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DaisyD

Escaping Polygamy - Mainly Kingston Clan - Otherwise Known as "The Order"

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DaisyD

This group is a deep, dark rabbit hole. Now that we have a forum specifically for it I'd like to get it all in one place.

This article focuses on the theft of the gold, but it touches on some of the extremely disturbing practices like incest as policy, and racketeering. 

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/inside-the-order-one-mormon-cults-secret-empire-20110615?page=5

Nearly every member should have the last name of Kingston. They make up fake last names to hide the incest from the government. The Principle Tumblr page has loads of info. 

This one talks about the most recent news that one woman is being charged for her daughter's death in a car crash. The child was not restrained in the vehicle on orders from the leader to save money.

http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/post/144321136058/please-read-please-read-please-read-top

There's soooo much more. This is the Kingston Clan tag on the Tumblr page.

http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/tagged/Kingston-Clan

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Grimalkin

Reading this makes my head spin.

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FundieFarmer

The Kingstons are some nasty, nasty shit. Thanks for sharing the links. I know of them through some posts but have t really ever gone down the rabbit hole. Here's my chance!

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Gossamer1
2 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

Reading this makes my head spin.

I completely agree. These people also make me more than a little queasy.  

With all these fundie type groups it seems to always be the same thing; sex, power, money or some combination thereof. 

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theinvisiblegirl

I only recently became aware of the Kingston group through something I read in passing on FJ, and I'm glad to have these links for some further reading.

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FundieFarmer

How do the numbers work when the leaders change? It seems they'd constantly be changing? And what about when a son starts his own family...does he get a new number? I know you might not be able to answer, Daisy...just my thought!

Seeing that number on the tombstone like that...horrifying. I'd want to be remembered as so much more than #22's first wife, for a blink in time until the next #22 came along with his first wife.

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DaisyD

I assume they get a new number and thus their status in the community changes. That's my take on it. Every New Year's Eve they gather and numbers are handed out. Every person is supposed to serve a person with a lower number as they serve the Lord. 

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caszandra

It is mind boggling how inter related they all are. The first picture in this link http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/post/144321136058/please-read-please-read-please-read-top of Carolyn Dawn Kingston Kingston is like looking at Jessica Kingston who is in the Escaping Polygamy programme. I was going to ask if they were sisters but in all likely hood they are aunt, niece, sister, cousin, double cousin plus god only knows what other relationship all rolled in to one! How do you even go about trying to work out family trees with this level of incest going on? Can you ever fully know what all the relationships are? 

I have watched the Escaping Polygamy programme a few times and watched videos on You Tube but that only scratches the surface of what is going on in this group. As @Grimalkin said, it makes your head spin. Thanks for the links @daisyd681.

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Wine time!
closetcagebaby

It's wild when you read the Tumblr and they explain how someone's last name ends up being Kingston Kingston Kingston. It just makes me wonder. I suppose the Westermarck Effect doesn't really take hold in this community because they're spread out and move a lot, but damn, don't these creepy uncles have some doubts about being attracted to their close blood relatives?

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DaisyD
7 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

It's wild when you read the Tumblr and they explain how someone's last name ends up being Kingston Kingston Kingston. It just makes me wonder. I suppose the Westermarck Effect doesn't really take hold in this community because they're spread out and move a lot, but damn, don't these creepy uncles have some doubts about being attracted to their close blood relatives?

Girls are discouraged from playing with their brothers as children since they may eventually have to marry one of them. :puke-huge:My thoughts go to mental illness being hereditary. If pedophilia (which often involves close family relations) is a mental illness, it would seem that they all have it

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caszandra
11 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

Girls are discouraged from playing with their brothers as children since they may eventually have to marry one of them. 

Not just this but in the case of (John) Daniel Kingston who has more than 150 children there is just no way that they can all know each other and how they are related. I imagine the other men have a similar or higher number of children. The kids are also lied to about who their fathers are until they are old enough to lie as to protect the Order. Source - the Rolling Stone article posted at the beginning of the thread.

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Wine time!
closetcagebaby
56 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

Girls are discouraged from playing with their brothers as children since they may eventually have to marry one of them. :puke-huge:My thoughts go to mental illness being hereditary. If pedophilia (which often involves close family relations) is a mental illness, it would seem that they all have it

Wow, I've never thought of it that way, but that really does make sense. It's one big shared delusion. 

 

22 minutes ago, caszandra said:

Not just this but in the case of (John) Daniel Kingston who has more than 150 children there is just no way that they can all know each other and how they are related. I imagine the other men have a similar or higher number of children. The kids are also lied to about who their fathers are until they are old enough to lie as to protect the Order. Source - the Rolling Stone article posted at the beginning of the thread.

I suppose too, once you're related to everyone to a close degree, that ceases to be "special" so to speak. When your whole community is family, how would you grow up differentiating between community and relative? The social boundaries just aren't there. 

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theinvisiblegirl

I didn't know the casino plot (and probably others) in Big Love was based on true polygamists! The Big Love writers really did their research.

Reading the Rolling Stone article really was a fucking ride, huh? These people are nuts.

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mstee

I'm usually good at sorting out family trees, but I can't even begin to grasp this one. The same double last names? Wow. How are these people not more strange looking? I know that there are diseases that some of the kids are born with. But I was looking on the tumblr link above and all the wives were pretty. I know it sounds so shallow but I was expecting people to look a lot less healthy from being the product of so much inbreeding. 

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DaisyD

Mr. D calls them family thistle bushes rather than trees. There was mention of one member going to school to be a geneticist so they can avoid birth defects. Somehow I doubt there's much chance of avoiding them at this point. This isn't a couple generations of first cousins. This is at least 3 generations of siblings, cousins, and uncle/niece relations. They won't outbreed because then they would no longer be pure. As incredibly sad as it is for the children in this, those children will be less and less able to maintain the line. This group is destined for implosion. 

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mstee

Is there a timeframe for the expiration of this group? I wonder if someone who studies genetics could say that this can go on for x number of years before they literally cannot have anymore children, or have babies born that cannot survive infancy. 

Edited by mstee

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theinvisiblegirl
1 hour ago, mstee said:

I'm usually good at sorting out family trees, but I can't even begin to grasp this one. The same double last names? Wow. How are these people not more strange looking? I know that there are diseases that some of the kids are born with. But I was looking on the tumblr link above and all the wives were pretty. I know it sounds so shallow but I was expecting people to look a lot less healthy from being the product of so much inbreeding. 

I was also expecting people who weren't wearing regular clothes? I guess, on some superficial level, I've divided my polygamists into two groups - the "good" who wear regular clothes, and the "bad" who wear the prairie dresses. Clearly the Kingston group is challenging this ideal, because I went into this thinking that I would see prairie dresses.

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pook

Like others I have not fallen down this rabbit hole yet but am vaguely familiar, thanks for this.  Laundry will have to just keep calling and calling tonight to dead ears.

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pook

"Stephanie/Jessica recalls that the Kingston Clan taught her that if she left, she would become Black - as in African American. Stephanie/Jessica also recalls what amounts to a “fun” (note: totally NOT fun) racist anti-Asian belief that the Kingston Clan teaches: Eating Ramen noodles causes genetic defects."

WTF!  I can't even with these people.  What would happen if they ate lasagna or heaven forbid falafel?

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Happy
PennySycamore

Does anyone know if there was a relationship between the Kingston group and Josh Powell?  I do know that Josh's father believed in polygamy and had several wives.  FWIW, Josh was a controlling asshole who first murdered his wife, Susan, probably dumped her body in a old mine in western Utah, and then just before the CPS worker was to visit the home, blew himself and his two little boys up.  

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DaisyD
2 hours ago, pook said:

"Stephanie/Jessica recalls that the Kingston Clan taught her that if she left, she would become Black - as in African American. Stephanie/Jessica also recalls what amounts to a “fun” (note: totally NOT fun) racist anti-Asian belief that the Kingston Clan teaches: Eating Ramen noodles causes genetic defects."

WTF!  I can't even with these people.  What would happen if they ate lasagna or heaven forbid falafel?

They believe that the black race will rise up and start killing everyone and that they will be saved by the Native Americans who will, in turn, serve them after they've killed all of the black people for them. They are severely racist. In the early days they got converts recommended by klansmen. Obama's term has been downright terrifying to them.

2 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Does anyone know if there was a relationship between the Kingston group and Josh Powell?  I do know that Josh's father believed in polygamy and had several wives.  FWIW, Josh was a controlling asshole who first murdered his wife, Susan, probably dumped her body in a old mine in western Utah, and then just before the CPS worker was to visit the home, blew himself and his two little boys up.  

:pb_eek: I haven't heard of Josh Powell. Off to Google. 

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Dizzy
nelliebelle1197
2 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Does anyone know if there was a relationship between the Kingston group and Josh Powell?  I do know that Josh's father believed in polygamy and had several wives.  FWIW, Josh was a controlling asshole who first murdered his wife, Susan, probably dumped her body in a old mine in western Utah, and then just before the CPS worker was to visit the home, blew himself and his two little boys up.  

None. I read a book on the murder recently. His dad is a excommunicated Mormon who is basically a pervert and pedophile. Susan was a strict ordinary LDS. Her FIL, Steven, was in love with her and likely had something to do with disposing of the body to protect Josh, but he is just your run of the mill pervert with no religious overtones. I don't recall reading anything about  the FIL having several wives, either. He wanted to sleep with his DIL, and his ex wife claimed he wanted to explore polygamy but just for sex, not religion. Steven was not religious at all and did not have several wives.

Edited by nelliebelle1197

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DaisyD

Josh and both his brother and father sound like deeply disturbed people, but I'm not getting polygamy, let alone Kingston, out of them. The Order doesn't really seem to do conversion. That would make them impure. Those poor little boys though. "Mommy was in the trunk"? Heartbreaking. :my_cry:

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