Sister Wives 3 - Collective in Crisis?

[downtherabbithole]

2 hours ago, xCourtneyx said:

Maddie has morphed into what I thought Mariah was going to be as a young adult. She's getting married young and to an older man and had a short almost courtship like relationship to a man that most people would consider family.

I never would have picked Maddie to be the first to get married. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

This season on Sister Wives...We will see Robyn give birth in her bedroom again. We will see Kody have a confused grimace on his face as one of his wives explains why she was upset with him. We will see Meri get tanner and angrier. Robyn will cry. Christine will say that her and Kody need a vacation. Janelle will raise her children, work, and workout. Whenever they show Robyn's house, I'll wonder to myself why she has a gumball machine by the front door and those odd overly-tall dining chairs. 

[Shiny]

21 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

This season on Sister Wives...We will see Robyn give birth in her bedroom again. We will see Kody have a confused grimace on his face as one of his wives explains why she was upset with him. We will see Meri get tanner and angrier. Robyn will cry. Christine will say that her and Kody need a vacation. Janelle will raise her children, work, and workout. Whenever they show Robyn's house, I'll wonder to myself why she has a gumball machine by the front door and those odd overly-tall dining chairs. 

Bolded by me. I thought I was the only one that noticed his confused grimace! It's how he spent most of the second season. 

[Manda]

A lot of us have noticed Kody's dead shark eyes and his pretend looks of concentration talking to his wives and the rumpled brow.

[Eternalbluepearl]

I really can't imagine one man fulfilling the needs of 4 women. I definitely can't imagine that man being Kody Brown. 

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I really can't imagine one man fulfilling the needs of 4 women. I definitely can't imagine that man being Kody Brown. 

I wonder if the problem is that polygamy is inherently a patriarchal system, and when you try to be "modern" and quasi-egalitarian like the Browns there's more chaos, because there's not a single undisputed dictator who's opinion is law (i.e., the husband/patriarch). I have a hard time believing that, say the men of the Saudi royal family, care about what their wives think or try to treat them all equally. Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, for example, had twenty two wives that we know of. There's no way he could treat twenty-two wives equally. I remember after 9/11, there was a lot of armchair psychology about whether Osama bin Laden had "daddy issues" because he was simply a face in the crowd of a large polygamous household (I think that's way too simplistic, but back then people were desperate for information in any form about bin Laden).

[ven]

I am watching the banking on heaven documentary about the flds (2006) . One of the escapees is carolyn jessop ( google her )  who looks *exactly* like maddie .  I could not believe the resemblance. Robyn was also married to a jessop before she remarried to kody. Maddie is marrying her aunts brother ? Can someone explain how and why  they are all related ?? 

 

 

[Cleopatra7]

33 minutes ago, ven said:

I am watching the banking on heaven documentary about the flds (2006) . One of the escapees is carolyn jessop ( google her )  who looks *exactly* like maddie .  I could not believe the resemblance. Robyn was also married to a jessop before she remarried to kody. Maddie is marrying her aunts brother ? Can someone explain how and why  they are all related ?? 

 

 

This link explains all the ways Maddie is related to her fiancé, and how Kody is indirectly related to his wives:

http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/post/131101859143/nate-carlisle

[DaisyD]

On 4/25/2016 at 11:58 AM, Shiny said:

I do think the family would support a gay child, or a child that had a different lifestyle than the family. The Browns have a LOT of flaws, but I do think what they preach about family importance is true. 

I think this is why they are my pet fundies. I honestly don't think they are really cult members with horrible beliefs, though the AUB is (I suspect that their excommunication had more to do with their liberal beliefs than going public). It's hard to explain, but all signs (both words and actions) point to people with a very complicated family life doing the best they can for their children. They made their own decisions as consenting adults and support their children in theirs. I wouldn't live my life like they do, but I don't judge them for the decisions they've made.

[Cleopatra7]

I just found out that Kody and Christine's grandparents were both first cousins (among other things). I suspect that Kody is probably from what Mormons call "pioneer stock" (i.e., the first Mormons who traveled cross-country with Brigham Young to settle in what would become Utah) and has polygamy in his family tree. This isn't that remarkable for Mormons with a pioneer background, but it's amazing how all his wives are related to him in direct and indirect ways. It seems like the polygamous gene pool must be very limited, because what are the odds of having four wives who are that close to you?

[ScreamingIzzy]

1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I suspect that Kody is probably from what Mormons call "pioneer stock" (i.e., the first Mormons who traveled cross-country with Brigham Young to settle in what would become Utah) and has polygamy in his family tree.

I think I read somewhere that he is pioneer stock, but I can't remember where. It may have even been on a previous FJ SW thread.

[SweetFellowshipper]

5 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

I think this is why they are my pet fundies. I honestly don't think they are really cult members with horrible beliefs, though the AUB is (I suspect that their excommunication had more to do with their liberal beliefs than going public). It's hard to explain, but all signs (both words and actions) point to people with a very complicated family life doing the best they can for their children. They made their own decisions as consenting adults and support their children in theirs. I wouldn't live my life like they do, but I don't judge them for the decisions they've made.

Yes, they were first vilified by their cult for going public, then for a comment Christine made in an early episode about how she hoped all the wives had sexual relationships with Kody because that's a natural part of marriage, or something along those lines. It wasn't vulgar at all but it was too much for AUB. They have also been vocal since season 1 about their support of gay marriage. etc. I don't think they are religious at all now. Recently, Kody (who I would hate interpersonally) even said that he overreacted about some boyfriend and clothing/modesty issues with his daughters in the past, and as long as they get a good education and are good kids he doesn't care about silly things like dates and tank tops. He's also pretty explicitly said that he doesn't expect more from his daughters regarding purity than he expects from his sons. He's a libertarian and has good-naturedly teased Mariah on social media for being such a leftist. They've never even slightly discouraged any daughters' educations or jobs and have greatly encouraged them. As fundies go, they're not very fundie at all. They've all started drinking, I believe, except for Robyn. I would absolutely hate to be in their mess of a group marriage that originated in total crazy, but in some ways they don't even belong on this board.

It's confusing. I love me some Chad and Erin Paine, but they are not exactly the brightest crayons in the box, and they are going to raise a host of little bigots. Very adorable, attractive, sweet, musically and home-repair-talented, well-dressed bigots, but bigots. Probably undereducated ones. Whereas the Browns have a messed up sham of a marriage with a showboat semi-asshole dad, but they are producing liberal, educated, interesting, open-minded kids. It's a fundie conundrum.

[AliceInFundyland]

Yes to all of this. I like the kids. I feel like these kids could speak up and disagree with their parents (like Mariah) and won't get excommunicated for not drinking the koolaid. Just a big fucked up family. And I felt like this with the other group too (my five wives). They seemed rather liberal.

[ScreamingIzzy]

6 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

 It's a fundie conundrum.

A funundrum?

[IreneIssh]

16 hours ago, ScreamingIzzy said:

I think I read somewhere that he is pioneer stock, but I can't remember where. It may have even been on a previous FJ SW thread.

Is Brown a particularly Mormon last name? I know Allred and Jessop are the obvious ones, but I've never heard Brown outside of this family. 

[closetcagebaby]

22 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

This link explains all the ways Maddie is related to her fiancé, and how Kody is indirectly related to his wives:

http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/post/131101859143/nate-carlisle

So this confuses me, because it says Maddie is marrying her "aunt's brother"...wouldn't that be just marrying her uncle?

[MsSaylor]

I think the aunt is by marriage so it would be her uncles wife's brother

[Pretzel]

21 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

I think this is why they are my pet fundies. I honestly don't think they are really cult members with horrible beliefs, though the AUB is (I suspect that their excommunication had more to do with their liberal beliefs than going public). It's hard to explain, but all signs (both words and actions) point to people with a very complicated family life doing the best they can for their children. They made their own decisions as consenting adults and support their children in theirs. I wouldn't live my life like they do, but I don't judge them for the decisions they've made.

Same here. I don't have such a thing as a pet fundie. Fundies just aren't cute. There's fundies that I can tolerate more than others, though. The Browns aren't really fundies in the traditional sense. They're not looking down on other people for not being polygamous, they don't 'bless your heart' (I made this a verb as I have no other verb for 'blessing your heart') or proselytize to others. While their lifestyle is their political cause, it is not an agenda that they want to push on just about everyone. They encourage their kids' education and bring them up to be independent, critically thinking adults. There's not many other fundies who could claim the same about themselves. 

Though the adults of this family are clowns and as much as their marriage is fudged up, I could actually see myself  spending an entire day with the Browns while I'd not be able to last a single second among any of the other fundies discussed on here (ZZ&PP, Maxhell, etc.)

 

ETA: And I agree on the part that they are able to admit to mistakes and are not afraid to discuss them in public. As much as Kody is a full-time douche, he at least shows some effort and publicly owns up to his misbehavior. He's also capable of disagreeing with his kids and still love them. His kids are actually allowed to speak up and rebel without getting sent to prayer closets or Jesushab.

[seasonsoflife]

23 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

This link explains all the ways Maddie is related to her fiancé, and how Kody is indirectly related to his wives:

http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/post/131101859143/nate-carlisle

"The uncle of Robyn’s stepfather was married to the sister of two sisterwives of Christine’s grandmother. " This is too confusing....

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, seasonsoflife said:

"The uncle of Robyn’s stepfather was married to the sister of two sisterwives of Christine’s grandmother. " This is too confusing....

So if I'm reading this correctly the line would trace from Robyn to her stepfather to his uncle. That man was married to a woman whose two sisters were married to man who was also married to Christine's grandmother. 

[Cleopatra7]

3 hours ago, IreneIssh said:

Is Brown a particularly Mormon last name? I know Allred and Jessop are the obvious ones, but I've never heard Brown outside of this family. 

First names are usually more "Mormon" than last names. Names like Alma, Nephi, Orson, Ammon, Moroni, and Parley are names of famous early Mormons or characters from the Book of Mormon. This is an article from an LDS site about whether giving your child a Mormon name will negatively impact their future:

https://www.ldsliving.com/Does-giving-your-children-Mormon-names-affect-their-future-/s/68224

Quote

Jennifer Mansfield, a current graduate student in the Folklore Program at Utah State University, identified six different types of Mormon names: religious (Moroni, Nephi, Brigham), combination (Taylee, Mandylyn), invented (Kaislen), creatively spelled (Kady, Taeler), ancestral (Freestone, Jenkin), and themed (Monson, Hinckley, Kimball).

...

Some parents also give their children unique Mormon names to point them in a positive direction. Perhaps if a couple names their child Moroni, he will grow to be strong and courageous like Captain Moroni, or Ammon will become spiritually powerful and an enormously successful missionary. 

 

A lot of Mormon children are also named after relatives, but it’s often not as simple as naming a kid after dad or grandpa. “Rather than picking a direct line, people pick these convoluted routes up the family tree to find a name,” Mansfield said. “They pick maiden names, middle names, or first names, and change them.” Parents do this so their kids can have unique names, but some also do it to help their children remember their forefathers. Parents want their children to look to their ancestors and remember them, but they also hope to motivate them to do genealogy work. 

Since the earliest Mormons were mostly of northern European heritage, modern Mormon surnames tend to be commonplace ones like Brown and the like. Allred and Jessop are common within polygamy because almost everyone in the FLDS appears to be descended from these two families. But mainstream LDS members hopefully have a more varied gene pool than their fundamentalist brethren.

[ADoyle90815]

1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

First names are usually more "Mormon" than last names. Names like Alma, Nephi, Orson, Ammon, Moroni, and Parley are names of famous early Mormons or characters from the Book of Mormon. This is an article from an LDS site about whether giving your child a Mormon name will negatively impact their future:

https://www.ldsliving.com/Does-giving-your-children-Mormon-names-affect-their-future-/s/68224

Since the earliest Mormons were mostly of northern European heritage, modern Mormon surnames tend to be commonplace ones like Brown and the like. Allred and Jessop are common within polygamy because almost everyone in the FLDS appears to be descended from these two families. But mainstream LDS members hopefully have a more varied gene pool than their fundamentalist brethren.

I'd also assume that mainstream LDS members have a more varied gene pool, even among those who claim "pioneer stock" because they went along with the polygamy ban. In polygamist groups, the gene pool is more limited because they've tended to marry people they're related to because they're a relative minority in LDS culture, and they believe in keeping their families "pure." I don't know about anyone else, but Kody Brown to me resembles Brigham Young in a way, as they have a similar hairstyle.

[socalrules]

On April 26, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Eternalbluepearl said:

I really can't imagine one man fulfilling the needs of 4 women. I definitely can't imagine that man being Kody Brown. 

I can't imagine Kody fulfilling one woman's needs. He has no insight into the feelings of any of his wives. I am not sure he could cope if he only had to focus on one woman. At least with four wives he can always find one to stroke his ego if only so they can get more favorable treatment than the others.

My guess is that Mariah, who thought her parents had the perfect polygamist marriage, finally realized how much pain the marriage was causing her mother. It may have caused her to allow herself to open her eyes to other ways of life.

Maddie is kind of a shocker because she so obviously wanted away from home and Kody in particular. The only thing I can think of is that she wants some semblance of a normal family life. I really hate that she left school because it's so much harder to go back once you have left. I fear she will jump into marriage/babies and never go back.  

[downtherabbithole]

So most of the ones that started college have now quit? What gives? It seemed like they all had a good plan for continuing on to college.

[Pretzel]

5 hours ago, downtherabbithole said:

So most of the ones that started college have now quit? What gives? It seemed like they all had a good plan for continuing on to college.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think part of it is just speculation. Logan, Aspyn and Mariah still go to college. We don't know whether Mykelti has quit or if she's taking just a few semesters off so she can earn some money and continue her studies later. Maddie has stated publicly that she's going to continue her studies after marriage. So what, it's her choice. Not everybody needs to go to college.