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samurai_sarah

More Joshley: Still hiding - Part 16

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EmCatlyn
Quote

@choralcrusader8613 wrote in the previous thread:

Josh's treatment, though, wasn't so much treatment as it was "Do physical labor for Jesus and repent for your straying ways." I'd be surprised if he got any actual mental health care there.

 

When all of this RU stuff was first going down, my son noted that even if all they did was pray and work, the experience would help Josh clear his mind and rethink what he wanted to do with his life.   

Josh didn't get therapy for the real problems that underlie his sexual misconduct, but he did get a chance to use his shame and guilt constructively (hard labor, prayer) and to work towards some sort of spiritual peace.  

Though it probably won't work in the long run, in the short run he may feel healed, at peace with God and maybe even hopeful that his life will get better.  The same is not true for JB who has had to confront his "brand" losing value and has had to accept that he and Michelle are no longer the flagbearers of wholesomeness they wanted to be.

Maybe JB should go to RU to work on his addiction to power. ;)

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JenniferJuniper
14 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

 

Josh didn't get therapy for the real problems that underlie his sexual misconduct, but he did get a chance to use his shame and guilt constructively (hard labor, prayer) and to work towards some sort of spiritual peace.  

Though it probably won't work in the long run, in the short run he may feel healed, at peace with God and maybe even hopeful that his life will get better.  The same is not true for JB who has had to confront his "brand" losing value and has had to accept that he and Michelle are no longer the flagbearers of wholesomeness they wanted to be.

 

Of course if all guys who cheated on their wives went away for long rehab stints, women would rule the world.

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withaj
3 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Of course if all guys who cheated on their wives went away for long rehab stints, women would rule the world.

I know this is probably said tongue-in-cheek, but I'm not sure this is a particularly good generalization.

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SweetLaurel

I don't think Josh was allowed to 'rethink' his life.  I think he's only allowed to be sorry and repent and then trot his little self back in to the line his religion tells him is proper.  

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Coconutwater

From reading on RU's website, they get alone time in the mornings and evenings outside to sit and reflect, I think it may have given him some peace to be away from the dog and pony show for awhile. He didn't get any real therapy so unfortunately, he will be back to his old ways at some point. If he had been allowed to talk about his problems and figure out why he is the way he is, he can probably change his life. I think the reason they sent him there is so that no more skeletons will fall out of the closer and JB and Michelle won't be thrown under the bus. 

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Sundaymorning

I agree that that "rehab" stay might have had a few positive aspects like getting away from the whole Duggar clan/situation, having a bit time for himself, and also getting a bit of physical activity (other than cheating on his wife) is very healthy and helps body and mind.

However, I think that the negatives outweight the positives by far. Because the camp wasn't just about getting time to think about his situation paired with manual labour. It was also about heavy brainwashing and getting him back into the cult's ways. I doubt the things they taught him there are truly beneficial for him or Anna, we all know what kind of crap those fundie "marriage experts" tell people about relationships and gender roles, and those in RU surely aren't better.

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EmCatlyn
4 hours ago, SweetLaurel said:

I don't think Josh was allowed to 'rethink' his life.  I think he's only allowed to be sorry and repent and then trot his little self back in to the line his religion tells him is proper.  

I think he was encouraged to think about his sins which is one way to think about your life and how you got wherever you may be.  Of course he was not encouraged to "rethink" anything that would go against the fundie Christian beliefs that RU promoted, but within those limits, he could well have realized (a) that he married for the wrong reasons, (b) that his sexual transgressions have cost him a lot and he needs to exercise better self-control, (c) that though he married for the wrong reasons he now has an obligation to make the marriage work.

I am not saying he had these thoughts, only that he could have had these or similar thoughts without going against his "programming" and that whatever he thought about, knowing that he can start over and try to do it right this time may make him feel hopeful.  The reality may not hit him for a year or two.  He has had a time to rest emotionally as well as physically and may be ready to try to do better this time. 

In the long run, of course, the real problem has not been address and something else will surely go wrong.

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SpurgeonSquarepants

Brainwashing or not, this whole thing still just grinds my gears. He gets to go away and yeah, while there was manual labor, it's not like he wasn't doing that for Jim Bob prior to FRC and Bin. He got time to himself. Peaceful respite during each day, twice.

Now, when exactly does Anna get this? Or any women in this cult. I just can't feel bad while he had no family responsibilities for months, with a newborn and 3 other very small children at home, plus a very sad, uber devoted, faithful wife who will get blamed for this...forever?

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Dandruff
1 hour ago, SpurgeonSquarepants said:

Brainwashing or not, this whole thing still just grinds my gears. He gets to go away and yeah, while there was manual labor, it's not like he wasn't doing that for Jim Bob prior to FRC and Bin. He got time to himself. Peaceful respite during each day, twice.

Now, when exactly does Anna get this? Or any women in this cult. I just can't feel bad while he had no family responsibilities for months, with a newborn and 3 other very small children at home, plus a very sad, uber devoted, faithful wife who will get blamed for this...forever?

Who knows - Anna may have really wanted him gone at the time.  Wouldn't blame her a bit, even if it meant more work for her, and how much childcare do we think Josh did, anyway?  I hope she doesn't feel responsible for what happened, though I guess she might.  But she must also know that many people, including fundies, put the blame squarely on Josh.

I agree with those who think Josh didn't get any real therapy at RU; just work, Jesus, and some distance from the chaos.  The work may have been helpful, and I doubt he minded being insulated from Jim Bob and all the negative press.  I think the effects of the religious programming are the real question.  For all we know, he may have been a secret atheist for years, in which case it was just six months of working on his acting skills. 

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SpurgeonSquarepants
5 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Who knows - Anna may have really wanted him gone at the time.  Wouldn't blame her a bit, even if it meant more work for her, and how much childcare do we think Josh did, anyway?  I hope she doesn't feel responsible for what happened, though I guess she might.  But she must also know that many people, including fundies, put the blame squarely on Josh.

I agree with those who think Josh didn't get any real therapy at RU; just work, Jesus, and some distance from the chaos.  The work may have been helpful, and I doubt he minded being insulated from Jim Bob and all the negative press.  I think the effects of the religious programming are the real question.  For all we know, he may have been a secret atheist for years, in which case it was just six months of working on his acting skills. 

Very true about Anna maybe wanting him gone. He is a scuz-ball supreme. It must have been agony. And that distance must have been nice - for him. He got away. She had to stay in the girls room, under Jim Bob's umbrella. There was no life altering, basking in Jesus' light, peaceful meditation for Anna there. So sad and totally unfair.

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SilverBeach

I don't think for a minute that Anna wanted Josh gone. Her headship? No. And even if she did want him gone, she would not have wanted him separated from the children, and she had just given birth. Hard for us to imagine but Anna would have made dinner for Josh every day, if he had not gone away, throughout the whole scandal. She "lurves" him, and believes her loyalty to Josh is tantamount to loyalty to God. So messed up.

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nst
36 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I don't think for a minute that Anna wanted Josh gone. Her headship? No. And even if she did want him gone, she would not have wanted him separated from the children, and she had just given birth. Hard for us to imagine but Anna would have made dinner for Josh every day, if he had not gone away, throughout the whole scandal. She "lurves" him, and believes her loyalty to Josh is tantamount to loyalty to God. So messed up.

preach it to the choir

the biggest mistake the new show ever made was Anna going on and on about Josh and marriage 

its just sick and disgusting 

she is just a scum as he is

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EmCatlyn
1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

Who knows - Anna may have really wanted him gone at the time.  Wouldn't blame her a bit, even if it meant more work for her, and how much childcare do we think Josh did, anyway?  I hope she doesn't feel responsible for what happened, though I guess she might.  But she must also know that many people, including fundies, put the blame squarely on Josh.

I agree with those who think Josh didn't get any real therapy at RU; just work, Jesus, and some distance from the chaos.  The work may have been helpful, and I doubt he minded being insulated from Jim Bob and all the negative press.  I think the effects of the religious programming are the real question.  For all we know, he may have been a secret atheist for years, in which case it was just six months of working on his acting skills. 

We can only speculate, but I think if Josh had been a secret atheist at the time of the AM scandal breaking he probably would not have confessed about the porn and he probably would have not gone to RU.   

I think he probably felt that God had intervened to expose him when AM broke. He may even have felt that the media's discovery of the molestation stuff was God's punishment for his adultery. (It wouldn't surprise me if the family felt that way also.) 

If he had been an atheist, Josh might have told Anna that he just wasn't that into her and done something about getting away.  And just maybe he would have looked into secular counseling.

Maybe he was afraid of not finding a job, or maybe he is more afraid of JB than of God,  but I think RU for 6 months when you are not a believer must be almost impossible to take. But Josh took it.  Was this more hypocrisy or did he go through the program because he believed it could help?

Was he "brainwashed" or was something he really believes deep down simply reinforced?

 

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

I don't think for a minute that Anna wanted Josh gone. Her headship? No. And even if she did want him gone, she would not have wanted him separated from the children, and she had just given birth. Hard for us to imagine but Anna would have made dinner for Josh every day, if he had not gone away, throughout the whole scandal. She "lurves" him, and believes her loyalty to Josh is tantamount to loyalty to God. So messed up.

Whether or not she consciously wanted him gone (and I am with you, she probably didn't want the separation), I think she was probably relieved, on some level, not to have to deal with his needs as well as her own during the first few days or weeks after he left.  One of the "inside sources" said that Anna wouldn't believe that AM was true until Josh told him herself, and that as the impact of the situation hit her she spent a lot of time crying.  I believe that of the first couple of weeks at least.. Having Josh around would not have given her the freedom to grieve. She would have had to confront him with wifely submission and Christian forgiveness while still in shock at how her world had fallen apart.  The six month separation was probably too long for her, but the first few weeks were surely a welcome respite.

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Mischievous
Carol

Going against the grain here but I think Josh looks somewhat chastened, especially around his eyes.  Jim Bob is looking up, Josh looks like he is just trying not to make eye contact.  To me he is not giving off the smarm and confidence he had before.  IMO something's changed, maybe temporarily but, he looks different.  I don't think he liked the photo being taken.

I love to read faces.

ETA I remembered something I've thought all along...that Josh likes to control the narrative when caught.  I don't for one second believe Josh ran to Michelle out of guilt after he molested his sisters.  I think he ran to her(in addition to the time he called them when they were away and told them to come back because he'd done it again - thus control the story)  because he knew he was caught and he would stand a better chance if he gave his story first.  Same with the AM scandal when he came out right after it was made public and admitted that he was a hypocrite and that Satan had built a fortress in his heart.  Damage control.

I think he looks chastened, embarrassed, a bit anxious and unhappy being photographed, but you can bet JB told him to suck it up and face the music.

God, I hate to think what his life is like with JB and Michelle.

Edited by Carol

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CooliePickney
15 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

Continued from here:

 

Thanks Jinder Roles! Sorry haven't figured out how to tag! 

I believe the photo is real- there was no reason for the original poster to fabricate the meeting, she wasn't a super fan.

i think he and jim bob didn't have much choice but to pose for a photo, accessibility and promoting a friendly family brand is their schtick. I thought it was interesting they seemed to stand comfortably together- no sense from jim bob that his kid had ruined his earning potential and reputation.

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ksgranola1
9 hours ago, Carol said:

Going against the grain here but I think Josh looks somewhat chastened, especially around his eyes.  Jim Bob is looking up, Josh looks like he is just trying not to make eye contact.  To me he is not giving off the smarm and confidence he had before.  IMO something's changed, maybe temporarily but, he looks different.  I don't think he liked the photo being taken.

I love to read faces.

ETA I remembered something I've thought all along...that Josh likes to control the narrative when caught.  I don't for one second believe Josh ran to Michelle out of guilt after he molested his sisters.  I think he ran to her(in addition to the time he called them when they were away and told them to come back because he'd done it again - thus control the story)  because he knew he was caught and he would stand a better chance if he gave his story first.  Same with the AM scandal when he came out right after it was made public and admitted that he was a hypocrite and that Satan had built a fortress in his heart.  Damage control.

I think he looks chastened, embarrassed, a bit anxious and unhappy being photographed, but you can bet JB told him to suck it up and face the music.

God, I hate to think what his life is like with JB and Michelle.

Why do I keep reading about this picture. Where is it?

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Satisfied
choralcrusader8613
22 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Why do I keep reading about this picture. Where is it?

The picture is originally from a private FB group, so it can't be posted here publicly.

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Mischievous
Carol

Read a few pages back.

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2manyKidzzz
1 hour ago, ksgranola1 said:

Why do I keep reading about this picture. Where is it?

I do not know how to move pictures.....but you can pm Benye our resident rapper, and she will send it I think. 

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Drala
11 hours ago, Carol said:

Going against the grain here but I think Josh looks somewhat chastened, especially around his eyes.  Jim Bob is looking up, Josh looks like he is just trying not to make eye contact.  To me he is not giving off the smarm and confidence he had before.  IMO something's changed, maybe temporarily but, he looks different.  I don't think he liked the photo being taken.

I love to read faces.

ETA I remembered something I've thought all along...that Josh likes to control the narrative when caught.  I don't for one second believe Josh ran to Michelle out of guilt after he molested his sisters.  I think he ran to her(in addition to the time he called them when they were away and told them to come back because he'd done it again - thus control the story)  because he knew he was caught and he would stand a better chance if he gave his story first.  Same with the AM scandal when he came out right after it was made public and admitted that he was a hypocrite and that Satan had built a fortress in his heart.  Damage control.

I think he looks chastened, embarrassed, a bit anxious and unhappy being photographed, but you can bet JB told him to suck it up and face the music.

God, I hate to think what his life is like with JB and Michelle.

I noticed the change around his eyes, too.  I spent some time thinking about the difference--there's a sadness in his eyes, like something has really touched him.  Before, his beady eyes gave off a lecherous vibe. I agree that he looks chastened as opposed to his usual smarmy countenance.

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Wenny

Jim bob has worked in politics. He that forced smile so i can't tell if he is truly uncomfortable or sucks at smiling. I think Josh moved his arm so that is why it is so big. 

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benye

Josh almost looks as if he has no worries. JB on the other hand..

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Mischievous
Carol

Looking at JB's face, I'd add this caption

"OK, you caught us....grrrr.  You want a picture, here's a picture!  Fuck you!!"

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FundieFarmer

Definitely still hiding, except for one fan, out in the middle of somewhere in a photo only a PM train of people on FJ have seen.

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