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DaisyD

Escaping Polygamy - Mainly Kingston Clan - Otherwise Known as "The Order"

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DaisyD
4 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Given that the Kingstons practice full and half sibling marriage, I would think that genetic abnormalities would start showing up quite soon. Aside from breaking the incest taboo, I just don't see how the Kingstons can look at all these horribly disabled children and conclude that their "seed" is super special and holy. It boggles the mind.

And then tell everyone that Ramen noodles cause genetic defects. :pb_eek:

One of those articles talked about a woman that married her half brother. They had the same father and both of their mothers were her father's nieces. I don't even know what they'd be to each other in that scenario. 

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Wizard of Quivers
5 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I just don't see how the Kingstons can look at all these horribly disabled children and conclude that their "seed" is super special and holy. It boggles the mind.

I suppose it just boils down to generations of indoctrination and lack of an actual education. I wouldn't be surprised if they believed that the disabled children within their clan were a punishment from God for some preceived sins that still exist within their ranks, or some other sort of BS. Yes all of that, or the prevalent severe mental handicaps have already taken a foot hold.  

5 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

And then tell everyone that Ramen noodles cause genetic defects. :pb_eek:

Ramen noodles, the sin that takes down dynasties. Who knew?

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Cleopatra7
1 hour ago, daisyd681 said:

And then tell everyone that Ramen noodles cause genetic defects. :pb_eek:

One of those articles talked about a woman that married her half brother. They had the same father and both of their mothers were her father's nieces. I don't even know what they'd be to each other in that scenario. 

Since it seems like each wife has her own separate household, it's possible for half-siblings to not only have not been raised with their other siblings as siblings, but to not even know that their siblings are related to them at all until the time comes for marriage. The scene in the Rolling Stone piece where the boy only saw his father once at the gym from afar suggests that family life in the Kingston clan is very strained, even without the incest. It sounds like the higher up men don't even try to be fathers to their gigantic broods and they are all just numbers in a spreadsheet.

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Angelic83
19 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Since it seems like each wife has her own separate household, it's possible for half-siblings to not only have not been raised with their other siblings as siblings, but to not even know that their siblings are related to them at all until the time comes for marriage. The scene in the Rolling Stone piece where the boy only saw his father once at the gym from afar suggests that family life in the Kingston clan is very strained, even without the incest. It sounds like the higher up men don't even try to be fathers to their gigantic broods and they are all just numbers in a spreadsheet.

Because of this it is speculated that the wives could ask for assistance from the government. Because they would look like single moms but of course the where not. I found it heartbreaking to watch the escaping polgamy series looking at the circumstances some of these women have to live...

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Chicken bones

It boggles my mind that Kollene and Co made it on Sister Wives. But then again, that's TLC...make a "meaningful" storyline while totally skirting the evil truths of the reality.

It sounds like there's a number of ranches, homes, etc that wives and kids are moved around between too, depending on their standing at any one time. That also would make knowing one's siblings harder. I recall in Escaping Polygamy the young women were trying to piece together who was from what father. I wonder if there's an actual master chart of this with the leaders? Who knows. 

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Thorns

How soon it all implodes with regard to inbreeding will depend on how the gene pool was to start with. Large and fairly healthy gene pool (small number of genetic diseases), and "smart" interbreeding, it might take a while. Smal gene pool with/without genetic diseases, combined with little regard for who you marry and problems will soon crop up. 

However, unless the inbreeding affects the ability to reproduce, the generations will keep on coming. When they reproduce young you might not have fully seen the affect your genetic makeup have on you, so genetic diseases are brought on to the next generation. 

One example of this is Huntingtons disease, which manifests in adulthood. Finding out that an in-law had symptoms of the disease was actually an valid reason for divorce in parts of Norway in the olden days. 

For the Kingstons, who I belive descend from four families, I would guess the effects are already felt. 

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sockinshoe
4 hours ago, Thorns said:

How soon it all implodes with regard to inbreeding will depend on how the gene pool was to start with. Large and fairly healthy gene pool (small number of genetic diseases), and "smart" interbreeding, it might take a while. Smal gene pool with/without genetic diseases, combined with little regard for who you marry and problems will soon crop up. 

However, unless the inbreeding affects the ability to reproduce, the generations will keep on coming. When they reproduce young you might not have fully seen the affect your genetic makeup have on you, so genetic diseases are brought on to the next generation. 

One example of this is Huntingtons disease, which manifests in adulthood. Finding out that an in-law had symptoms of the disease was actually an valid reason for divorce in parts of Norway in the olden days. 

For the Kingstons, who I belive descend from four families, I would guess the effects are already felt. 

That's the problem when you live in small, insular communities and mandate plural marriage: you run out of women. It's such a terrible, sad situation. I can't believe they'd be such idiots as to not give the inbreeding like 30 seconds thought all those years ago. All of these cults (of all flavours) are going to inevitably die out because their own tenets shoot them in the foot. Hoisted by their own petards. If only it weren't so dreadful.

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Cleopatra7

This is the Kingston clan's justification of incest from the group's Wikipedia page (citations come from "God's Brothel" by Andrea Moore-Emmett and some newspaper articles):

Quote

Like his brother, [John Ortell] Kingston believed he came from genetically superior ancestry and that he was a direct literal descendant of Jesus. Kingston had worked on a dairy farm owned by the co-op at Woodscross, Davis County, Utah, where he reportedly developed theories on genetics that he later decided could be used to purify his own family pedigree.[3][8] Using these theories he implemented practices which encouraged intra-family marriages of close relatives, in order to perfect his own bloodline.[3] Those marriages, if discovered, would be considered incestuous under Utah consanguinity laws.[9] Connie Rugg, one of Kingston's daughters, stated, "Ortell Kingston experimented [with] inbreeding with his cattle and then he turned to his children."[8][10]

Kingston also taught child marriage to girls just attaining puberty. Kingston and other members of the Kingston clan, having a "Pure Bloodline", had an advantage over almost any outsider in convincing teenage women, sometimes as young as fourteen, to join their bloodline as part of the polygamous family.[8][11]

 

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dianapavelovna

This site lists the wives and children of the leaders of the group. When you have 100s of half-siblings, it's easy to see how you could not know or even recognize all of them. 

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Season of life...

Genetic Sexual Attraction, GSA, is well documented and usually seen among people who were adopted and meet their birth families for the first time as adults. Since they were not raised in the family, the Westermarck Effect is not in play, and attractions between siblings or other close blood relatives can result.

If Kingston half-siblings are kept away from each other during their formative years, I wonder if GSA helps to make the knowledge that they are marrying incestously acceptable. If they have a strong attraction to their partner, possibly they may see it as a divine pairing?

I can't find socially acceptable words to describe how much this family disturbs me.

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Enraged
ADoyle90815

Another thing with the Kingston clan is they seem to not believe in seat belt laws or car seats, since several of their children have been killed. http://www.sltrib.com/news/3905840-155/child-deaths-prompt-question-do-utah

I found this when I went down the rabbit hole about this cult.

Edited by ADoyle90815

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Angelic83
On 23-5-2016 at 8:48 AM, ADoyle90815 said:

Another thing with the Kingston clan is they seem to not believe in seat belt laws or car seats, since several of their children have been killed. http://www.sltrib.com/news/3905840-155/child-deaths-prompt-question-do-utah

I found this when I went down the rabbit hole about this cult.

Don't forget helmets for motorbikes. They are protected by "God" apparently...Oh and the rabbit hole is deep for this one...so good luck and give us a call when you unearth ;)

Edited by Angelic83
added stuff

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DarkAnts

I worked for their biodiesel plant for three months. I did not know it going in and I was happy to leave. I don't want to talk about it beyond that. I don't know a lot about the group. i just want to touch on something that has not been talked about. Members are encouraged to work for clan businesses. They don't get paid in cash generally (lower members of the order at least.). They have their own money system they get paid in. They buy mostly from Kingston owned businesses because that's where their money is a accepted. They put the children to work at a young age. I worked near the ranch and saw kids out in the fields at all times dispite bad weather. They even had kids driving fifth wheel vehicles and doing other dangerous work. (I did file OSHA complaints) 

 

Thats all I wanted to say. 

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DaisyD

I totally get you being careful not to out yourself. That is a good point. I don't remember where I saw it, but there is a "If the clan doesn't sell it, you don't need it" thing going on with them. More control. 

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devoe364

It took me awhile to find it, but N3mbers did an episode that makes me think of the Kingstan Clan, Basically in the episode, it is discovered that they are using similar pricinples to cattle breeding within the family and the daughter's mother is also her half sister, who married her own father.

It's called 9 Wives. 

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withaj
1 hour ago, devoe364 said:

It took me awhile to find it, but N3mbers did an episode that makes me think of the Kingstan Clan, Basically in the episode, it is discovered that they are using similar pricinples to cattle breeding within the family and the daughter's mother is also her half sister, who married her own father.

It's called 9 Wives. 

Ooooh I binged Numb3rs a couple years ago and I had forgotten about that episode until now. Wasn't there a booby-trapped trailer and all sorts of insanity going on? Like 75 wives? It was very Warren Jeffs-y until the inbreeding aspect took things over the line, IIRC

Thankfully the Kingstons aren't as big as the FLDS. On the other hand, if they were, we might have a better chance at taking them down. There is nothing more fucked up in all of fundiedom, as far as I'm concerned.

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devoe364
37 minutes ago, withaj said:

Ooooh I binged Numb3rs a couple years ago and I had forgotten about that episode until now. Wasn't there a booby-trapped trailer and all sorts of insanity going on? Like 75 wives? It was very Warren Jeffs-y until the inbreeding aspect took things over the line, IIRC

Thankfully the Kingstons aren't as big as the FLDS. On the other hand, if they were, we might have a better chance at taking them down. There is nothing more fucked up in all of fundiedom, as far as I'm concerned.

When Numb3rs was on Netflix Canada it was my favourite show to watch. I had a hard time this morning remembering that it was Charlie not Reid (as in Spencer Reid, from Criminal Minds) who discovered the inbreeding, because his new boss (who is drinking with his father) saw the pattern in the breeding chart that reminded her of her life as a child on a dairy farm.

I never thought about the FLDS when watching this one, no prairie dresses for one thing, The lack of frumpers made me think it was about a group more like Winston Blackmores. However, once I did some reading on the Kingston clan, this episode is totally based off them,

That said, I think the Kingstons are worse then the FLDS, because they actively encourage inbreeding, whereas the FLDS just does nothing to stop it.The Kingstons are also more politically savvy and have far more clout then the FLDS does. 

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DarkAnts
On May 30, 2016 at 10:10 AM, withaj said:

Ooooh I binged Numb3rs a couple years ago and I had forgotten about that episode until now. Wasn't there a booby-trapped trailer and all sorts of insanity going on? Like 75 wives? It was very Warren Jeffs-y until the inbreeding aspect took things over the line, IIRC

Thankfully the Kingstons aren't as big as the FLDS. On the other hand, if they were, we might have a better chance at taking them down. There is nothing more fucked up in all of fundiedom, as far as I'm concerned.

The kingstons are the organizes crime group of fundie Mormons.

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Chicken bones

The only (slightly!) humorous thing I can add to this entire disturbing topic is my banner ad on this thread is for 23 & Me, the DNA testing kit.

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DarkAnts

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withaj

Ugh. I just got around to listening to the Kingston episode of the Year of Polygamy podcast. 

An ex-member reported that as a child, he and others were "toughened up" by having to decapitate a cow with chainsaw.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? The incest, abuse, and general depravity already makes them worse than most of the other groups, but this puts them on another level.

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Unimpressed
seattlechic

DAMNNNNNNNNNN.... I'm hooked. Hopelessly. *reads furiously*

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xlurker

I just finished "the Witness wore Red"  all I can say is wow.  Just like seattlechic, I am hooked

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