Counting on- Part 7: Counting on Cancellation

[samurai_sarah]

Continued from here:

 

[albanuadh_1]

damn post got lost in the transfer. About Jana and husband: 1) perhaps she doesn't believe she could have a life of her own outside of the marriage; 2) she is like Jill and wants hubby around 24/7 although she doesn't strike me that way; 3) she enjoys outdoor work and is tired of being Cinderella; 4) she prefers someone like JD ( I don't mean that in a creepy way!) and 4) she wants someone polar opposite to Josh!

[nst]

who thinks Joy has serious trepidation about doing the show after last week's episode

 

[foreign fundie]

So we are to believe that these 'girls' (all grown women) really miss each other and long for some special together time, so they go out, away from their responsibilities, too a fancy place and eat fancy food and really enjoy uninterrupted 'us girls' time to discuss all they walked through and their up coming seasons of life. Then one of them says, "you know what, lets invite those TLC guys over! Then they can completely defeat the purpose of the outing and we can spend the whole weekend ministring to the leghumpers! After all, we are a TV family, and we wouldn't know what to say to each other anyway!"

See my point? TLC is their work. So this is not a girls get away. It is the opposite. If it was a girls getaway, we would never know. The fact that 1.3 million people tagged along made it just as much 'special sister time' as bananas are pink.

[EmCatlyn]

12 minutes ago, albanuadh_1 said:

damn post got lost in the transfer. About Jana and husband: 1) perhaps she doesn't believe she could have a life of her own outside of the marriage; 2) she is like Jill and wants hubby around 24/7 although she doesn't strike me that way; 3) she enjoys outdoor work and is tired of being Cinderella; 4) she prefers someone like JD ( I don't mean that in a creepy way!) and 4) she wants someone polar opposite to Josh!

I am guessing (mostly from what others have said about her occasional signs of intelligence) that Jana wants someone she can respect.  She doesn't have a way of articulating the concept, so she talks about what she has seen that would cause her to respect a man.

It is also probable that she sees the best marriages as those where husband and wife are both around, the model her parents emphasize.  I am sure that just as she has been taught that dancing leads to lust and that homeschooling is a way to keep kids pure and that Catholics are evil, she has been taught that when a man has to work away from the home, the wife and family suffer.  So, what work, other than what her father does  (sales--of cars, of real estate, of his family) can a man do and "work from home"? Construction and home repairs and garden maintenance and farming.  

I think also that in saying she wants a man who is ready to work with his hands that she can work alongside, she is dismissing possible matches with some of the ATI/IBPL "crown princes" who are different versions of Josh (hopefully less sleazy and not molesters) and have been handed office jobs where they don't accomplish much except feel important.

She seems to want a real life partner.  I hope that she gets one.

[p_a_d_d_y]

Years ago on another message board about 17/18/19 K&C, I posted about the fact that the show was repetitive and boring. I predicted early in its run that it would be cancelled simply because it became mind-numbing to watch the same over and over again and again. Sadly, I was mistaken in that assessment of the show. So despite this being incredibly boring, and even with ratings nowhere near what the original pulled in before the scandals, and even with the lack of sponsors/advertisers, I'm thinking that TLC will hold onto this dud into several seasons. The leghumpers will watch paint dry if the Duggars painted the wall, and I think there's still enough of them to float this along. I really hope I'm wrong again...

Even if it gets cancelled, I think the Duggars will always have TLC with specials.

I watched on YouTube (although they're probably already removed for copyright violations by now), and I agree with most of what everyone has said. Not only is this boring, but the girls so clearly can never be who they would be had they been raised in a 'normal' household. I know people wish them free, but I have little hope there.  

"Walking through" is infuriating. They have said that so many times in almost every episode. I feel sorry for Anna on one hand, and the other I don't; very mixed feelings about her. One thing I feel strongly about is that Josh should not be talked about at all. Bringing him up in every episode and acting like everything has blown over (or ever will), just sick. I really do see him coming back and TLC doing the interview with him; except of course nothing will really be discussed, it will just be an attempt to bring them to their former glory (and money). Ugh! 

 

[chris]

3 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

<snip>

I think also that in saying she wants a man who is ready to work with his hands that she can work alongside, she is dismissing possible matches with some of the ATI/IBPL "crown princes" who are different versions of Josh (hopefully less sleazy and not molesters) and have been handed office jobs where they don't accomplish much except feel important.

She seems to want a real life partner.  I hope that she gets one.

Now there's a thought. Saying that she wants someone who works with his hands and not in an office may be the only/strongest "acceptable" IBLP way to turn down the sons of high ranking ATI families without causing major drama.

And rewatching that part of the show....Just because Jana doesn't want a guy with a desk job, JB is going to push/ok ONLY guys with a desk job. Just to teach her some lesson or another

[nst]

the only reason the show last the last couple of years was slightly entertaining was because of the courtships and weddings of Jill and Jessa. 

Now that they are married - it's just blah - Jessa and Ben are not entertaining as a couple as when they were courting, Jill and Derick we don't see 

so what is the point 

Are people really going to tune in while Joy courts a boy - give me a break -  Jana, Jinger and Joy are boring beyond belief - they clearly hated all the courtship marriage questions as we all did.

so if gets renewed we will get more obvious when you are getting married questions 

Who care's it's not the same move on cancel the show

 

[p_a_d_d_y]

I'm referring to very early on it grew boring, but people still watched; this was before the newest weddings and babies. I can see why people tuned in for that. It is "back to" boring after those events, but it still has viewers. It seems like many of the hate-watchers generally watch later or elsewhere to avoid any ratings increase. I'm not so sure that the old way is still the only way to assess ratings, because Direct TV on a Modern Marvels episode said that they track all their customers viewing habits; though I'm not sure if this in any way contributes to the ratings; I really hope it doesn't. 

I've been shocked to see that many of the fans still refer to the family as "wholesome" on the TLC and Counting On Facebook pages. No joke. 

Nu2Duggarville: I'm not sure how to reply yet in a new thread from an old thread. So anyway, I agree that the dinner was completely staged, but I also think the Ben with Flame was staged, too. The difference is that I think Ben was more relaxed with him/them than he is around the Duggars so his acting was a bit more relaxed, too.

Also, with the girls, I think they do probably only have a list from daddyo of what they can and cannot talk about on the show, but in private I don't think they talk about much more either. Someone before (sorry, can't remember who) mentioned that they probably don't trust their sisters very much because of the mandatory reporting to their parents, or counseling as they called it, going on. They don't seem very comfortable around each other at all, and that's always shown through despite what they were doing or talking about.  

 

[Mothership]

On the previous thread, @nst mentioned how joyless Joy is on the show.  I agree.  It's very telling when the happiest we see Joy is when she's chasing a cow.

Another season of courting rumors and the possibility of a Sierra planned wedding is brain numbing.  I stopped watching the 19KAC about two season before the Joshley scandals.  I've only come back because of the scandals.  So, TLC either needs to bring him out of hiding and let us see what's really going on or give it up.  I don't care about the Dullards and CA.  I'm done watching again and will look for recaps here.

[somanybooks]

Re: Men/husband's work--I remember when JD was doing all his flight training that he wanted to be a real pilot but JB nixed that because it would mean he would have to be away from home ( I'm assuming his "married " home ) too much.

Re: Eating pork.  They did say early on that they do not eat pork.  They eat a lot of ersatz pork products.  They have specifically mentioned turkey bacon so I assume they eat turkey hot dogs and turkey pepperoni as well.

Re: Red hat guy.  I could tell it was Bin by his hairline in the back . I've noticed that he has an unusually low hairline that goes halfway down his neck.  It always looks kind of strange to me.

I had to laugh when Joy described the prairie dresses as "bags".

Analytica49 posted:Thinking about the "Counting On" series, I come to realize that it's all about normalization of the Duggars.

Here's a family that elevates procreation above almost every human activity--maybe other than praying. It's a family in which the parents aggressively limit their daughters' freedom, sexuality, and personal development. It's a family where genuine education is minimal. It's a family whose history includes sexual assault on his sisters by the oldest boy, who grows up to work for a conservative "pro-family" organization while violating many of the norms of his religion behind his wife's back. It's a family whose perspective on anyone who is not heterosexual and gender-conforming is reactionary and hateful.

TLC can no longer pretend that this version (the real one) of the Duggars is ethical or worth emulating. So TLC--clearly with the connivance of the Duggars themselves--seeks to recast their image to make it more "normal." So we get lots of scenes of cute babies, romantic courtships and spouses, and bonding sisters. We get talking heads in which each Duggar kidult represses the religious fanaticism that makes them what they are, and pretends to be just an ordinary guy or girl.

There are two main problems with this normalization of the Duggars:

1) It is utterly false. It represses so much of the truth about the Duggars that it is the equivalent of outright lies.

2) It removes virtually everything that could possibly be of interest to a reasonably wide range of viewers. How many people really want to watch boring children and boring kidults going about their boring lives, and talking, even more boringly, about what little future they have?

So the process of normalizing the Duggars, which was intended to save the show, is a resounding failure all round.

I fully agree with this. The recasting of their image began with all those weird "family togetherness" promo shots and the girls all cozy and huggy with each other--behavior we have never, ever seen from the Duggars. It just emphasizes how fake this whole series is.

 

 

[Analytica49]

Among the many non-believable aspects of the recent episodes, for me, were the cases where one sister would question another about who she is interested in. I think this was done to both Jinger and Joy-Anna. But the idea that those sisters would not know who their sisters have a fancy for is completely farfetched. After all, Jinger is not meeting some guy at a park or coffee shop. Joy-Anna is not going out on secret dates.

Those young women spend ALL their time together. Despite the claim that they need to get away for a "girls' weekend" in order to talk, they know all about each other's lives. The exception may be Jessa, but I would bet even she is around a lot, or they are at her house.

So, I assume all the questions about who someone is interested in, what kind of husband they want, etc., etc., were almost completely fake, a part of TLC's imposed story-line. TLC wants viewers to be all agog at the possibility of an upcoming courtship. Meanwhile, they have NOTHING to show. But the uncritical viewer will tune in for the next season (which I am becoming resigned to the possibility of) in order to see Jinger's or Joy-Anna's supposed courtship.

[SassyPants]

And one of the saddest parts of this whole debacle is that JB and M are likely reaping the greatest financial reward.

They are all puppets in JB's cult.

[p_a_d_d_y]

I know TLC desperately wants a courtship, but would a courtship even be interesting at all? Doubtful. How would they even go about it given recent revelations? Are they going to do what they have always done talking about their 'values' for the camera which now has an even bigger sinister undertone than before? They can't really do the same as they've always done and have people not see through it, right? Then again, as I said before they have fans who still insist they're wholesome... 

I do agree that they're (whether TLC, Jim Bob, or both) trying to rebrand them, but they're failing miserably and coming across as a complete joke. 

 

[HereticHick]

I believe that one of the many problems of the Duggarlings is all their critical thinking skills have been blanket trained right out of them, and they have been simultaneously been trained to believe that everything new/unknown is at best, inferior, and at worst, evil.

The result? I think their knee-jerk immediate reaction to anything new or not wholly familiar is "I don't know what this is, & I am incapable of figuring it out."  

That mental reaction kicks in, instantly, BEFORE they spend even once second ATTEMPTING to comprehend what the thing is.

So--hand them a menu with a few unfamiliar words, and their brain immediately says "I Don't know" before it makes any attempt to make some sort of contextual guess.

Unfortunately, I seem to run into a lot of my fellow Americans with the same mental blinders when I travel abroad--their brain tells them that if they see a non-English word, it must be incomprehensible, and there is no point to attempt comprehension.

One of my favorites-- the whiny middle-aged American couple seated next to me on an Air France flight. Upon being handed a foil-topped beverage at breakfast, the woman promptly said "I don't know what this is; I can't read French."  They foil topped beverage's label had A. a picture of an orange  and B. the words "jus d'orange"

[Cleopatra7]

36 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I believe that one of the many problems of the Duggarlings is all their critical thinking skills have been blanket trained right out of them, and they have been simultaneously been trained to believe that everything new/unknown is at best, inferior, and at worst, evil.

The result? I think their knee-jerk immediate reaction to anything new or not wholly familiar is "I don't know what this is, & I am incapable of figuring it out."  

That mental reaction kicks in, instantly, BEFORE they spend even once second ATTEMPTING to comprehend what the thing is.

So--hand them a menu with a few unfamiliar words, and their brain immediately says "I Don't know" before it makes any attempt to make some sort of contextual guess.

Unfortunately, I seem to run into a lot of my fellow Americans with the same mental blinders when I travel abroad--their brain tells them that if they see a non-English word, it must be incomprehensible, and there is no point to attempt comprehension.

One of my favorites-- the whiny middle-aged American couple seated next to me on an Air France flight. Upon being handed a foil-topped beverage at breakfast, the woman promptly said "I don't know what this is; I can't read French."  They foil topped beverage's label had A. a picture of an orange  and B. the words "jus d'orange"

I wonder if the viewers who still buy the "wholesome family" routine have the same "ugly American" attitude towards the new and unfamiliar.

[FreeJana]

4 hours ago, albanuadh_1 said:

4) she prefers someone like JD ( I don't mean that in a creepy way!) and 4) she wants someone polar opposite to Josh!

I know you didn't mean your comment in a creepy way but I have to say, the one thing that makes me uncomfortable in this show (for some reason) is their relationship. The way she built him up in the interview, the way she acted all nervous around him when explaining the tree fort idea, the way the twin boys explained that all girls cut hair but JD would only go to Jana? Did anyone else pick up something strange or am I losing my mind? 

I think Jana at the very least has the more outside contact. Between Pinterest, people pointing out that she doesn't shove her family's  pro-life or anti-gay ways down anyone's throat, the words she uses now vs how she used to speak and how the others speak i.e. "Not a fan of.…" as one of the most recent. She always seems to have this "I know something you don't know" look about her. I'm hoping she flies away soon.

Again, maybe watching this show is causing me to lose my mind but just a few thoughts/observations. 

[JenniferJuniper]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

 I think also that in saying she wants a man who is ready to work with his hands that she can work alongside, she is dismissing possible matches with some of the ATI/IBPL "crown princes" who are different versions of Josh (hopefully less sleazy and not molesters) and have been handed office jobs where they don't accomplish much except feel important..

Agree. She doesn't know any guys who work in normal accounting or law offices.  Her perception has been shaped by those she knows from Gothardism with David Waller being the poster boy for the ATI princes.   Effete, self-absorbed, never actually gets anything accomplished.  And then there is lazy-ass Josh, who weaseled his way into a 6 figure no-heavy-lifting position only to find himself with plenty of time on his hands to do bad things.

I was struck by the fact that she actually said she didn't want to be stuck at home while her husband went to work. This is remarkable coming from a woman who has been raised to believe that tending the home and birthing babies is all she should ever aspire to.  I hope she gets out of there sooner rather than later.

Joy hates dresses (and probably would love to ditch the skirts in favor of jeans) and they all snarked on their old frumpers. Aside these revelations, this was a show about absolutely nothing.  The constant teases about marriages to guys they haven't even met was incredibly embarrassing.  This coupled with TLC's apparent lack of interest in headliner Jill (must be expensive to send a crew down to Central America as opposed to having them hang around Tiny Town, leads one to believe the title of this thread is spot on.

[amers]

I have this neighbor that clearly doesn't like me. All of our interactions are her tight smiles and fake laughs. Our conversations are just light banter, and she doesn't seem to have anything to say. 

 

This show is like 6 of her got locked into a cabin together. Or however many there were. 

 

Anna said there could be 2 more married women and 4 caseats next time. So clearly she plans to have more kids with Josh. I have felt sorry for her, but that was an absolutely insane thing to say. Your husband abandoned you with 4 kids after he got caught cheating on your with a stripper and seeking other affairs. He didn't come clean because he wanted too. He got caught. And here you are daydreaming about having MORE of his children before he's even come home, jobless mind you? Hands down craziest thing I've ever heard. I don't feel sorry for her now. I feel like she's either mentally ill or enjoys attention. 

 

 

 

[ksgranola1]

I didn't take that as Anna referring to herself; but more likely the other sisters.

I wish Jana could find out about farmersonly.com. Wish the was a way to tell her that. Does she tweet, I wonder?

Clearly she would like to be a partner & helpmate to a husband . A farmer is a perfect choice for her. maybe some young buck out there saw the show & will contact JB. I can dream. I will not stop watching until I see Jana free.

And hell yes, I would like them to address Josh's situation. The only real part of this episode was when Anna started talking about her situation. Also, when I went to explore the Intouch piece if crap, there was a sidebar that said Anna & Josh were going to couples therapy. Of please God, make that be so.

[coffeefilter]

37 minutes ago, FreeJana said:

I know you didn't mean your comment in a creepy way but I have to say, the one thing that makes me uncomfortable in this show (for some reason) is their relationship. The way she built him up in the interview, the way she acted all nervous around him when explaining the tree fort idea, the way the twin boys explained that all girls cut hair but JD would only go to Jana? Did anyone else pick up something strange or am I losing my mind? 

I think Jana at the very least has the more outside contact. Between Pinterest, people pointing out that she doesn't shove her family's  pro-life or anti-gay ways down anyone's throat, the words she uses now vs how she used to speak and how the others speak i.e. "Not a fan of.…" as one of the most recent. She always seems to have this "I know something you don't know" look about her. I'm hoping she flies away soon.

Again, maybe watching this show is causing me to lose my mind but just a few thoughts/observations. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's picked up on this. When they were interviewed and asked which one of them will be in a courtship first or something, I thought Jana was pointing at JD and herself XD I dunno, just the way they interact makes me uncomfortable too.

[sophie10130]

RE: Jana's ideas for the guy she wants to marry

I know they all say that they are open to anything, but sometimes they want and pray for this, but couldn't Jana just say "I've prayed about it, and God has laid it on my heart that I have a husband who is a hard working outdoorsy man"? 

Isn't that the final say? How could they say that she was being too picky if God himself laid it on her heart? If she has those desires, why can't God have put them there?

I have had this issue with Christianity for a long time. It seems as though the Duggars see their wants and dreams as failures and being too worldly, but if God is the all-everything they describe, why would he give them such dreams if they're not going to fulfill them? What would be the purpose of that? So that they would know rejection? I just don't see it.

I don't think God wants people to be in unhappy, unhealthy marriages, and I see almost everyone on this show in an unhealthy relationship. This is definitely beating a dead horse, but it was brought back to focus when Jana described her "dream" man and still using the "but only if God will lay it on my heart" line.

1 minute ago, coffeefilter said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's picked up on this. When they were interviewed and asked which one of them will be in a courtship first or something, I thought Jana was pointing at JD and herself XD I dunno, just the way they interact makes me uncomfortable too.

I think they just don't have a model for what a regular boy/girl or sister/brother relationship SHOULD be. The only model they have is marriage. They can't have different sex friends, and they can't even really be that close to their different sex siblings. So to me, Jana and JD are the ones that got through because they're twins and also because they probably slipped through the cracks since they were some of the oldest and they were older and close by the time the new rules about breaking sister/brother relationships started. They live in such a lifestyle that does not include the type of relationship they have, so to me it makes sense that their relationship looks a bit creepy. I don't think it makes it less creepy, just more sad.

[felinefundie]

I don't think it's very fair to think every male/female sibling relationship in this family has to have sinister undertones.  What's so wrong about fraternal twins being close and sharing a special bond, even if they are different genders? Just because Josh is a disgusting and repugnant individual doesn't mean all the Duggar boys are (in this particular case. The whole lot of 'em have some pretty despicable beliefs). But hey, all we can see is how they interact on TV. Not enough to make any assumptions either way. 

 

 

[snickerz]

I thought it was funny that Jana said something like how she would love to spend more sister time in the future, but NOT a whole weekend - more like going out for coffee! LOL, in other words, she was NOT enjoying being stuck with them for a whole weekend. And I can NOT see her on a farm. Farm work is sun up to sun down, exhausting, dirty work. Jana likes to look nice, and have things "just so" Perhaps a "gentleman farmer" who has some acreage with a few cows grazing and horses to ride, but has another income source.   Also, I think JD might be the next to court. He's talked several times recently about his future family.

[boston2495]

5 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

So we are to believe that these 'girls' (all grown women) really miss each other and long for some special together time, so they go out, away from their responsibilities, too a fancy place and eat fancy food and really enjoy uninterrupted 'us girls' time to discuss all they walked through and their up coming seasons of life. Then one of them says, "you know what, lets invite those TLC guys over! Then they can completely defeat the purpose of the outing and we can spend the whole weekend ministring to the leghumpers! After all, we are a TV family, and we wouldn't know what to say to each other anyway!"

See my point? TLC is their work. So this is not a girls get away. It is the opposite. If it was a girls getaway, we would never know. The fact that 1.3 million people tagged along made it just as much 'special sister time' as bananas are pink.

Seriously! The whole time I was watching this, I kept thinking, four of the five girls on this trip share a bedroom, and the fifth one never seems far off anyway. All their talk about not getting to spend as much time together as they would like made zero sense. They share. A bedroom. I didn't think it's literally possible for them to spend any *more* time together, or to "miss" each other's company for that matter...