Jump to content
IGNORED

Dominion Oriented Femininity, by the Botkinettes


Columbia

Recommended Posts

I wanted to add that they are attractive women who are smart and charming. Certainly they have had many suitors. More than most even. What would be the right man? Do you see them living in an RV with a dozen kids if the man was "the right one"? This is an honest question.

       I realize we probably won't agree on them. I am happy with exchanging points of view, and hope I don't seem like I am trying to start an argument.:my_smile:

Suitors that they knew were suitors, or suitors that got intimidated or turned down by dad?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 65
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 hours ago, CloakNDagger said:

I personally feel rather bad for them.

This question is one I struggle with regularly. There's a fine line between being victimized by the culture and perpetuating it, and I'm not sure where to place them. The Botkin ladies are trapped in a toxic patriarchal power structure, in which as you mention their potential suitors are likely driven away by a severe and micromanagerial father. At the same time, they've damaged thousands of young women's lives by perpetuating this toxic patriarchal power structure in families and entrenching these ideas in the minds of these impressionable young ladies.

Are they to be blamed or pitied? Likely a healthy measure of both. I feel bad for them, absolutely, but also recognize their part in suffocating the lives of thousands of young women. Thoughtful criticism is a better way to express this than indiscriminate personal attacks, certainly, but they cannot be exempt from this criticism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, CloakNDagger said:

That's actually quite an unfair and untrue assertion. I happen to think that those girls would do JUST FINE despite whatever you think about their belief system.

It has little to do with their beliefs aside from the fact that those beliefs created the small, coddled world in which they live that romanticizes life in the past. Women in the past were not stay at home daughters who cared for all of daddy's needs. They wouldn't have survived had they lived then by the beliefs and values they currently have regarding women and their 'place'. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a big ol' Botkin hater, but I could see the sisters surviving pioneer life; though the lecture at the center of this thread isn't about the old fontier but about enduring some post-apocalyptic wasteland after society crumbles due to atheism/feminism/gay people buying lots and lots of cakes, so the point is basically moot.

It's also my opinion that the Forever-SAHD life is probably much more fulfilling than being a sturdy fundie mommy, two dependent clauses in the family Christmas letter. You're stuck doing full-time emotional labor for your dad at age 30, but it beats marriage at 19 and air-lifting to the hospital over placental abruptions!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

It's also my opinion that the Forever-SAHD life is probably much more fulfilling than being a sturdy fundie mommy, two dependent clauses in the family Christmas letter. You're stuck doing full-time emotional labor for your dad at age 30, but it beats marriage at 19 and air-lifting to the hospital over placental abruptions!

I think that if my options were hanging out at the house until my parents died or having umpteen gafuckjillion kids, I'd probably choose the former.

Unless I really wanted kids-- then I'd discreetly wait until my early-to-mid thirties before getting married. Given that they seem to follow the VF elite's views that Rules Are For Other People, Not Me, it wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both of them winds up doing that. Won't be too long, now. 

Sidebar: The older one (I can never keep them straight) and I are the same age. I remember reading their columns, which sometimes popped up in fairly mainstream Christian magazines for teenage girls, back in the days of yore when I was still being forced into attending Southern Baptist churches. I distinctly recall thinking, "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no, I'm not doing that!" But some of the girls at my dad's church were really into it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, whatever Geoff was thinking when he cooked up his "200 Year Plan," it's clearly not working when it comes to his adult daughters. They are 30 (A-S) and 28 (E) year-old women, doing Goddess-knows-what these days - their blog hasn't been updated in almost a year, and I don't think the world has heard a public peep out of them for at least that long.

It's the family enmeshment and lack of choice that bother me the most. They're clearly in thrall to a psychologically and emotionally unhealthy relationship with their uber-controlling father. It was icky 10 years ago, and it's even ickier now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He may not be worried about his daughters within the context of his 200 year plan.  He references male heirs in his plan, and since any children they have probably won't have Botkin as a last name, he may not care as much if they don't reproduce on schedule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, CloakNDagger said:

Suitors that they knew were suitors, or suitors that got intimidated or turned down by dad?

        I don't think it matters much. If they were not wealthy they would be married off already. They go to all sorts of events all over the country. If they really wanted to they could find a way to get to know other men, surely they interacted with thier brother's friends. I imagine if they felt deeply enough for someone they would make it happen one way or another. Like you said they are not stupid.

         Nurie Rod will never have the luxury of being in her late twenties early thirties and be able to persue her interests and hobbies the way the Botkin girls do. She has to take care of a million kids then get married and take care of a million more kids. I imagine this is the reality of most fundie women whose families  buy into the quiver full or similar lifestyle. If they were poor and barely scraping by it would be a whole other story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

        I don't think it matters much. If they were not wealthy they would be married off already. They go to all sorts of events all over the country. If they really wanted to they could find a way to get to know other men, surely they interacted with thier brother's friends. I imagine if they felt deeply enough for someone they would make it happen one way or another. Like you said they are not stupid.

         Nurie Rod will never have the luxury of being in her late twenties early thirties and be able to persue her interests and hobbies the way the Botkin girls do. She has to take care of a million kids then get married and take care of a million more kids. I imagine this is the reality of most fundie women whose families  buy into the quiver full or similar lifestyle. If they were poor and barely scraping by it would be a whole other story.

Is that Lagartha for your profile pic?!

Also yes, I believe AS and E have had suitors come but be turned down by dear old dad. I lol'd SO hard when he was telling Kev about his 200 year plan. Geoff is insane. I found him when I listened to his RMSCOTF podcast about watching a movie together as a godly family. Its such fun to hear them talk about disney and dreamworks movies and about how 'sinful' Rapunzel and Hiccup are disobeying authority. :giggle:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

^why yes it is the lovely Lagertha!! I freaking love her!

Me too!! Such a badass Shieldmaiden!:agree:

I found out about The Vikings from getting into How to train your dragon. I love how much Viking culture actually allowed women so much more than the judeo Christian one. I loved when those guys got served when they went after Lag at home. Haha! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's one Botkinette courtship account:

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com.au/2009/05/botkin-update-who-is-geoff-botkin-and.html

Quote

” I received some feedback from New Zealand from someone who attended one of the meetings, and it was neither pleasant, nor was that particular meeting well-attended.

 

This homeschooling mom described a love for the wholesome image that the Vision Forum advertising paints and expressed her enjoyment of Voddie Baucham’s messages. Apparently, one session with the Botkins and the men that they took with them on the trip cured her of affection for the whole Vision Forum affiliated group. I understand that she was most disturbed by message about the subjugation of women, the religion overtly focused on gender and the idea that “daughters are engaged to their fathers until marriage” (her paraphrase and description of what she understood from the message). They also included a story of one of the Botkin Sisters’ suitors (who apparently approached Geoff Botkin) who was subjected to a process of Bible study similar to the process that Scott Brown required of the Peter Bradrick as described in the Botkin daughters’ “Return of the Daughters” video. From what was related to me, the Botkin daughter decided that she was not terribly interested in the young man after he completed this quite involved process, the young man was sent away in sorrow, and this New Zealander had the impression that the whole family expressed relief that the matchmaking did not work out.

 

The woman expressed to me that she has now been “cured” of any idealistic illusions about the Vision Forum agenda now that she has heard this message from the Botkins themselves.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I know what to read when I can't fall asleep!

Why is femininity so important to these women? I mean in QF terms they are spinsters and no amount of makeup or 'nice' clothes is going to attract a suitor sadly.

How much more blathering do they need to do before they become irrelevant to their target market? I'm their age and there's no way I would have listened to women that much older than me as a teen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

Here's one Botkinette courtship account:

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com.au/2009/05/botkin-update-who-is-geoff-botkin-and.html

  Quote

” I received some feedback from New Zealand from someone who attended one of the meetings, and it was neither pleasant, nor was that particular meeting well-attended.

This homeschooling mom described a love for the wholesome image that the Vision Forum advertising paints and expressed her enjoyment of Voddie Baucham’s messages. Apparently, one session with the Botkins and the men that they took with them on the trip cured her of affection for the whole Vision Forum affiliated group. I understand that she was most disturbed by message about the subjugation of women, the religion overtly focused on gender and the idea that “daughters are engaged to their fathers until marriage” (her paraphrase and description of what she understood from the message). They also included a story of one of the Botkin Sisters’ suitors (who apparently approached Geoff Botkin) who was subjected to a process of Bible study similar to the process that Scott Brown required of the Peter Bradrick as described in the Botkin daughters’ “Return of the Daughters” video. From what was related to me, the Botkin daughter decided that she was not terribly interested in the young man after he completed this quite involved process, the young man was sent away in sorrow, and this New Zealander had the impression that the whole family expressed relief that the matchmaking did not work out.

The woman expressed to me that she has now been “cured” of any idealistic illusions about the Vision Forum agenda now that she has heard this message from the Botkins themselves.

I am not at all surprised to hear this account of how one Botkinette courtship went and that, for the suitor, it was all for naught.  In fact when I started reading the above account, it went pretty much as I expected it would.

I don't think the young man that "was sent away in sorrow" has been the only one.  I strongly believe there's been a number of suitors who have been put through the paces by Geoff, only to have the daughter in question decide she wasn't interested (hmmmm...wonder whose work THAT was?) and the whole family (because it's got to be a family affair you know) being sooooo relieved it didn't work out. 

Furthermore, I believe that eventually word got out amongst the eligible young men that what it's like to deal with Geoff and they decide it's not worth it.   At this point, most likely any one-time suitors have all moved on.

AS and E are still single strictly due to daddy IMHO.   While I think that now they might like their life as it is, they have more freedom than they would if they married and perhaps are OK with it, but if they had any hopes for marriage at one time (or still have) you can be darn sure that it's been or is being quashed by Daddy G.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd sure never try :P  (Though I'm sure Australians with cancer need not apply.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

       Is there any biblical test for future daughter in laws since they will be raising the future Botkin heirs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.