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47of74

Pope Francis to create commission to explore Female Deacons

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Enraged
47of74

Cool.

ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-create-commission-study-female-deacons-catholic-church#.VzR7PK-lw_U.twitter

Quote

Pope Francis has announced he will create a commission to study the possibility of allowing women to serve as deacons in the Catholic church, signaling an historic openness to the possibility of ending the global institution’s practice of an all-male clergy.

The pontiff indicated he would create such a commission during a meeting at the Vatican Thursday with some 900 leaders of the world’s congregations of Catholic women religious, who asked him during a question-and-answer session why the church excludes women from serving as deacons.

The women religious, meeting with the pope as part of the triennial assembly of the International Union of Superiors General (UISG), told Francis that women had served as deacons in the early church and asked: “Why not construct an official commission that might study the question?”

Francis’ openness to studying the possibility of women serving as deacons could represent an historic shift for the global Catholic church, which does not ordain women as clergy.

Hopefully the church will move in that direction, having female deacons as a start then keep moving towards the day when all levels of holy orders are open to women.  Of course this being the Catholic Church I'm managing expectations on this.

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Mischievous
LadyCrow1313

I'm not a Christian, but I think that this is a big step. My mother's church has @ least two female deacons that I know of, so I can't see why a female preist/bishop/(dare I say)Pope isn't an eventual possibility.

Of course, Hell might freeze over before it actually happens, but you never know.

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livinginthelight

I'm not catholic, but I absolutely LOVE this pope. Though bound by church teachings, his values are in the right place and he is making needed changes as quickly as possible.

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Cleopatra7

I'm not optimistic at all about this. In 1963, Pope John XXIII created the Pontifical Commission on Birth Control to study the possibility of allowing contraception between married couples. When John died later that year, his successor, Paul VI, increased the number of people on the commission, which included scientists, doctors, moral theologians, bishops,  and ordinary married lay people. The overwhelming consensus of the committee was that birth control was not intrinsically evil. However, Paul felt like he couldn't go against Catholic tradition, especially since Pope Pius XI had railed against birth control in 1930 in his encycical Casti Connubi which was still within recent memory, and would create the impression that the Catholic Church was just changing things based on public opinion. So Paul wrote Humanae Vitae, which reaffirmed the Church's opposition to birth control, and the rest is history. As with Paul and birth control, I think Francis is simply creating a lot of false hopes with a commission to study the possibility of female deacons, which will surely backfire when he inevitably says that women can't be deacons. Allowing female deacons would rupture ties with the Eastern Orthodox Churches, who already don't like the post-Vatican II iteration of the Catholic mass, among other things.

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Tired
Coconut Flan

The Ukrainian Orthodox church ordains female deacons and other Orthodox churches are currently discussing the issue.  As stated above female deacons are historically allowed. 

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Cleopatra7
10 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

The Ukrainian Orthodox church ordains female deacons and other Orthodox churches are currently discussing the issue.  As stated above female deacons are historically allowed. 

That's interesting. I guess Francis could use the example of those Orthodox churches who have female deaconness as leverage to convince conservative and traditionalist Catholics not to go crazy if the commission does decide in favor. As you can probably tell, I'm simply very skeptical of any signs of "progress" in the Catholic Church, but if I'm proven wrong, I won't be complaining.

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Waffle Time
smittykins
1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I'm not optimistic at all about this. In 1963, Pope John XXIII created the Pontifical Commission on Birth Control to study the possibility of allowing contraception between married couples. When John died later that year, his successor, Paul VI, increased the number of people on the commission, which included scientists, doctors, moral theologians, bishops,  and ordinary married lay people. The overwhelming consensus of the committee was that birth control was not intrinsically evil. However, Paul felt like he couldn't go against Catholic tradition, especially since Pope Pius XI had railed against birth control in 1930 in his encycical Casti Connubi which was still within recent memory, and would create the impression that the Catholic Church was just changing things based on public opinion. So Paul wrote Humanae Vitae, which reaffirmed the Church's opposition to birth control, and the rest is history. As with Paul and birth control, I think Francis is simply creating a lot of false hopes with a commission to study the possibility of female deacons, which will surely backfire when he inevitably says that women can't be deacons. Allowing female deacons would rupture ties with the Eastern Orthodox Churches, who already don't like the post-Vatican II iteration of the Catholic mass, among other things.

I remember seeing a documentary on this.  Hearing about the some of the letters they received from women who felt captive to their husbands' sexual drives, and those who had more children then they could care for, was sobering.

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Enraged
47of74
1 hour ago, livinginthelight said:

I'm not catholic, but I absolutely LOVE this pope. Though bound by church teachings, his values are in the right place and he is making needed changes as quickly as possible.

I like Francis far more than Benedict XVI.  If Francis had been elected right after John Paul II instead of Benedict maybe I would have stayed with the church instead of going for a swim across the Thames over to the Episcopal Church.

As much as I like Francis I have no intention of returning to the Catholic Church.  Even if Francis tomorrow mandated the following I still would not go back;

  • Women are welcome to all levels of holy orders (deacon/priest/bishop/cardinal/pope).
  • The total blanket opposition to abortion and birth control is ended.
  • Marriage equality for all is the law of the church.
  • The church is getting out of the politics business.

Getting out when I did was so liberating, I don't think I could go back again.  Not having to check my mind or my own beliefs at the door is so refreshing.

40 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

That's interesting. I guess Francis could use the example of those Orthodox churches who have female deaconness as leverage to convince conservative and traditionalist Catholics not to go crazy if the commission does decide in favor. As you can probably tell, I'm simply very skeptical of any signs of "progress" in the Catholic Church, but if I'm proven wrong, I won't be complaining.

The conservative and traditionalist Catholics already think Francis is an anti-Pope.  I hope he doesn't worry overly much about them.  If the reich wing Catholics are going to despise Francis he might as well give them a real reason to despise him.

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HarryPotterFan
3 hours ago, 47of74 said:

The conservative and traditionalist Catholics already think Francis is an anti-Pope.  I hope he doesn't worry overly much about them.  If the reich wing Catholics are going to despise Francis he might as well give them a real reason to despise him.

Reich wing. Love it. :clap: 

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Cleopatra7
17 minutes ago, smittykins said:

I remember seeing a documentary on this.  Hearing about the some of the letters they received from women who felt captive to their husbands' sexual drives, and those who had more children then they could care for, was sobering.

I'd be really interested in knowing the title of that documentary, if you can recall it.

4 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

The conservative and traditionalist Catholics already think Francis is an anti-Pope.  I hope he doesn't worry overly much about them.  If the reich wing Catholics are going to despise Francis he might as well give them a real reason to despise him.

The way that the Vatican is continually trying to bring the Society of St. Pius X back in the fold indicates to me that the Catholic Church is more interesting in trying to keep traditionalists and conservatives from bolting than liberals. You probably don't know this, but Francis was in talks with the SSPX just a couple of weeks ago and had nothing but positive things to say:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/will-pope-francis-mend-ties-with-the-sspx-84069/

You won't see that kind of cordiality demonstrated towards members of the Womanpriest movement or Dignity USA. Despite this, many traditionalists are already essentially out the door as it is, and prefer schismatic groups to even those traditionalist groups that have official recognition from the Vatican. It's sort of like the Catholic equivalent of "secondary separation.

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Enraged
47of74
8 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I'd be really interested in knowing the title of that documentary, if you can recall it.

The way that the Vatican is continually trying to bring the Society of St. Pius X back in the fold indicates to me that the Catholic Church is more interesting in trying to keep traditionalists and conservatives from bolting than liberals. You probably don't know this, but Francis was in talks with the SSPX just a couple of weeks ago and had nothing but positive things to say:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/will-pope-francis-mend-ties-with-the-sspx-84069/

You won't see that kind of cordiality demonstrated towards members of the Womanpriest movement or Dignity USA. Despite this, many traditionalists are already essentially out the door as it is, and prefer schismatic groups to even those traditionalist groups that have official recognition from the Vatican. It's sort of like the Catholic equivalent of "secondary separation.

No I did not know that Francis was buddying up to the SSPX clowns again.  I don't follow Catholic church news as closely as I used to.  Doing a quick check of the local Archdiocesan paper I don't see where they had really said anything about the SSPX.

Like I said I'm not running back into the church just because Francis is in charge.  It's going to take several similar Popes to effect any real change in the direction of the church.  Hell the Cardinals might get a wild hair up their ass next time and put some idiot like Burke in charge who would promptly reverse everything Francis did.  Also I'm too used to the women leading worship to want to go back either.

 

 

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