Jump to content
IGNORED

Homeschooling fundie mom rants against evil American Library Asociation


lilah

Recommended Posts

Heaven forbid, kids read books about things that are actually relevant to their lives and the world in which they live. My parents never told me what I could and could not read. With that being said, I was weirdly responsible as a child and I knew which books would scare me so I would purposely not read them. This policy did however lead to me readying a Nicholas Sparks book at a fairly young age. Did my parents yell at me and forbid me to read any more? No. They took the opportunity to have a discussion with me about what I had read and why it might not be the most appropriate reading material for me to be reading it at that time in my life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 92
  • Created
  • Last Reply

When I was 11 or so, the novel "Up the Down Staircase" came out. It was a "raw, uncompromising" look at life in an inner-city school of the '60s (and would be quite tame by today's standards). All the girls in my class were reading it, but my mom said it wasn't appropriate for me. Of course I read it anyway--and all the parts my mom worried about went right over my head. (I thought "getting the clap" meant being put in jail, for instance.)

Several years ago, Katherine Patterson's kids' novel "The Great Gilly Hopkins" came under attack because the title character, a sad, angry foster child, used the n-word, cussed, and said negative things about religion. (Its detractors seemed oblivious to the fact that Gilly gradually became more thoughtful and well-adjusted under the influence of her foster mother.)

My sister read "Gilly" with the students in her fifth-grade class, and they discussed why some people might object to the book.

Not long after that, Katherine Patterson gave a talk in our town. I asked her how it felt to have her books excite such controversy, and she actually teared up. She told us how thankful she was for all the brave teachers who discussed such important topics with their students. She emphasized that reading about difficult emotional topics can better prepare kids to deal with adversity when it does happen. She used her "Bridge to Terabithia"--in which a child deals with the death of his friend--as an example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, paganbaby said:

Years ago, someone wrote Stephen King berating him because a TV adaptation of "Salem's Lot" scared his child. King replied that his own children hadn't been scared because they hadn't been allowed to watch. They were too young, so King did the responsible thing and policed their viewing.

I never got into "X-Files" mostly because I couldn't watch it with little kids around, and at that point in my life there always seemed to be at least one little kid around.

Parenting is sometimes about you policing what your kid sees and reads until they're old enough to make their own decisions, not about removing that stuff from the rest of the world.

That "Salem's Lot" scared me, and I was in my twenties and had read the book. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Properly educate your child on their bodies with proper verbiage. Does saying p—- or v—– embarrass you? My suggestion is to get over it and get over it fast. Giving correct bodily names inhibits an abuser to keep a victim quiet if an incident should occur.

Hm so the correct verbiage is p---- and v----? She is completely over it and unembarrassed about using those words?

Perhaps her readers' net nannies would censure her page if someone said penis. Penis! PENIS! Vagina!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Kate11 said:

Heaven forbid, kids read books about things that are actually relevant to their lives and the world in which they live. My parents never told me what I could and could not read. With that being said, I was weirdly responsible as a child and I knew which books would scare me so I would purposely not read them. This policy did however lead to me readying a Nicholas Sparks book at a fairly young age. Did my parents yell at me and forbid me to read any more? No. They took the opportunity to have a discussion with me about what I had read and why it might not be the most appropriate reading material for me to be reading it at that time in my life.

I was a voracious, constant reader as a child, who exercised zero discernment when it came to what I would read.  If it was there, I read it.  Until I was in my mid 20s I would finish any book I started, even if I wasn't enjoying it.  There were a great many books I shouldn't have been reading at the time I read them, ones I didn't understand, ones that were too scary (I used to lock them in the mudroom closet at night so they couldn't get me), or too graphic.  But I don't regret a single one.  Each one was an experience and so many taught me something.  When I was alone or confused they were there for me.  They were often my friends.  When my real life was a horror, reading a distressing book in which the main character came through it okay was a lifeline.

We didn't have a television and watched only pre-approved movies (although they ranged from various Disney films to things like Stand By Me and Alien).   But books had no rules and we never had to ask permission.  We went to the library at least once a week and our house was filled with overflowing bookcases.  Amongst the probably thousands of secular books there were some terrifying religious books (I vividly remember one titled HELL in all caps, like 600 pages detailing the visions of saints and clergy), and there were things my mother would have preferred we read over others, but she never censored our choices - sometimes I think she should have been paying a bit more attention, like when a 12 year old was reading Flowers In The Attic, or talked to us about some of them, but I don't think it hurt us.  Her only "rule" was to ask us to never read Communion, since it disturbed her so much when she read it.  Her own mother had beat her with a copy of Rosemary's Baby when she found my mother reading it as a teen, and I think that was at the heart of my otherwise strict mother's openness in this area.  She didn't want her children to feel like that or to teach us that books could be bad, or that we were bad for reading them. 

Anyway, this woman makes me feel intensely sad and sorry both for her and other parents like her, and for their children.  A child isn't going to become gay if they read about homosexuality, but they may realize they aren't alone, and aren't a monster - but I suspect that's exactly what some of these mothers fear.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the first time I hear of anything like that. I can't think of anything less controversial than a library. I mean all the parents I know will leap at any book their offsprings will want to read.

From the age of 7 to 16 I was a "strong reader" faring between 3 to 9 books per week and the library was my weekly pilgrimage. My mother is what I consider a fundie lite Catholic but she never bothered checking the appropriateness of my readings. I very much exploited her lack of a deep knowledge of literature as well as the general consensus that books and culture are a good thing. Now I can say that many thing I wasn't prepared to understand went way over my head. In some other cases (ie Henry Miller) I closed the book horrified after three pages (I was 13 and very very disgusted) and never went back. The funny thing is that it wasn't a library book but it was my mother's.  I am absolutely sure she never read it, she must have bought it when it was trendy and she was in her twenties,  then she forgot about it. I remember I found it along her complete collections of Hemingway and Hesse works. I am sure she read only Siddhartha, because it was the only one she questioned me about, it was too heretic and un-Catholic for her taste :my_rolleyes:.

Now, as a mother, as soon as my daughter will start reading on her own I'll make some books disappear from the shelves until she will be able to face them, not many, only the bordering-on-morbid ones. As for all the others I plan to be there with her, answering to any question, offering some advice and mostly enjoying the reading together. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I guess her kids should just stick to reading the good ol', wholesome Bible, with all the rape, war, murder, incest, and erotica. Oh, and the talking donkey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another voracious reader who had no rules here (also my parents didn't really pay much attention to the books), and I do things a little differently with my own child.  But I also read through a lot of the stuff she's reading, so I know what's in it, and we read together at night, some classic stuff.  We read Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret and actually TALKED about stuff in it, with a lot of explaining.

I'm sure eventually she'll start sneaking books off the shelf like I did (how I got started on romance novels).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Iamhispurity,  I picked Little Lord Fauntleroy out her list of worthwhile books just because I figure it as 19th or maybe early 20th century literature and it was one book on the list I recalled.  Many children's books of that vintage are a tough row to hoe for today's kids.  Actually that tends to be true of 19th century (and earlier)  books for adults as well.  The writing style is more complex or something than much of contemporary literature.  That said I love Jane Austin and Charles Dickens and I loved Silas Marner when we read this in 9th grade.  (meant to send this yesterday or the day before)

@Hane,  I read Up the Down Staircase maybe when I was in junior high or early high school.  I do remember that there was one student that died of an illegal self-induced abortion.  It was just noted in the morning memos sent out to the teachers.

@AmazonGrace,  that squeamishness over penis and vagina reminds me of this:

Here is the entire classic episode:

 Square Peg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In real life, I'm a degreed library professional (well, I have a MLIS, but it's almost impossible to find a library job, so I guess I'm not really a professional), and this mom is true that most librarians do tend to lean to the left. I think that's because the values of librarianship tend not to be attractive to conservatives, like the idea of free access to knowledge, the importance of learning for learning's sake, and anti-censorship. Many public librarians feel like they are doing social justice work by virtue of their profession, which many conservatives would also find distasteful. There are a lot of ethical issues involved in being a librarian, especially in a public library setting, that would be difficult to solve even without a fundie mindset. What do you do if a teen with Down's Syndrome wants sex education material without the knowledge of his or her guardian? How should you handle homeless people in the library? What if a neo-Nazi group wants to hold meetings in the library? Ethically speaking, the first question is the easiest, since it's assumed that all people should have the right to information, even if their parents might object. The issues of homeless people and unpopular community groups is much more complicated and different library systems have different rules. To go back to the issue of "offensive" books, many people simply steal books they find offensive so no one can read them. Unsurprisingly, the KJV Bible, "The Joy of Sex," the SI Swimsuit edition, and the Guinness Book of World Records tend to be the most stolen items, as are anything to do with the occult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ex-Creationist said:

Well, I guess her kids should just stick to reading the good ol', wholesome Bible, with all the rape, war, murder, incest, and erotica. Oh, and the talking donkey.

I've thought of this while reading through this thread.  While browsing in a bookstore a couple decades ago, I ran across a large cartoon book which depicted what was really happening in the Bible stories in graphic detail.  Cain versus Abel--it showed all the gruesome bloody details.  Rape--yep, in all its horror.  Hacking (and not in the computer sense)--yep.  Stoning, crucifixion, drowning a planet...  This book really made me stop and think about what these glossed-over Bible stories really depict.  I should have purchased it, but it scared me.  (I wonder if it had the talking donkey?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My parents heavily restricted the fiction books we were allowed to read.  Many times I had to complete an alternate assignment in English or History class because I had to read a non-fiction account of the subject.  But it ultimately backfired- my parents always explained that fiction books were made up and filled with lies but that non-fiction books were the truth.  So when I started questioning their elitist evangelical worldview I checked out books on the subject and realized that they were really brainwashed in a lot of ways.  

Years later- I did go back and read a lot of the "forbidden books" and they became some of my favorites- Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry, Number the Stars and Island of the Blue Dolphins are a few I remember reading.  I know they have never read those books so how could they even object except that their pastor handed down a declaration on banning fiction.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

My parents heavily restricted the fiction books we were allowed to read.  Many times I had to complete an alternate assignment in English or History class because I had to read a non-fiction account of the subject.  But it ultimately backfired- my parents always explained that fiction books were made up and filled with lies but that non-fiction books were the truth.  So when I started questioning their elitist evangelical worldview I checked out books on the subject and realized that they were really brainwashed in a lot of ways.  

Years later- I did go back and read a lot of the "forbidden books" and they became some of my favorites- Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry, Number the Stars and Island of the Blue Dolphins are a few I remember reading.  I know they have never read those books so how could they even object except that their pastor handed down a declaration on banning fiction.  

Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry, Number the Stars and Island of the Blue Dolphins all deal with issues of bigotry in varying degrees, which is something that white fundies are loath to discuss (I'm assuming you're white @TXGirlInAMaterialWorld, so please correct me if I'm wrong). Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry in particular is a very realistic and unsentimental look at racism in Jim Crow Mississippi, and I remember that even a lot of the white kids in my super liberal private school were discomforted by that book. Given how many white fundies still think Gone with the Wind is a documentary, they aren't going want their children to read Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Her list actually gave me new books to try. So, I thank her.

Another reader when whose aunt left Scruples behind during a visit, read it at age 12ish and was hooked. Completely inappropriate, sure. But it did teach me that women could want sex and it was all right to demand it. Plus, it made me never want to go to Katherine Gibbs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/18/2016 at 11:51 AM, elliha said:

There are clear homo-erotic elements in Moby Dick in my view, that book seems to be OK though... 

Plus, dick. How they allow that kind of smut in a library these days, I have no idea.

On 5/18/2016 at 0:01 PM, Ungodly Grandma said:

The Little Princess and Anne of Green Gables, A Wrinkle in Time, Beverly Cleary, Edward Eager,the Little House books, on and on.

I don't know about The Little Princess, Anne of Green Gables, or the others here, but A Wrinkle in Time has frequently been on the ALA's "Most Challenged Book" list because it mentions Jesus in a sentence along with several other "philosophers," and the pearl-clutchers think this "challenges the Christian worldview."

Quote

"Who have our fighters been?" Calvin asked.

"Oh, you must know them, dear," Mrs. Whatsit said.

Mrs. Who's spectacles shone out at them triumphantly, "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

"Jesus!" Charles Wallace said. "Why of course, Jesus!"

"Of course!" Mrs. Whatsit said. "Go on, Charles, love. There were others. All your great artists. They've been lights for us to see by."

"Leonardo da Vinci?" Calvin suggested tentatively. "And Michelangelo?"

"And Shakespeare," Charles Wallace called out, "and Bach! And Pasteur and Madame Curie and Einstein!"

Now Calvin's voice rang with confidence. "And Schweitzer and Gandhi and Buddha and Beethoven and Rembrandt and St. Francis!"

"Now you, Meg," Mrs. Whatsit ordered.

"Oh, Euclid, I suppose." Meg was in such an agony of impatience that her voice grated irritably. "And Copernicus."

Why do they think their worldview can't be challenged? And I'm not exactly sure how the above quotation particularly challenges that. Jesus is rightfully mentioned in a list of other figures who have been highly influential on Western culture.

And the author is an avowed and devout Episcopalian. Guess that's too close to Popery for some of these fundies. :pb_rollseyes:

I'm just so tired of these types thinking they have *the right to the culture* and that their beliefs are sacrosanct and can never be examined, questioned, or criticized.

You know what? It's called free speech, motherfuckers. Look it up sometime. Monitor your own damned kids and stop worrying about forcing your narrow views on everyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

Years later- I did go back and read a lot of the "forbidden books" and they became some of my favorites- Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry, Number the Stars and Island of the Blue Dolphins are a few I remember reading.  I know they have never read those books so how could they even object except that their pastor handed down a declaration on banning fiction.  

I love these two books growing up!

I occasionally still re-read Number the Stars, and I made sure both of my younger sisters had copies to read, I even convinced my mother to read it after I finished it the first time in grade school!

The author's afterword, talking about how the cocaine laced rabbits blood on the fisherman's handkerchief being a real life thing, made me do some research. That research led to reading a book about the underground railroad during and how the slaves used cayenne to fool the dogs that were set after them when they ran away, which sparked an interest in all things civil war....and now I'm starting see why many fundie families disapprove of fiction. It's a slippery slope to curiosity, and critical thinking! :evil-laugh:

 

All kidding aside, I cried when I read Number the Stars in grade school, and even now in my early 30's I will get a little misty when I'm re-reading it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@EyeQueue, Madeleine L'Engle was the guest speaker at our local Episcopal church some years ago. I think she may even have led a retreat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, rosethorne said:

All kidding aside, I cried when I read Number the Stars in grade school, and even now in my early 30's I will get a little misty when I'm re-reading it.

I am actually too old to have read this as a child (it was published in 1989, the year I graduated HS), and actually had not heard of it...until I was volunteering in my daughter's elementary school library once a week and just happened to find it on the shelf and I checked it out and read it.

So, yeah. Libraries for all! :)

@PennySycamore: Lucky! I would have loved to hear her speak. I devoured those books as a child.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading has always been my escape. It's one of the things I consider myself to be truly addicted to (the other things being music, and food) but I revel in my addiction. I (metaphorically) roll around in it, like Demi Moore in the money in that one movie with Woody Haralson.

Once we were doing a guided reading in our combined History/English class when I was in 7th grade. We were reading the graphic novel editions of MAUS and MAUS II.

Because the teacher seemed to be clued in on my addiction, she let everyone else keep their books, but she took mine, at the end of class every day so I wouldn't read ahead.

She wanted me to "be in the same moment as the rest of the class" when we did the post chapter discussions.

I was (and still am) rather contrary and resistant to being told not do things I enjoy; so I went around her by going to the public library and checking it out, since she had all the copies from our school library. I still do not regret disobeying her. Those books, especially in graphically illustrated format, are POWERFUL. So while finished both before everyone else, I still continued to read with the class, because they were worth reading again.

It was also nice to have people to discuss the material with!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On May 18, 2016 at 6:20 PM, bjr70 said:

I'm working on a masters in Library Information Science at the moment, and this is drilled into you in every class. Librarians are taught how to deal with people like this and that our defense of the first amendment and providing access to information is essential to a free society. The ALA does stellar work on this.

Have none of these people realized that the minute you try to ban a book it becomes the book everyone wants to read?

Hey, it worked in Harry Potter!

(Umbridge banned "The Quibbler" after Harry gave an interview saying Voldemort was back, but that just made EVERY Hogwarts student read it)!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, EyeQueue said:

Plus, dick. How they allow that kind of smut in a library these days, I have no idea.

I don't know about The Little Princess, Anne of Green Gables, or the others here, but A Wrinkle in Time has frequently been on the ALA's "Most Challenged Book" list because it mentions Jesus in a sentence along with several other "philosophers," and the pearl-clutchers think this "challenges the Christian worldview."

Why do they think their worldview can't be challenged? And I'm not exactly sure how the above quotation particularly challenges that. Jesus is rightfully mentioned in a list of other figures who have been highly influential on Western culture.

And the author is an avowed and devout Episcopalian. Guess that's too close to Popery for some of these fundies. :pb_rollseyes:

I'm just so tired of these types thinking they have *the right to the culture* and that their beliefs are sacrosanct and can never be examined, questioned, or criticized.

You know what? It's called free speech, motherfuckers. Look it up sometime. Monitor your own damned kids and stop worrying about forcing your narrow views on everyone else.

A Wrinkle in Time is one of my all time favorite books!!! Along with most other books that have been mentioned in this post. A Little Princess (so much better than the movie, which is saying a lot because the movie is amazing), The Secret Garden, Number the Stars and pretty much any book written by Lois Lowry. She came and did a presentation through the library in my town. I had to stand in line for 2 hours to get her to sign my copy of The Giver, so worth it! Reading is one thing in life that I'm super passionate about, I could probably sit around all day discussing quality children's/ young adult literature and be perfectly content!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YA Librarian here! 

When I saw this post title, I thought it was about Megan Fox, the lady who is in a constant battle with her library and did that video about going to the science museum and saying fossils are lies.  

The thing is, the library isn't there to parent your child. Just because a book is in the library doesn't mean its appropriate or should be read by everyone. If a parent only wants their child to read clean reads, thats on them, but we aren't going to make our choices based on that. You need to be active in those choices. I tell parents to go to Common Sense Media because it tracks both offensive things, positive things, and messages such as consumerism and violence. Its also not religious like plugged in and empowers children to give their voices in what they think is appropriate.

One of my favorite library "things" is S.R. Ranganathan's 5 Laws of Library Science. Number 2 is "Every reader his / her book" and 3 is "Every book its reader." IE, not everything exists for everyone. If you don't like it, don't read it. There is something for you. It doesn't mean this other thing is bad, it just isn't for you. 

12 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

In real life, I'm a degreed library professional (well, I have a MLIS, but it's almost impossible to find a library job, so I guess I'm not really a professional), and this mom is true that most librarians do tend to lean to the left. I think that's because the values of librarianship tend not to be attractive to conservatives, like the idea of free access to knowledge, the importance of learning for learning's sake, and anti-censorship. Many public librarians feel like they are doing social justice work by virtue of their profession, which many conservatives would also find distasteful. There are a lot of ethical issues involved in being a librarian, especially in a public library setting, that would be difficult to solve even without a fundie mindset. What do you do if a teen with Down's Syndrome wants sex education material without the knowledge of his or her guardian? How should you handle homeless people in the library? What if a neo-Nazi group wants to hold meetings in the library? Ethically speaking, the first question is the easiest, since it's assumed that all people should have the right to information, even if their parents might object. The issues of homeless people and unpopular community groups is much more complicated and different library systems have different rules. To go back to the issue of "offensive" books, many people simply steal books they find offensive so no one can read them. Unsurprisingly, the KJV Bible, "The Joy of Sex," the SI Swimsuit edition, and the Guinness Book of World Records tend to be the most stolen items, as are anything to do with the occult.

Not to mention, public libraries are funded by tax dollars and are a public service. Conservatives don't necessarily like that whole public institution that betters the entire community thing.

As for stolen materials, every library I have been at has had a problem with the Child Called It series disappearing for whatever reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

I've thought of this while reading through this thread.  While browsing in a bookstore a couple decades ago, I ran across a large cartoon book which depicted what was really happening in the Bible stories in graphic detail.  Cain versus Abel--it showed all the gruesome bloody details.  Rape--yep, in all its horror.  Hacking (and not in the computer sense)--yep.  Stoning, crucifixion, drowning a planet...  This book really made me stop and think about what these glossed-over Bible stories really depict.  I should have purchased it, but it scared me.  (I wonder if it had the talking donkey?)

Reminds me of http://www.thebricktestament.com 

It's a fair amount of the Bible illustrated with LEGO(tm), complete with content warnings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another Madeleine L'Engle fan here!  I recently found a folder of papers from middle school and most of my book reports were done on her books.  The bit quoted above that "challenges" the Christian worldview...come on.  Jesus is their first guess.  They're just looking for things to complain about so they can feel persecuted.

I remember there being a fuss in my public school at one point over Susan Cooper's Silver on the Tree series.  It "promoted witchcraft".  It remained in the library, and one of my favorites.  The fussy parents were apparently unaware of the huge VC Andrews and Stephen King collections in the same library.  I read Andrews because all the other girls were and they had that forbidden fruit thing going on, and have been a fan of King ever since (though his most recent offerings aren't doing it for me).

I also loved Lloyd Alexander at that age, Mary Stewart, Lois Duncan, John Bellairs (scarier than King!  and those Edward Gorey covers!), Christopher Pike (so trashy, so good), as well as Charles Dickens (the trashy goodness of its day), Jane Austen, Louisa May Alcott, TH White, and Frances Hodgson Burnett.  I remember a homeroom teacher being baffled that I had both Wuthering Heights and a Babysitter's Club Super Special in my bag at the same time.  Why limit yourself? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, artdecades said:

Ranganathan's 5 Laws of Library Science. Number 2 is "Every reader his / her book" and 3 is "Every book its reader." IE, not everything exists for everyone. If you don't like it, don't read it. There is something for you. It doesn't mean this other thing is bad, it just isn't for you. 

You reminded me of this

Screenshot_2016-05-20-11-08-38.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.