Counting on- Part 7: Counting on Cancellation

[apandaaries]

4 minutes ago, nst said:

 

Iddy likes to stand on fans 

 

To clarify: Iddy likes to stand on and attempt to EAT fans.  But it's okay, since he's teething and the vibration feels great to his gums.  

[nst]

Just now, amandaaries said:

To clarify: Iddy likes to stand on and attempt to EAT fans.  But it's okay, since he's teething and the vibration feels great to his gums.  

yes but next season spud needs to top that 

what will he be able to do 

[apandaaries]

Just now, nst said:

yes but next season spud needs to top that 

what will he be able to do 

Maybe he'll show an aptitude for juggling knives, or playing with scissors, or mastering firearms, or locating objects in the sink drain while the garbage disposal is on, or...honestly, I don't even know at this point.  

Nope, wait, I've got it -- he'll learn balance by walking on the handrails of the porch on the new, gigantic "tree"house.  No need to worry about gravity with that insane treehouse!  We've got prayers!  

[calimojo]

12 minutes ago, nst said:

apparently not 

so far this season we have learned

Jinger can sell a car 

Jana can build a treehouse

the girls need more time together 

Iddy likes to stand on fans 

and ben can sing 

top that next season 

Actually, I think we learned that Jinger cannot sell a car and needed her 17 year old brothers to pretend to sell it for her.

Jana can recommend the "men" build a small outdoor playhouse, only to have JD turn it into a huge project, but Jana did get to buy stuff for a pretend kitchen

The girls spend most of their time together, as evidenced by the show, and even then, they can barely find anything in common with one another enough to even carry on a normal conversation

Iddy's mom likes to play fast and loose with basic safety for her child, by allowing him to climb on and mouth electric equipment

Singing is just one more thing that Ben cannot do, along with talking in complete sentences, changing a diaper without having to psych himself up, or look the least bit enthusiastic about almost any aspect of his chosen life.

 

Next season could be 13 episodes of watching paint dry or grass grow and it would still have more spontaneous action than these shows have had.  And yet, I still watch.  That could possibly be the most unexplained part of all of this. 

[nst]

2 minutes ago, calimojo said:

Actually, I think we learned that Jinger cannot sell a car and needed her 17 year old brothers to pretend to sell it for her.

Jana can recommend the "men" build a small outdoor playhouse, only to have JD turn it into a huge project, but Jana did get to buy stuff for a pretend kitchen

The girls spend most of their time together, as evidenced by the show, and even then, they can barely find anything in common with one another enough to even carry on a normal conversation

Iddy's mom likes to play fast and loose with basic safety for her child, by allowing him to climb on and mouth electric equipment

Singing is just one more thing that Ben cannot do, along with talking in complete sentences, changing a diaper without having to psych himself up, or look the least bit enthusiastic about almost any aspect of his chosen life.

 

Next season could be 13 episodes of watching paint dry or grass grow and it would still have more spontaneous action than these shows have had.  And yet, I still watch.  That could possibly be the most unexplained part of all of this. 

and in the promo he repeats that he has been married and half and has a kid and looks sad and bored at the same time

i like your version the best 

[calimojo]

Yes, I think that Ben is re-thinking the path that he put his life on.  I think that Ben must be smarter than he comes across because he did complete an associate's degree and is apparently in online classes with Moody. 

So, because of that,  I do wonder if he will slowly grow into some critical thinking skills.  Right now, he is so young and has the arrogance of a young man who thinks he knows stuff, but doesn't really.  But if he really sticks with his education,  maybe he will think outside of the narrow box he finds himself in now. 

 

I worry though, that Jessa won't be able to grow with him. I think that young women is as rigid as they come. 

 

The future could be bleak between these two.  If only they had been allowed to actually date, have sex, etc. prior to marriage, they might both have avoided this unfortunate pairing.  But now here they are and they have a beautiful little baby to raise.  I really hope that Ben exercises his role as headship and puts the breaks on growing the family anytime soon. 

[nst]

12 minutes ago, calimojo said:

Yes, I think that Ben is re-thinking the path that he put his life on.  I think that Ben must be smarter than he comes across because he did complete an associate's degree and is apparently in online classes with Moody. 

So, because of that,  I do wonder if he will slowly grow into some critical thinking skills.  Right now, he is so young and has the arrogance of a young man who thinks he knows stuff, but doesn't really.  But if he really sticks with his education,  maybe he will think outside of the narrow box he finds himself in now. 

 

I worry though, that Jessa won't be able to grow with him. I think that young women is as rigid as they come. 

 

The future could be bleak between these two.  If only they had been allowed to actually date, have sex, etc. prior to marriage, they might both have avoided this unfortunate pairing.  But now here they are and they have a beautiful little baby to raise.  I really hope that Ben exercises his role as headship and puts the breaks on growing the family anytime soon. 

how can he do that when Jessa obviously is obsessed with adoption 

i am sure she has circled the calendar via adoption dates and such 

unless the show is cancelled and they agree on what to do in private - if we see next season and it s all about an adoption then I will agree their marriage is doomed - who wants to see Ben act out again via the adoption  all next season 

soon he will be saying - it will be three years Jessa and I are married and I am still changing diapers - input and output 

maybe it's a sex signal between them....

[Natalie22]

I think the relationships between the oldest kids are much different now than they were as kids.  From the all about Jill episode, I think they mentioned the four oldest played together a lot.  Someone else mentioned a few pages back that perhaps John David and Jana get along well because they're both quieter than some of the others, but that may be more of a recent development.  In past episodes, they've mentioned that growing up Jana was a chatterbox and very similar to Johannah.  By the time of the first episode, there is no trace of that personality.  Given the story of the jewellery box she was forced to give Jessa, I would speculate that there were multiple episodes like this that convinced Jana that it was better to appear meeker.  Given what she was probably like as a younger child, I think it would make sense that her and Jill are closer.  Jana was Jill's maid of honor and Jana also defended Jill from Josh's comment that Jill was a tattle-tale.  Jill seems to be much more of a follower, and would have done whatever Jana wanted.  

I'm guessing that JD was/is much more of a follower and would have followed Josh's lead growing up, making the oldest four very balanced when playing.  

I think Jessa would have been the leader of another co-hort of kids.  She has mentioned that growing up, she would always fight with Jana about what they should do.  Jinger always seems to follow Jessa's lead and Michelle has said they were inseparable as kids, so I wouldn't be surprised if she listened more to Jessa than Jana.  Both Jessa and Jinger seem closer to Joseph and Josiah than they do to either Josh (for some pretty obvious reasons) or JD.  I'm guessing when they were little, they would have also been a group of four, with Josiah going between that group and then a group consisting of Joy and the twins.  

I think you can really see this dynamic play out now that they're adults and Jill has moved away.  Jana has lost the sibling that she was closest two, leaving Jessa, who I'm guessing she would never feel super close to if they're personalities clash so badly, and Jinger and Joy, who are somewhat a bit 'young' for her.  Jessa may still have Jinger, but she's also a new mom and in a very different situation than Jinger, leaving them somewhat 'unbalanced' in their relationship now, plus Joy is just so much younger than all of them and would have grown up playing with the boys and sometimes Jill.  This is probably why they all look so awkward when they're together.  Jill may have annoyed viewers, but at least she kind of glued all the sisters together.

 

[nst]

i don't think Jessa "has" Jinger - I think that Jinger is somewhat dependent emotionally on jessa and she plays it up for the camera 

looked that way at the her rehearsal dinner and it looks that way now

again I have said it before Ben is interchangeable 

[choralcrusader8613]

2 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

In past episodes, they've mentioned that growing up Jana was a chatterbox and very similar to Johannah.  By the time of the first episode, there is no trace of that personality.  Given the story of the jewellery box she was forced to give Jessa, I would speculate that there were multiple episodes like this that convinced Jana that it was better to appear meeker.  Given what she was probably like as a younger child, I think it would make sense that her and Jill are closer.  Jana was Jill's maid of honor and Jana also defended Jill from Josh's comment that Jill was a tattle-tale.  Jill seems to be much more of a follower, and would have done whatever Jana wanted.  

I'm guessing that JD was/is much more of a follower and would have followed Josh's lead growing up, making the oldest four very balanced when playing.  

I consulted Lord Google, and found this little blog post Michelle did about parenting twins, which pretty much says the gist of what you've put. In it, Michelle says:

Quote

Because Jana was always getting into things, of course, she was always having to be trained and corrected a little more because I'd say, "No no, you don't climb up on that shelf because you could fall and hurt yourself." John would watch and probably think, "I'm not going near that!"

The post can be found here: http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/michelle-duggar-raising-twins/

Reading that made me feel so sad for Jana. Also, they even said in one of their books that Jill being "easy-to-care-for" was a sign to them that God wanted them to keep having kids.

[Natalie22]

12 minutes ago, nst said:

i don't think Jessa "has" Jinger - I think that Jinger is somewhat dependent emotionally on jessa and she plays it up for the camera 

looked that way at the her rehearsal dinner and it looks that way now

again I have said it before Ben is interchangeable 

Thanks for point that out - I definitely forgot about that.

I would still guess that Jessa enjoys/ed being the more stable and in charge one, but I'm sure trying to be more of the emotional support gets exhausting.  Perhaps this is why this season they've seemed less close.  Jinger will have had to take a backseat to Spurgeon plus living in a different building may have meant Jinger will have had to either deal with her emotions by herself or find someone else.  

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, nst said:

yes but next season spud needs to top that 

what will he be able to do 

Preach fire and brimstone to Uncle Joshley?

Actually, I doubt that Jessa and Ben will ever let their kids near him.

[mizandry]

Poor Amy. It's taking the Duggars SO LONG to finish her new home. 

[punkiepie]

Oh, Jinger.  She seems to have lost her spark along the way.  She used to be full of moxie and a real individual, not just part of the Duggar pack.  I mean, FJ owes it's origin to her infamous eye roll  and snarky thumbs up!  She had a spark that now seems disminished.  We never got to see the spark Jana had before her parents squashed it, so that's probably why it doesn't seem as noticable as with Jinger, at least IMHO.  

[mizandry]

32 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Because Jana was always getting into things, of course, she was always having to be trained and corrected a little more because I'd say, "No no, you don't climb up on that shelf because you could fall and hurt yourself." John would watch and probably think, "I'm not going near that!"

Bolded because... well, I think we all have a pretty good idea of what "trained and corrected" actually means in that household -- and I'm sick of Michelle being such a cryptic fakeass about it. Just admit that you beat your kids and stop fucking humble-bragging about it with your shitty code words. 

[FleeJanaFree]

6 hours ago, amandaaries said:

Apologies for the wall o' text, but also, if you haven't read I Fired God, by Jocelyn R Zichterman, you should.  I've just begun it, but it delves into IFB churches/cults and is fascinating, in all the worst ways.  

I loved that book. It's a blessing, y'all. 

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

@mizandry Just wanted to say I love your avi! it's like Jana just realized how bat-shit crazy her parents are lol.

[mizandry]

26 minutes ago, Eatingintheprayercloset said:

@mizandry Just wanted to say I love your avi! it's like Jana just realized how bat-shit crazy her parents are lol.

Bahahaha, thank you! And, oh gosh - I definitely see that. As soon as she made that face I was like, "THAT'S GOTTA BE MY FJ ICON" -- perfectly sums up my feelings about this family, so it serves the snark well~ Thanks Jana (but also pls run the moment you see a way out of this cult... I believe in you)! 

[defraudedbychipendales]

10 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

I think the relationships between the oldest kids are much different now than they were as kids.  From the all about Jill episode, I think they mentioned the four oldest played together a lot.  Someone else mentioned a few pages back that perhaps John David and Jana get along well because they're both quieter than some of the others, but that may be more of a recent development.  In past episodes, they've mentioned that growing up Jana was a chatterbox and very similar to Johannah.  By the time of the first episode, there is no trace of that personality.

 

I'm guessing that Jana is like me. In public I am very quiet and very shy and self conscious, but get me with my sisters and I am as loud and outspoken as any. She may have just been uncomfortable on camera, especially since she was about 12 (?) at the time of the first show - an awkward age for most. 

[goldfishgoddess]

The show is definitely going to be cancelled.  Why?  Because despite Michelle Duggar sending me TWO emails to remind me to watch the show the past couple weeks,  I have forgotten and not even bothered to switch on TLC.  

The only thing that will save them is another sappy courtship or unfortunate pregnancy.  

[Natalie22]

2 hours ago, defraudedbychipendales said:

I'm guessing that Jana is like me. In public I am very quiet and very shy and self conscious, but get me with my sisters and I am as loud and outspoken as any. She may have just been uncomfortable on camera, especially since she was about 12 (?) at the time of the first show - an awkward age for most. 

That's definitely possible, but none of her family describe her that way.  Instead, they talk about how outgoing and outspoken she was as a child.  I believe Michelle has said that at some point Jana realized that all her talking could get her into a lot of trouble and became more reserved.  To me that doesn't sound like being shy in public (although that could exasperate the situation), but that something else happened.

[calimojo]

Jana herself has stated she is fine with taking a backseat to her sisters.  She has said she prefers to be quiet and not in the limelight.    She probably is less reserved in private than on the show but I think her personality is likely rather passive.  You can see about the only time she seems to light up is when she is with her much younger siblings and nieces and nephews who probably look up to her.  She may have been an imp and wild child, but that is all gone now, and from what the TV show documents, that seems to have been gone from a fairly young age.  During the first special, she was shy and quiet and I doubt that happened overnight. 

 

I just hope that Jana has become quiet and reserved only as a strategy for survival, rather than because her spirit has been broken.  If she is wise enough to use those traits as a strategy, it bodes well for her ability to adapt.  But if her spirit is broken and this is all that is left,  it is hard to imagine her changing much.  She became the good girl, the responsible girl who doesn't cause trouble, and takes care of pretty much everyone else's needs (Parenting the kids for Michelle,  running the clerical side of her dad's businesses, sewing Jill's altered bridesmaid dresses, babysitting everyone's kids, doing home improvements for Jessa, caring about the little's play time, coming over to help Jill cook minute rice, and so on)

 

 

[ClaraOswin]

17 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

I consulted Lord Google, and found this little blog post Michelle did about parenting twins, which pretty much says the gist of what you've put. In it, Michelle says:

The post can be found here: http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/michelle-duggar-raising-twins/

Reading that made me feel so sad for Jana. Also, they even said in one of their books that Jill being "easy-to-care-for" was a sign to them that God wanted them to keep having kids.

I hate when people say they "train" their kids. WTF? Idiots.

I wonder what age Jana was when she was at the time. Probably too young to understand the dangers of such acts. But I'm sure she was beaten to stop the COMPLETELY NORMAL behavior. Michelle is such a freaking bitch.

[refugee]

On 4/22/2016 at 5:16 AM, CoveredInBees said:

I think JD is doing the same thing. Of course he has more freedom than her and is probably less pressured about 'having BABIEEEES'. He'll also get to pick from a bigger pool of potential brides (because he's the man so gets to go a courting, and is more likely to meet someone whilst out having a coffee or whatever), she is restricted to men that make it past JB.

Don't know about this. A young man from our former church just got his AA degree and started working at a stable job, and wouldn't you know it, the hints have started falling hot and heavy (apparently especially from the elders of that church) about picking out a wife, settling down, and starting a family.

Come to think of it, some of those elders have unmarried daughters growing ever older as they wait at home for some young man to come to Daddy and ask permission to court.

Sheesh, can't believe how gossippy I sound, after going years afraid to open my mouth there, for fear of being accused of gossip and/or divisiveness.

[Maggie Mae]

Watching the weirdly scripted, stilted conversation between the sisters, I was hit with a sudden feeling of sadness. I feel bad for these women. They don't have other friends. They don't know how to interact with each other. This conversation is being filmed, so anything that they might say or do will be both seen by the parents  (and random other people), and the Duggars have encouraged "accountability" where they all tell on each other. There's no escaping it. Any type of "spark" or defiance or even just a joke would go back to JB & JM. They don't have anything to talk about because they don't do anything. There is no local gossip to trade. No pinterest fails or cat videos to share over dinner. No reminiscing about that time that Jana got drunk at prom and puked in her date's truck and they all managed to hide it from the parents. What could they possibly talk about? Not spin class or those art classes for grownups with wine. The menu and how fancy it is works for them. 

I was sort of reminded of a friend I grew up with who had a larger family. It was horrible. Everything we did had to be tailored to the little kids and we were watched and conversations redirected constantly. However, my friend was allowed to occasionally hang out with other people and go to school and participate in sports and after-school activities. Said friend was always the one who when asked "what do you want to do when you grow up" the answer was "be a mom." She made that happen, and I'm sure she's happy about it. 

I wish that the Duggars would have sent their kids to school. I went to a small school and saw the same 20 other kids every day for 8 years. When some of them annoy you, you can go talk to someone else. And you always get to go home at the end of the day. When a Duggar is annoyed by their "classmate" they have to be around them 24/7 until one of them gets married. I can't even imagine how small their world must be.