or in the Sunday sermon. The closest I remember was someone (??) referring to parts of Matthew and Mark, when Jesus said, "...no one knows the day or the hour...". No one seemed to think we should be searching for signs that the end times were soon, but that we should try to live a life that would be our best, whether Jesus came tomorrow or in a billion years. (I left that church around age 19, so my impressions and memories are not that clear.)

My next church experiences included beliefs in a pre-tribulation Rapture, but not an official church credo about the end times. Sunday sermons didn't center on fire, brimstone, or the tribulation. I read a few fictional books about that stuff, but I had read my fill by the time Left Behind came on the market. 

As far as my current beliefs, I don't know. I do believe the there will be an end to this world someday, but I believe that giving up on this world because you (anyone) believes Jesus will return tonight is a cop out. (I did like what someone posted upthread about Revelation being a sneak peek of who will win in the end.) I don't know if there will be a Rapture, or a Tribulation, or maybe just a gradual change. I believe that God is just and won't turn away anyone who truly claims Him. I have no idea if there will be a "Mark of the Beast", or what one would be. (My personal aversion to a microchip or something similar has more to do with a distrust of the security of any system and memories of reading 1984.) 

I'm mostly okay with my ignorance, but I do want to spend more time reading my Bible(s). If a person's beliefs come down to what she teaches her kids? Well, ours attend a church club and memorize verses, but we try to help them understand what the stories and verses mean and not just parrot the words. When Hell has come up in conversation with our 7 year old, I've mostly emphasized Hell as a total absence of God. But our kids watch kids' shows on television, go Trunk or Treating for Halloween, and believe in Santa. I don't know if that makes me balanced or if it means I'm waffling. For right now, it will just have to do.  :-)

Sorry I didn't have a short answer!