why evangelicals are drawn to MLM (article)

[hoipolloi]

Plexus seems to be a popular MLM, with everyone from Shoshanna Pearl Easling to one of the Wissman's peddling that crap.

[refugee]

8 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Plexus seems to be a popular MLM, with everyone from Shoshanna Pearl Easling to one of the Wissman's peddling that crap.

Hadn't heard of Plexus so I looked it up. 

Ambassadors? Really? Why don't they just call them salespeople?

[nokidsmom]

36 minutes ago, refugee said:

<snipped>

And then there are the others I've heard say that if there's a christian symbol in a store or company's logo, they steer clear. Evidently christians are notorious for not paying their bills on time, or something.

I am one of those people.   I have seen far too many dishonest so-called Christians in my life, (ironically, due to being raised in a religious home that promoted church activities so much that I had a front row seat to some real dishonesty) that any christian symbol on a business raises red flags rather than assurance that I am dealing with someone who will be honest and forthright.  I also have no patience for any preaching or God talk when I am trying to conduct business with someone.   Years ago, when Mr. No and I were contracting for windows on our home, we decided against one contractor because he wanted to pray when we met with him. 

[CTRLZero]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

it was exactly like a TV preacher's meeting

I understand.  If you met me in person, you would know instantly that I am the least likely person to succeed in promoting any sort of pyramid scheme.  I am alternately shy and surly.  So imagine my surprise when a co-worker invited me to lunch and launched into a spiel about why I should get involved in jewelry sales.  She tried every trick in the book to get me to sign on (i.e., hypnotism, guilt, threats, patriotism).

Even though she enticed me with promises of free cruises and oodles of money, I was so disgusted that I just leveled my infamous freezing glare at her and excused myself as quickly as possible.   This poor lady invested her retirement savings, never did get her free vacations, and last I heard was starting up a real estate business right around the most recent market crash.

[clueliss]

Melaleuca is 'fancy' for Tea Tree Oil in doTerra speak.  

[nokidsmom]

19 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

I understand.  If you met me in person, you would know instantly that I am the least likely person to succeed in promoting any sort of pyramid scheme.  I am alternately shy and surly.  So imagine my surprise when a co-worker invited me to lunch and launched into a spiel about why I should get involved in jewelry sales.  She tried every trick in the book to get me to sign on (i.e., hypnotism, guilt, threats, patriotism).

Even though she enticed me with promises of free cruises and oodles of money, I was so disgusted that I just leveled my infamous freezing glare at her and excused myself as quickly as possible.   This poor lady invested her retirement savings, never did get her free vacations, and last I heard was starting up a real estate business right around the most recent market crash.

OMG, I  had a similar thing.  A coworker asked me to meet her one afternoon in the company lunchroom.    I was scratching my head as to why, guessed she had some idea she wanted to talk to me about, something company related.  Nope, she pitched her MLM type scheme to me, which I forget what it was, but I was pissed over being put in that position.    Her pitch was more along the lines of "help me as a friend, pleeeeeze" wide eyed pleading.   I didn't cave, I think I just flat out told her I didn't have that kind of money to spare which was the truth but @CTRLZero I sure could have borrowed your freezing glare on that day.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

Plexus seems to be a popular MLM, with everyone from Shoshanna Pearl Easling to one of the Wissman's peddling that crap.

I HATE Plexus. Last year it seemed like half the people I know got involved with it. All of their FB posts looked exactly the same and the people I weren't friends with on FB would call or text me stuff. It is so awkward to deal with people who are implying you are fat so you need to buy their stuff. Or that you look perpetually exhausted, so you need to buy this magic pink solution. Or that your skin doesn't look healthy. Thanks for telling me you think I look fat and sickly, but I'm not buying your product. 

[refugee]

40 minutes ago, clueliss said:

Melaleuca is 'fancy' for Tea Tree Oil in doTerra speak.  

Yes, but Melaleuca is a *fancy* tea tree oil! That's why a whole company was built around it. You can't get the special melaleuca proprietary whatever, unless you buy Melaleuca brand products out of the Melaleuca catalog!

(But you can't buy Melaleuca products at all, unless you commit to a recurring $40-a-month order. (I hear they've upped it to $50 a month now.) Kind of like Amazon's thing, where they ship you something every few weeks on a schedule. Only with Melaleuca, when our so-called "friends" were trying to rope us into the program, it was *every* month, and minimum $40. So if all you wanted was the laundry detergent... tough luck. You had to pad your order with all kinds of things to get it. I don't know how people made a living selling this stuff... Oh, wait. They didn't.)

On second thought... were the Melaleuca company and doTerra connected somehow? Or is it just coincidence of product names? (I'm thinking "melaleuca" is the scientific name for the plant that is the source of tea tree oil, maybe.)

Back when Melaleuca was big in local MLM circles, you couldn't find tea tree oil easily anywhere else. Now you can buy it at any store that carries EOs.

[Marian the Librarian]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Plexus seems to be a popular MLM, with everyone from Shoshanna Pearl Easling to one of the Wissman's peddling that crap.

The Reins SAHDs are big into Plexus - their FB pages are full of it. Who knew, it cures everything from cancer to Lyme disease to thinning hair!! 

[hoipolloi]

Various Osmonds have made $$ through peddling Melaleuca.

Note: in trying to find web links for this comment, I fell into a major Osmond rabbit hole Pinterest. Who knew Pinterest was a repository for Osmondophiles? Would link but I'm on Tapatalk.

[Seven Severn]

5 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Plexus seems to be a popular MLM, with everyone from Shoshanna Pearl Easling to one of the Wissman's peddling that crap.

Sara (Smith) Absher is selling this stuff now. She has a separate Facebook page for it and is really hitting it hard.

Her Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saranicoleabsher/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cheerstopink

[Jasmar]

I love Melalecua products! I was a customer for 20-something years, but lost access in the divorce last year. I never did the business end of things, but my XH did a little bit for a time, so I went to a couple Of conventions. Very, very Mormon. My X-mil got us involved, but she is a truly crazy funny and quit because she didn't want to support a Mormon company.

btw, unless they've changed it, you cna buy directly from the company, without any agreement. It just costs more.

[Honeysuckle]

11 hours ago, refugee said:

Yes, but Melaleuca is a *fancy* tea tree oil! That's why a whole company was built around it. You can't get the special melaleuca proprietary whatever, unless you buy Melaleuca brand products out of the Melaleuca catalog!

My mom spent most of my childhood looking for the next get-rich-quick scheme. She sold Melaleuca for years until they caught her reselling their crap on Amazon for a tidy profit and deactivated her account. Reselling clearance crap on Amazon has been her next big thing for the last few years. It's annoying, but I just thank my lucky stars that she's bypassed the latest flood of MLM companies.

Amway always makes me think of my high school bestie's grandfather, who let his grandkids each pick one item out of the Amway catalog for Christmas presents.

[December]

I've known a few mainstream Christian and fundie-lite women who got into MLMs. I think they liked appearing to contribute financially to the household while still being able to be considered a SAHM because they obviously valued that title/role. A loophole of sorts. Though none of them was actually making money (in fact, most were losing money on the MLMs). 

This resurgence of MLMs lately really irritates me. I've seen too many otherwise level-headed people get swept up in them and basically beg family/friends to buy and/or join. 

[salsa]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 11:08 PM, Cleopatra7 said:

This article about how the prosperity gospel helped facilitate the financial crisis may be more helpful:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/did-christianity-cause-the-crash/307764/

Churches are great ways to spread MLMs because you have a large set of pre-existing social networks where trust and social capital already exists. People within those networks will trust another person who claims to have found a good opportunity, because that other person is "one of them." Many of Bernie Madoff's victims, for example, were elderly Jewish people who trusted Madoff because he was "like them" and heard about him from other people in their social circles. The same is true of a MLM recruiter who sets up shop at a church. If you can get the pastor to endorse your product/service, then that is a great endorsement, because the flock will also trust that the pastor wouldn't steer them in a bad direction. Evangelical churches with a lot of SAHMs are also prime targets, because these women may want a way to make money without being away from home, and I suspect many of them, especially in the more fundie churches, may have been taught to suppress critical thinking.  

Thanks for that article. It still doesn't explain the attraction for MLM's among evangelical Christians from the 70's (at least), which was prior to the "prosperity gospel."

[MarblesMom]

In the mid 90s, I worked for an MLM from Sweden - Oriflame.  (Bad name in my opinion for a Mary Kay knock off co.) Not selling, in a corporate type role.

SO MANY of the higher up consultants/directors were 7th Day Adventist.  OMG.

When we did a national meeting, we had to schedule it around their Sabbath Days.  There were THAT many.

[SilverBeach]

Here's another MLM lie: "It's  not selling, its sharing. The product will sell itself".

I am so not a salesperson, and I would starve if my livelihood depended upon selling. Yet, brainwashed MLMers would tell me this lie. 

Another lie: "When you join up, you will be in control of your own business". Total BS, the MLM controls everything, just read their paperwork.

I went to a Nerium convention with a friend. They make their money selling crap to the "independent brand partners", not selling the overpriced facial lotion. It was a weird cult atmosphere. Afterwards, I read everything I could find about Nerium and pyramid schemes and could not believe these scams were allowed to operate. 

I saw a Mary Kay meeting taking place at my church and I was not happy about it. These schemes prey on the hopes and dreams of vulnerable people.

BTW, you will find Nerium and other MLM products at deep discount on Amazon where victims are trying to recoup at least a small portion of their losses. Lots of Mary Kay.

 

[JesusCampSongs]

I know a couple of women who made a crazy amount of money selling Mary Kay and Tupperware back in the 90's, but they were definitely the exception to the rule. I think the only reasons they were so successful is that they got in on the game super early and were also well-connected at the church we went to, so they became the de-facto Mary Kay and Tupperware sellers of their social networks. Also, the MLM market was significantly less saturated back then and the economy overall was a lot better (so there were fewer products and fewer people competing to sell them). 

A few years ago, I was renting out an exposed basement apartment with my ex. Our landlords were fundie lite, and very nice people (for the most part; we chose to not discuss politics with them ever). The wife was always letting her MLM friends from church have parties at their house, at least once a month. I attended to make the numbers look good (it's a thing) and get free product. The sales pitch was always very Lifestyle-Aspirational, in that they were always trying to sell you on not having to work outside the house anymore (oh the shame and ignominy! apparently) and how much more satisfying it is to have a flexible work schedule and be there for your kids. It involved some pretty sly and ugly shaming tactics, which I was not a fan of. 

I don't ever see myself doing it. I don't have the free time and it would probably make my friends hate me, on top of being a massive waste of money. 

[Four is Enough]

I never knew anyone who made tons of money selling Mary Kay. Tupperware? In the 70s this stuff was FABULOus. My consultant knew she could count on me for two parties a year. They gave actual gifts as prizes. I got an iron, a set of coolers, one of which I still have, and many other cool household items for having Tupperware parties.

I got into Creative Memories as a new mother. Looking back, I can see how heavily influenced by evangelicals it was. CM was a scrapbook supply company. The materials were high quality, the premise was good, (save your memories) and I was under the mistaken impression that everyone was as interested in keeping scrapbooks as I was. WRONG!!

Their premise was sell, sell, sell, and recruit, recruit, recruit! I knew a few people who made good money at that, but as (I think) Cleopatra said, they were the ones who got into it VERY early. 

 

I remember a friend telling me about hearing about this new company in the late 80s on "Focus on the Family"....

[apple1]

I still love Tupperware (the real thing) - as IMO the knock-offs on some items don't cut it. And I still have a couple of favorite pieces of 30 year old Tupperware still working great.

I might be mistaken, but I am under the impression that Tupperware can now be purchased off a website. ??

[THERetroGamerNY]

9 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I went to a Nerium convention with a friend. They make their money selling crap to the "independent brand partners", not selling the overpriced facial lotion. It was a weird cult atmosphere. Afterwards, I read everything I could find about Nerium and pyramid schemes and could not believe these scams were allowed to operate.

That's because they aren't pyramid schemes, and the US FTC has even gone on record as saying so because they keep receiving so many false reports. "Pyramid scheme" is an actual legal thing that will get your ass dragged into a lawsuit - these MLMs don't fit the term at all. I'm surprised you didn't discover this if you read all you could about them.

For instance, AmWay was seriously accused of being a pyramid scheme. So much so that they were actually taken to court over that very issue. The court found zero indications of a pyramid scheme, but they did find other illegal business practices that in the end damaged AmWay considerably. Ironically, I have still heard AmWay called a pyramid scheme, to which a certain character from The Princess Bride would say:

What an actual pyramid scheme does is have some con artist establish a fake business that he never plans on delivering -  and he knows full well it will soon collapse. He gets, say, 6 people to be his "inner circle" that will split the profits. They then recruit 36 people, who give the original six a sum of money and are now "part of the program". Those 6 recruit 216 people, who also give the same sum of money. These 216 pay off the 36, who then give the first profit to the original 6 scam artists. The 216 recruit 1,296 people ... who funnel the money down the pyramid the original 6... Rinse and repeat.

If you plot out this "pyramid" of growth, it eventually hits more than the population of the planet. It is an unsustainable growth model whos sole purpose is to keep funneling money down to the original 6 people, with the illusion of paying other people down the "pyramid". Once the cash stops flowing in, since they have no actual, real product to sale - they skip town. There are other models, but this is the classical example you hear cited.

MLMs are corporations, or actual legit incorporated businesses, with a sustainable business model, and some of them have been around - quite profitably - for many, many years. Pyramid schemes are very short-term planned implosions. Also, MLMs have an actual product that is readily sold and consumed by many varied people.

I think a conversation topic that is being missed here is that some of these corporations might actually have legit concerns in regards to women, and "empowerment" of women. But my guess on what happens here is that these genuine ideas hit the shitter as soon as corporate needs, and politics, are introduced. In order to keep corporate happy, profit margins are eaten into - which means that these sales reps (call them whatever else they want. I understand how sales work... you don't call yourself a "sales rep", but you still are...) have to work twice as hard to see reasonable profits, and unless the person involved is eager to expend all this extra effort (in order to maintain that SAHM status or what not) then they will operate at a loss.

So, these churches, and fundies, see this glowing appeal of how they can sell a genuinely fun and honest product, AND it ties in with them being a SAHM ... but the actual reality of trying to be an "independent sales rep" with a for-profit corporation as the mothership is really a sort of oxymoronic relationship that forces you to work harder than if you had a real job (and then, as examples have vividly been provided already) cornering co-workers and trying to get them involved so they can turn the promised profit.

Kinda a shitty business model... But it seems to work?

I hate capitalism. =\

[SilverBeach]

@THERetroGamerNY, yeah it means what I think it means. The FTC cherry picks who to prosecute and who not to.

Not all MLMs are scams, but pyramid schemes are MLMs that are scams based on stacking up warm bodies. Actual sales matter little if at all.The "business opportunity" is the real product, not whatever thingie is being sold. Follow the numbers.

The terminology is admittedly confusing. 

Oh, and the model works for those who start such scammy scams and their cronies . Ninety nine percent of victims make only a paltry amount of money before ghosting, and are far in the hole after expenses. It doesn't work for them.

[EmiGirl]

I'm a consultant for several direct sales companies. I do it for the discounts and a bit of pocket money.

 

Plus, I will say Thirty-One convention is crazy fun.

[SilverBeach]

@THERetroGamerNY, the pyramid you descibed is exactly how these disreputable organizations work! All they do is add a product to the mix to obfuscate things. 

Money scams are called "savings" clubs, "investment" clubs, "fortune blessing" clubs and other nonsense and are fraudelent on their face.Both types of scam/cons depend on the yearning to get something for nothing or almost nothing, in the way of work.

[SilverBeach]

5 hours ago, apple1 said:

I still love Tupperware (the real thing) - as IMO the knock-offs on some items don't cut it. And I still have a couple of favorite pieces of 30 year old Tupperware still working great.

I might be mistaken, but I am under the impression that Tupperware can now be purchased off a website. ??

Yes I have very old pieces of working Tupperware in harvest gold and burnt orange. Rubbermaid and the lije aren't nearly as good. You can buy online w/o a rep, same with  Avon.