Duggars by the Dozenty!!11!!: The 20th (THREAD) Achieved!

[theinvisiblegirl]

13 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Your kids shouldn't be your best friends. Maybe when your kids are adults but when they are kids, they need parents. Not best friends. 

I don't necessarily agree with this. My dad has always been both friend and parent. That's not to say that I didn't have any friends, but we did a lot of things together. He always treated me like an equal. My mom tried to be my friend and parent, but we didn't have the best relationship, so I resisted the friend portion of our relationship until the past few months. But the fact that they both tried to be a friend didn't mean that there were no structure, no rules, no standards, and it was never confusing to me when they slipped back into more of a parent role if times necessitated it. Rather, I think the fact that they both made an effort to be a friend to me made it easier for me to trust them as my parents and as people in general. Granted, I'm an only child, so maybe I would have a different view if I had had one or two siblings. (I've never wanted siblings, so my parents' plans and my mother's health correlated nicely with this.)

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

I don't necessarily agree with this. My dad has always been both friend and parent. That's not to say that I didn't have any friends, but we did a lot of things together. He always treated me like an equal. My mom tried to be my friend and parent, but we didn't have the best relationship, so I resisted the friend portion of our relationship until the past few months. But the fact that they both tried to be a friend didn't mean that there were no structure, no rules, no standards, and it was never confusing to me when they slipped back into more of a parent role if times necessitated it. Rather, I think the fact that they both made an effort to be a friend to me made it easier for me to trust them as my parents and as people in general. Granted, I'm an only child, so maybe I would have a different view if I had had one or two siblings. (I've never wanted siblings, so my parents' plans and my mother's health correlated nicely with this.)

3 of my closest and oldest friends had mothers who tried to be their BFF. It caused all three of them problems in different ways. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

5 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

3 of my closest and oldest friends had mothers who tried to be their BFF. It caused all three of them problems in different ways. 

I'm sorry it caused them problems. I have friends who benefited from having a BFF parent and friends who didn't. I guess it depends on the circumstances.

[EmCatlyn]

18 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

I'm sorry it caused them problems. I have friends who benefited from having a BFF parent and friends who didn't. I guess it depends on the circumstances.

A parent who listens and is a companion is a good thing. A parent who wants the kid to listen to the parent's problems and be a companion to the parent is not a good thing.

My daughter and I have always been close.  We've had our moments, like all mothers and daughters do, but even during the dreadful teenage years, we enjoyed each other's company.    Now that she is thirty,  we talk like friends. . She lives in another state, but we talk at least once a week every week.  We recommend movies, books, discuss music, fashion, people . . . When we get together we enjoy doing some of the same things. If she were not my daughter, I would definitely call her my friend, and I believe she would call me a friend too.

However, I think of her as my daughter, not my friend, because our relationship as mother-daughter is more important, in part because it is a relationship we cannot have with anyone else. We have 27+ years of shared memories.  We would love each even if we weren't friends.   Parents who have a good relationship with their kid are more than friends.

When young people tell me that their mothers or fathers are their "best friends," I wonder if they mean that their parents are "more than friends" or "just like a friend."   If the later, I often wonder if the parent has grown up.  Children who are friends with their parents need the parents to be parents also, not just friends. By this I don't mean that parents need to be authority figures all the time.  I mean that parents have a greater responsibility to care about their children's needs that an ordinary friend might.  Specifically, parents shouldn't use their kids to meet their own needs.

When parents say that their kids are their best friends, I get skeptical.  They may mean only that they enjoy their kids and like to do things with them.  Or they may mean that they turn to the kids to meet emotional and practical needs that the parents should meet for each other.

 

[theinvisiblegirl]

5 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

A parent who listens and is a companion is a good thing. A parent who wants the kid to listen to the parent's problems and be a companion to the parent is not a good thing.

My daughter and I have always been close.  We've had our moments, like all mothers and daughters do, but even during the dreadful teenage years, we enjoyed each other's company.    Now that she is thirty,  we talk like friends. . She lives in another state, but we talk at least once a week every week.  We recommend movies, books, discuss music, fashion, people . . . When we get together we enjoy doing some of the same things. If she were not my daughter, I would definitely call her my friend, and I believe she would call me a friend too.

However, I think of her as my daughter, not my friend, because our relationship as mother-daughter is more important, in part because it is a relationship we cannot have with anyone else. We have 27+ years of shared memories.  We would love each even if we weren't friends.   Parents who have a good relationship with their kid are more than friends.

When young people tell me that their mothers or fathers are their "best friends," I wonder if they mean that their parents are "more than friends" or "just like a friend."   If the later, I often wonder if the parent has grown up.  Children who are friends with their parents need the parents to be parents also, not just friends. By this I don't mean that parents need to be authority figures all the time.  I mean that parents have a greater responsibility to care about their children's needs that an ordinary friend might.  Specifically, parents shouldn't use their kids to meet their own needs.

When parents say that their kids are their best friends, I get skeptical.  They may mean only that they enjoy their kids and like to do things with them.  Or they may mean that they turn to the kids to meet emotional and practical needs that the parents should meet for each other.

I guess this is how I would describe it then. He's my dad and a friend, and she's my mom and she's now my friend. I've never thought of them as friend and not parent, though for most of my 21 years I did think of my mother as parent and acquaintance, and only friend as of the last 4-5 months. Both of them are mature people with friends their own ages and older, just as I have my own friends my age and older.

[NakedKnees]

I've never cared for the "parent vs. friend" mentality. Why not both? My mom and I have a very friendly relationship, always have, and I feel like it's done nothing but good... to me, the phrase "I'm not my son's/daughter's friend" sounds really painful regardless of the context.

To each their own, and parenting should always be first priority, of course, but I just don't see why it must be one or the other.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

I guess this is how I would describe it then. He's my dad and a friend, and she's my mom and she's now my friend. I've never thought of them as friend and not parent, though for most of my 21 years I did think of my mother as parent and acquaintance, and only friend as of the last 4-5 months. Both of them are mature people with friends their own ages and older, just as I have my own friends my age and older.

The Duggars, on the other hand, seem to be jealous of relationships the kids may have which are not within the parents' control and, insofar as they call the kids' their "friends," what they mean is that the kids are expected to satisfy some of the parents' social and emotional needs.  The kids don't have "best friends" in their parents even though they may think they do because the parents' relationship with their kids maintains parental authority/superiority and don't allow the kids to do function independently.  That is not friendship.

[JermajestyDuggar]

54 minutes ago, NakedKnees said:

I've never cared for the "parent vs. friend" mentality. Why not both? My mom and I have a very friendly relationship, always have, and I feel like it's done nothing but good... to me, the phrase "I'm not my son's/daughter's friend" sounds really painful regardless of the context.

To each their own, and parenting should always be first priority, of course, but I just don't see why it must be one or the other.

From my own observation, 3 of my friends' mothers couldn't just switch from BFF to Mom when necessary. I think a lot of people have that problem when they try to be BFFs with their kids. One of my friends had a mother that treated her like a friend and not a daughter. She would talk about financial problems to her daughter and other things her daughter was not able to take on as a kid. Her mother treated her like a confidant or friend to vent or talk to when she needed it. 

Another friend had a mother that rarely disciplined her because who disciplines their BFF? I sure don't treat my friends like children.

And another friend had a pretty young mom who wanted to party with her when she was a teen and it mortified her. 

[bashfulpixie]

My parents were parents with my sibling and I until we were grown.  Now we have a relationship that has more friend elements than parents elements, but we're both in our 30s.  BIG difference IMO

[Natalie22]

I think one issue with 'friend vs. parent' is that people have different ideas of the friend part.  To me, being a 'friend' to your child means that you can't step up and discipline them or assert yourself as the adult.  It doesn't mean that you can't hang out, have good discussions, have inside jokes, or do certain things together, which are all essential parts of being a parent.  Being a friend instead of a parent means that you are equals in the relationship, which you shouldn't be with a child still growing up.  At the end of the day you are responsible for the mental and physical wellbeing of that child and can also foresee consequences that child cannot.  Another way to look at it is that if you are friends with your child, then you both rely on each other for emotional support, which is extremely unhealthy.  In a friendship, you can share worries back and forth and should expect to give and get support.  However, with your child you should not use them as a soundingboard for your decisions or the discuss adult problems (troubles in your marriage, sexual behaviour, issues at work, money troubles, etc.).  All the things I've listen are fine to share in a friendship, but not in a parent-child relationship.  Obviously this changes once the child reaches adulthood, but there probably should be things still not shared.  

It's great that so many of you have had such close relationships with your parents growing up, but I think it's important to ask yourself before you say they were your friend growing up, did they share there problems and concerns with me?  did they not discipline me when appropriate? If they were still able to assert themselves when necessary, then you just had really great parents.

[nastyhobbitses]

I think the sort of companionship parents and children have is very different from standard BFF/peer friendships. I get along really well with my parents. We've always enjoyed each other's company, I've always felt like I could talk to them candidly, and we share interests (though I'm pretty sure that a lot of that was by my parents' design). But that relationship I have with my parents isn't the same as the relationship I have with, say, my best friend. If my parents tried to be my BFFs rather than trusted authority figures I can relate to and rely on if I need help, that relationship would be incredibly unhealthy and strange.

I also think that when people talk about parents trying to be their kids' friends, they're talking about parents worrying more about their kids liking and approving of them/seeking validation from their children than about being a trusted authority figure who sets proper boundaries. There were times when I didn't like my mom, there were times when she didn't like me (a standard line when I really stepped out of line was "I love you, but I don't like you right now"*), but even when we pissed each other off, I knew that she'd do anything for me and I'd do anything for her.

 

*I also remember my mom telling me a couple years ago that her favorite ages for raising me were six-eight months old because I was developing a personality but didn't yet have the motor or verbal skills to object to the "adorable" outfits she subjected me to, and my twenties, because she could relate to me in a much more egalitarian way without it being unhealthy or inappropriate (and she gets to kvell to all her friends about my adult accomplishments). She basically raised me in such a way that we could relate as friends/companions once I was emotionally mature enough for such a relationship.

[OyToTheVey]

I also think it's more of a personality thing. My mom and I are like 2 ends of the spectrum. I'm not sure we can ever truly be friends, even now that I'm almost 33. Every time I say something she judges and starts giving me advise instead of just listening to me. It's even about unimportant things. For example, I bought myself an expensive birthday present this year and her first reaction was why is it in black, you should wear white. Meanwhile, I've been wanting those sneaker boot things for like 6 months. They finally went on sale, so I bought them. My whole life she's known I'm drawn to darker colors. I'm very pale and have dark hair. Purple, blue, black just look nicer on me. She still tries to change that. Everything she says she tries to change me. I can't be friends with someone like that. 

It would be lovely to be friends with my mom but I just can't tell her anything. Even unimportant trivial things like shoes, she just buzzkills. It's her personality. Over the years, I've just become more laid back. I don't want things to bother me anymore. So I just don't talk to her about anything.

[lizzybee]

On 6/27/2016 at 4:02 PM, JesSky03 said:

I have 4 sisters total. 3 of them are half sisters(same dad) and all have J names. Not sure why that is, never thought to ask but maybe I will now if I remember. There's about a 10 year age gap between those three and then me and my full blooded sister. Our first names are very different from the older 3 and we do not share the same first letter. We do however share a middle name. It has never bothered me. All that probably just shows my dad let's the women take control in that department 

My sister in law and husband are both J names and they were given the same initials - JDW. I wonder how creative my in-laws would have had to have been to keep that trend going if they'd had nineteen or something. 

[doubleT]

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 5:08 PM, Natalie22 said:

Do you have other children that you gave different middle names?  And did you give both of your sons practically the same name?  That's my problem with it - they already have a J name as a family thing.  Not giving them any sense of separation in their names just seems mean. 

@Natalie22   Yes, I have a girl and she does not have her father's (or brother's) middle name.  My sons have very different first names which start with different letters, so their monograms are different.  They both go by their first name (or nickname of such) so the middle name doesn't come up very often. 

I have never regretted giving both my sons their father's middle name.  I though both them deserved to be connected to their father in the same way. (Plus I love the name.) 

[gilamomster]

To me its simple really. A friend is someone I can call to vent, cry and ask for advice w/o judgement, negativity and gaslighting. A friend is someone I want to share the good, bad and the ugly with and not someone who I look at the phone and go omg what now. A friend allows for a give and take in conversation and relationship status. Sometimes I need more, sometimes she or he needs more. A friend knows when to handle a friend with kid gloves and also when to take those gloves and bitchslap ya into reality. And afterwards you still want to go for coffee, drinks etc  with them. 

My mom is not that person. My mom is all about herself. Our conversations are me going ok, sure, yep and OK. I don't share my life, problems or issues with her because she will make it about herself. That is not a friend. She's my mom, I understand the relationship, however she does not and thinks we are BFFs, I refuse to disabuse her of that belief because it will not help and she will refuse to understand the boundary. 

If you have a true friendship with your mom, I envy you and ask that you cherish it, as it is not something all of us can call our own.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

I'm 28 (almost 29) and my mom is 59. I tell my mom all the time that when I was growing up, she did such a good job of being my mom first, friend second. It enabled me to actually form a "real friendship" with her when I reached my 20s as a fully-formed adult. From Sunday through Thursday, (the weeknights) I always call her at 9 p.m. to talk about my day. It could be just a 5 minute check-in conversation or it could be 25 minutes of venting about my work day or telling funny stories of what happened during the day. We have certain activities we always do with each other, like getting mani-pedis at our favorite salon. My dad's gotten so jealous, he's even joined us. He LOVES getting pedicures now. Did I mention he turns 60 in a month? Lol.

When I was growing up, I had my friends to talk to, and I had my parents to talk to, and the type of conversations that occurred between the two definitely varied. However, I always knew if something major needed being discussed, my mom and dad were always there.

Funny story: We were recently boating on Lake Okoboji in northwest Iowa and my husband decided to wear really tight orange booty shorts and dance on the boat. The pictures, OF COURSE, made their way to Facebook. My mom saw them, laughed hilariously and told me, "I want to like and comment on this picture, but there's still some things a new mother-in-law just should not do."

1 minute ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

 

 

[MatthewDuggar]

Pickles just posted this....  not sure who, what, where, when... but it seems they are either up to something or hiding out (or both)

[gustava]

1 hour ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Pickles just posted this....  not sure who, what, where, when... but it seems they are either up to something or hiding out (or both)

They don't look joyful.

[defraudedbychipendales]

hat looks like Panera or a Jersey Mike's

 

Not Jersey Mike's - can't think of the name now

[HereticHick]

Apologies if this has already been discussed--from what I gather from the Instagrams of Lawson Bates, bugeyed Sierra, and Tim n' Franicia White, the Duggars 'n Sierra had some sort of big shindig a few days ago, including fireworks. Is this the faux Fourth of July festivities that the Duggars have put on before? Do you think it was filmed?

[PennySycamore]

41 minutes ago, defraudedbychipendales said:

hat looks like Panera or a Jersey Mike's

 

Not Jersey Mike's - can't think of the name now

Atlanta Bread Company?  Jason's Deli?  McAlister's?  They have those things that hold your order number up so the wait staff can bring it to the correct table.  I went to Jason's Deli near my daughter's after we saw Finding Dory and those light pendants are maybe a bit familiar.

Why would anyone take a photo crooked?

[sophie10130]

3 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

Atlanta Bread Company?  Jason's Deli?  McAlister's?  They have those things that hold your order number up so the wait staff can bring it to the correct table.  I went to Jason's Deli near my daughter's after we saw Finding Dory and those light pendants are maybe a bit familiar.

Why would anyone take a photo crooked?

Maybe it was someone walking by with a phone and just snapped a photo on the sly. Although, it seems like JB knew it was being taken, so must not have been that much on the sly

[EmCatlyn]

14 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

Atlanta Bread Company?  Jason's Deli?  McAlister's?  They have those things that hold your order number up so the wait staff can bring it to the correct table.  I went to Jason's Deli near my daughter's after we saw Finding Dory and those light pendants are maybe a bit familiar.

Why would anyone take a photo crooked?

It looks nicer than the Jason's Deli in our town (ours is one big room with no dividing screen) but the water glasses look right.

Panera uses different (disposable) glasses and at least around here doesn't have the numbers for your order.  

I thought of Newks (there is a Newks in Rogers and another in Fayetteville), but the water glasses are wrong.

 There is no Atlanta Bread Company in Arkansas, 

I thought The Corner Bakery company (the decor looked right and so did the water glasses, and the order numbers on the tables) but they don't have them in Arkansas.  Could they be in Florida or Texas?

Don't know anything about McCallister's , but there are lots of possibilities.

As to whether JB saw them taking the picture, maybe that is why it is crooked; he was giving the photographer the evil eye.  

Michelle seems absorbed in her phone call.  Do you suppose she was talking to one of her kids, the obgyn, or Dial-a-Prayer? 

[Bad Wolf]

Mr. Wolf and I sit across from each other when there's just the two of us, so we can see each other when we talk.

[nst]

13 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Mr. Wolf and I sit across from each other when there's just the two of us, so we can see each other when we talk.

well we have to know that they are soclose that they sit next to each other so they can face the camera correctly