Escaping Polygamy - Mainly Kingston Clan - Otherwise Known as "The Order"

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Happy update: according to her Facebook, Lizzy is reunited with her daughter. She lists her status as single. They're still wearing plyg clothes. She could still have flds beliefs but have joined one of the splinter groups. I don't see how she could be in a state of repentance if she's using the Internet. Give them a few months and they will all be in jeans.

https://m.facebook.com/elizabeth.holm.391

[SilverBeach]

I don't have FB. The end of tonights episode had Lizzie returning to the compound with all the children. If she made it out with Julie too, that is great!

[MarblesMom]

When Julie was resisting in the van, I thought, she is a teen and will argue.  Tell her WHY we are doing this and move on.

My biggest fear was them settling into the hotel and Julie bolting solo in the middle of the night.

Knowing there are still more "trapped" in this lifestyle with no out.... makes me crazy.

[Diana]

Jus something i noticed, the girls from the FLDS that appear on the show all wear this same hairdo, like a loose braid, but i had seen older pictures from flds members where they all wear this updos with a high front. Their fashion just changed over the years or is this something the church or jeffs commands to them like how to dress? 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Diana

[DaisyD]

That wave in the front is still popular from what I can tell, but it takes a lot of effort and, not needing to attract men right now, I'm guessing it's not worth the effort lately. 

[luv2laugh]

I found their mom, Shirley's GoFundMe.  It seems her and her younger daughters escaped https://www.gofundme.com/2vt3425w 

[mstee]

On August 15, 2016 at 0:43 AM, NotALoserLikeYou said:

Happy update: according to her Facebook, Lizzy is reunited with her daughter. She lists her status as single. They're still wearing plyg clothes. She could still have flds beliefs but have joined one of the splinter groups. I don't see how she could be in a state of repentance if she's using the Internet. Give them a few months and they will all be in jeans.

https://m.facebook.com/elizabeth.holm.391

She lists her current residence as Hurricane, UT, which is the nearest city to Colorado City/ Hilldale. It's not right next to the FLDS cities (20 ish minute drive), and is mostly mainstream Mormon. So that's very hopeful for her. It was so weird to hear that "keep sweet" voice so ingrained in a person. I wonder what her voice would sound like without being trained to keep it so quiet and meek. She didn't seem to want to leave the FLDS necessarily; rather she seemed to want her children together and knew the only way that would happen was outside the FLDS. It's great to see that her daughter has come around. 

[Howl]

On 5/15/2016 at 7:06 PM, daisyd681 said:

Along the lines of strange practices is the "Law of Satisfaction" in which righteous men are given a number. The leader is Brother #1, his right hand man is Brother #2, and so on. Brother #8's first wife will be 81. Her first male child will be 811, her first female child will be 812. Male children get odd numbers, females get even. Brother #8's second wife will be 82, and her children will be 821, 822,... These numbers follow them to the grave.

This woman was the first wife of Brother #22.

Other than being totally dehumanizing, it shows the organization capabilities of these people. I don't know about you all, but I prefer my psycho cult leaders as nonsensical ramblers. This kind of psychopathic analytical thinking is scarier.

Well, there is a certain twisted logic, when you are trying to keep track of the relationships in this situation.  Otherwise, impossible to keep track of who's who, even in one family.  

But, holy crap, this clan isn't a rabbit hole, it's an entire underground world of mole people. 

 

[Diana]

On 15/8/2016 at 6:43 AM, NotALoserLikeYou said:

Happy update: according to her Facebook, Lizzy is reunited with her daughter. She lists her status as single. They're still wearing plyg clothes. She could still have flds beliefs but have joined one of the splinter groups. I don't see how she could be in a state of repentance if she's using the Internet. Give them a few months and they will all be in jeans.

https://m.facebook.com/elizabeth.holm.391

Thanks for posting this! i watched this episode today and im so happy they are together. The girl was probably just scared and needed more time to understand the situation, im sure she loves her mother that raised her until she was 10 even if they brainwashed her to believe she was unworthy.

[SilverBeach]

http://tvruckus.com/2016/08/15/escaping-polygamy-a-sad-no-win-situation-ends-predictably-for-flds-mom-lizzy/

Summary of Sunday's episode. A comment was made that maybe the crew should not have contacted Lizzie since Lizzie did not directly ask for help. What do you all think?

 

[Diana]

13 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

http://tvruckus.com/2016/08/15/escaping-polygamy-a-sad-no-win-situation-ends-predictably-for-flds-mom-lizzy/

Summary of Sunday's episode. A comment was made that maybe the crew should not have contacted Lizzie since Lizzie did not directly ask for help. What do you all think?

 

I think that was obviously staged. They were probably in touch with her already, but they pretended it was a friend asking for help and then they just doing spy work and finding her. I dont know if to make the show more interesting or as a way to protect Lizzy, like this way the people on her sect wouldnt know she had access to a phone and requested the help herself.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Diana

[faraway]

I'm not sure how much was staged, but I had a bad feeling about Lizzy driving off with all the kids on a whim. Maybe it would have been better if she would have left with her 3 other children and went to court for custody for all of them. In that case professionals would be involved to help the family find back together and Julie would have received counselling.

I don't think the girls on the show are equipped for all the stages of broken people that might come out of these cults.

 

[OyToTheVey]

59 minutes ago, faraway said:

I'm not sure how much was staged, but I had a bad feeling about Lizzy driving off with all the kids on a whim. Maybe it would have been better if she would have left with her 3 other children and went to court for custody for all of them. In that case professionals would be involved to help the family find back together and Julie would have received counselling.

I don't think the girls on the show are equipped for all the stages of broken people that might come out of these cults.

 

I think the girls are used to the Kingston way. Where the people are surrounded by 'outsiders' but still have some contact with them. FLDS is completely different. These girls are within walls. They have no outside contact at all. I feel like to deal with that they would need professional counseling help. They might be able to help them out but they can't actually help them out of their ways. 

[Angelic83]

That's the vibe I'm getting from the show and what I read on the interweb. The girls mean good but the people who escape from the FLDS need a lot more help then the people from the Kingston group. Both need some professional help at some point...

But the girls are at least trying to help, and that's a lot more then a lot of people do.

[Diana]

Shouldnt the professional help be given by the goverment? i mean i get why police can not do anything unless people doesnt call them, but after they are out and obviously need a place to live and support, there is no social services or something that can offer help?

[faraway]

10 hours ago, Angelic83 said:

But the girls are at least trying to help, and that's a lot more then a lot of people do.

That is true, but in some cases they can potentialy cause more harm then good. I'm a little concered they might try to get people out quickly so there's material for the episodes.

[seattlechic]

On 8/12/2016 at 6:35 PM, quiversR4hunting said:

They are locked for me too unless I put in my cable email address and password. I can't find another legitimate site that has them without a subscription.

Ditto here. Sadness. 

[OyToTheVey]

Not to be devils advocate but they might have no choice but to get those people out quickly. There's cameras and FLDS is known to move people very quickly over night and they're never found again. They hide them in their compounds all over the country. And I'm sure the government only knows of 50% of those compounds because they're not all the size of Zion Ranch.

[Imrlgoddess]

On 8/15/2016 at 4:17 PM, Diana said:

Jus something i noticed, the girls from the FLDS that appear on the show all wear this same hairdo, like a loose braid, but i had seen older pictures from flds members where they all wear this updos with a high front. Their fashion just changed over the years or is this something the church or jeffs commands to them like how to dress? 

I stumbled on these a little while back, the hairdo's are to specifically done to shape the head/face into an oval.  I've seen "the perfect oval" referenced in other fundie realms, like the Independent Baptists and the strict Pentecostals.  Before now I never understood the reasoning behind the hairstyle.  These videos are pretty informative!! 

https://youtu.be/BPFMD-X6CQ4

 

[Exjw2015deed]

I love that free jinger has a forum on weird things I research and watch that no one I know has heard of.

With this show I can't help but think the producers offer the escapees some sort of money or incentive. If I was sincerely escaping a cult so harrowing I would not want it on camera, in fear that it could potentially make it harder for others to escape in the same manner.

That tumblr page shows how horrifyingly deep this rabbit hole is. I wish I lived in the area and would offer up a bedroom to escapees to help them get on their feet.

[quiversR4hunting]

Anyone watch on Sunday?

So one of the girls they helped earlier in the season went back and got married. I wonder when she will run again, I assume at some point everything that made her run the first time will make her run again.

One of the half(?) brothers of Andrea was called into a meeting with Daniel. Thankfully (as of air time) he didn't take the bait and go back. I hope his brothers see that the brother that left is making it on the outside.

The sisters that left the FLDS- oh boy. The one is still a true believer. Oh wow. I wonder what will make her see the light. The difference between the FLDS and the Kingston Clan are striking and very evident. The critical thinking skills seem to be completely gone with more of the FLDS people.

As always, the keep sweet voice is so creepy.

[OyToTheVey]

14 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Anyone watch on Sunday?

So one of the girls they helped earlier in the season went back and got married. I wonder when she will run again, I assume at some point everything that made her run the first time will make her run again.

One of the half(?) brothers of Andrea was called into a meeting with Daniel. Thankfully (as of air time) he didn't take the bait and go back. I hope his brothers see that the brother that left is making it on the outside.

The sisters that left the FLDS- oh boy. The one is still a true believer. Oh wow. I wonder what will make her see the light. The difference between the FLDS and the Kingston Clan are striking and very evident. The critical thinking skills seem to be completely gone with more of the FLDS people.

As always, the keep sweet voice is so creepy.

OMG That keep sweet voice gives me the heebie geebies! It's just so weird to hear someone talk as if there's no emotion at all. Vanna/Ariel are still so indoctrinated. It's going to take years. Maybe they should talk to Rachel Jeffs. Rachel is amazing. So strong. She can open their eyes.

 

I can't imagine having 150 siblings and helping your full sister get out and then she's talked back in. I'm guessing she only ran away because she wanted to marry that guy and Daniel wouldn't approve. But when he did, she came running back. She's now legally married because she's the first wife and it'll be harder for her to get out again.

[Diana]

2 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

OMG That keep sweet voice gives me the heebie geebies! It's just so weird to hear someone talk as if there's no emotion at all. Vanna/Ariel are still so indoctrinated. It's going to take years. Maybe they should talk to Rachel Jeffs. Rachel is amazing. So strong. She can open their eyes.

 

I can't imagine having 150 siblings and helping your full sister get out and then she's talked back in. I'm guessing she only ran away because she wanted to marry that guy and Daniel wouldn't approve. But when he did, she came running back. She's now legally married because she's the first wife and it'll be harder for her to get out again.

I'm thinking in the future when her husband gets a second or a third wife, that is going to be hard for her since she is so in love, but i guess it depends how the guy behaves(like if he gets bored of her or becomes abusive like many of those husbands are)it would push her to run away again.

I guess some people inside there are content because its all they know and they are so brainwashed that see all as normal, most of the people running away have stories of abuse that pushed them to question their beliefs, or even pushed them to run away even if they still believe in the profet like Vanna and Ariel, i doubt they would had runned away if not because their family was separated and destroyed and they were forbidden to have families of their own. 

 

[SilverBeach]

Daniel Kingston is married to two of his half sisters. 

Rachel Jeffs is indeed amazing. 

The one who went back to marry her first cousin did so because she really loved him. At least she got to pick, but I don't get marrying your first cousin either.

The keep sweet voice, ugh, such a turnoff. When Meechelle Duggar does it I want to slap her. These women I feel sorry for.

 

[Diana]

4 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Daniel Kingston is married to two of his half sisters. 

Rachel Jeffs is indeed amazing. 

The one who went back to marry her first cousin did so because she really loved him. At least she got to pick, but I don't get marrying your first cousin either.

The keep sweet voice, ugh, such a turnoff. When Meechelle Duggar does it I want to slap her. These women I feel sorry for.

 

Marrying a cousin is not something that abnormal it used to be very common until 100 years ago and it still happens with normal people not growing up in sects. I guess its weirder because in that family there is so much imbreeding already that its more likely they will pass a genetic disease on to their kids, but since they live in a closed comunity where everybody is related two cousins falling in love its not that hard to understand.