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Question for the Group: What makes someone fundie or evangelical?


Avalondaughter

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As pointed out in this thread, Christianity is not the only religion with fundamentalism.  Think of the ultra orthodox/ Hasidic (umbrella term for the various sects) Jews as Jewish fundamentalists, FLDS as Mormon fundamentalists, some of Isis as Muslim fundamentalists, etc.  I'm sure even fundamentalist atheists exist.  I personally view fundamentalism as a religion's most devout followers.   I've only heard fundamentalism in the context of Christianity.  But one can look at a large Quiverfull family and a large Haredi family and draw conclusions.  Both use their numbers for political power (if you're in a wealthy NYC suburb, you should be familiar with Rockland County and Kyrias Joel in Orange County).  (I also grew up in a wealthy NYC suburb-- very close to Hillary Clinton territory).  

Years ago (2004, which was an eternity ago), I was polled by Newsweek (this was the year of my political awakening) for a story they were doing on evangelical Christians.  They defined evangelical Christians as those who self identify as 'born again' and left it at that.  Of course through the years I've fallen down a rabbit hole researching it more.

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I'm a Christian...I'm serious about my faith. I even have a degree in Biblical Studies from Liberty University. I belong to what could be described as an "evangelical" denomination. HOWEVER...In my faith community, the rules, regulations and legalism of fundamentalism is considered to be WAY off the mark and wrong. In my "world" of faith, DOING is more important than saying. There have been "fundies" who have visited our church and they don't ever come back. One of our pastors is a recovered addict who has ear gauges and some amazing tattoos. We welcome EVERYONE. I think I've written about our reaction to the young man who killed one of our pastors while driving drunk. That has been condemned by some in our church and they've been invited to go to church elsewhere. 

I grew up as a "cultural Catholic"...12 years of Catholic schools, first communion, confirmation, the whole deal. It didn't do anything for me except scare me to death...until about my sophomore year of high school when I just stared going thru the motions. My family was not religious at all. 

Oh, I smoke, drink, dance, drive too fast, cuss like the sailor's wife I am and while I watch my mouth around certain friends (out of respect for them), for the most part, my beliefs are just part of who I am now...I try to LIVE out my faith. The rules and crap aren't nearly as important as my favorite passage of scripture, Matthew 25:31-46. That passage, in a nutshell, encompasses my entire personal theology. 

 

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Keep in mind that not all fundies are frumper wearing, quiverful homeschoolers.  The vast majority don't have large families, dress mainstream, send their kids to public schools.  Don't let looks deceive you.  

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I live in Las Vegas...I get to avoid the whole fundie thing...reason #12348961321 I won't go back to my hometown. 

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2 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I live in Las Vegas...I get to avoid the whole fundie thing...reason #12348961321 I won't go back to my hometown. 

I'll take the Mormon missionaries over the fundies (in general) any day of the week.  (Native Las Vegan)

In my book, you're a fundie if you're on a strict "my way is the ONLY way" path, whether religion or other issues.   Evangelical gets a little harder to define (and it's one concept I've just never really gotten because in general Catholics aren't out trying to convert everyone else, at least in my experience).

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I'm more of the "whatever floats your boat" type. I look more at character than beliefs anyway. One of my best friends is Buddhist and she's more Christian than some Christians I know. It's more of "money talks, bullshit walks" for me. Either live what you say you believe or STFU. Kinda why I hate fundies. 

Oh, and we've managed to avoid the missionaries the whole time we've lived here. It doesn't hurt we live in a gated apartment complex now. 

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I don't think I really fit any of the labels and descriptions given so far.  It's more like a fuzzy Venn Diagram.

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58 minutes ago, CyborgKin said:

I don't think I really fit any of the labels and descriptions given so far.  It's more like a fuzzy Venn Diagram.

A very fuzzy Venn diagram!

One of the problems is that Christianity has splintered into so many different groups in 2,000 years.  Probably the only centralized belief is that Jesus = Christ = Savior.  Although some Christians also believe he was an historical person who just had the right ideas for salvation.

To address something above - I use "mainline church" to mean a denomination - a religious organization with an established doctrine, name, overall structure, and centralized leadership, although even within denominations people squabble about doctrine.  A "denomination" or "mainline church" can also be used to mean an organization that is generally accepted by the dominant culture to be "respectable" - as opposed to a sect or a cult.  Of course, sects can become denominations over time and so can cults!  Opinions on what is or is not "respectable" vary too because people tend to object to being told that they belong to a cult.

My Fundie-meter is activated when a person thinks "ecumenical" is a dirty word.  To me that means they think they know the only True Way and reject other forms of Christianity so I back away fast.

Back to "evangelical."  I maintain that evangelism (conversion) is a central tenet of Christianity - as opposed to many other religions where converting people to their faith isn't important.

Quote

 Mark 28:

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 

That is pretty clear.  It's the Great Commission, and Fundies take that very seriously although Pope Francis recently invoked it again too - evangelizing with joy.

@RosyDaisy talked about evangelizing by "works."  Doing good (witnessing by your deeds) so that people are attracted to Christianity and want to join.  Fundies like to evangelize by proselytizing - getting into people's faces and preaching hell fire at them until they give in.  

Whether or not you can actually reach salvation by good works is another big divide in Christianity and gets you into the "works versus grace" debate.  I never really understood that, but it has to do with Jamesian teaching (works) and opposed to Pauline teaching (grace) and is apparently Very Important.  I think James was right but then I never liked Paul.

Someone on another thread posted this link to a test that I find quintessentially Fundie.   www.spiritualgiftstest.com

It has 105 questions to help you find your spiritual gifts.  I scored 0 for Faith, 0 for Evangelizing, and 0 for Prophesy.  As a non-proselytizing and very cynical atheist I thought that was about right.

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Preach the gospel to every "creature"?

My bunnies need to be Saved?

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27 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

Preach the gospel to every "creature"?

My bunnies need to be Saved?

You don't know your KJV? Tut, tut!

But - Whoops!  This former missionary kid got her texts confused.  That is Mark 16 above wanting to save "creatures."  He also was the one who went on about handling serpents without harming yourself - thus inspiring snake handling ministries.  Who says you can't cherry-pick the Bible?

Matthew 28 just confines the Great Commission to "nations" so your bunnies are probably not eligible for Salvation.  

Quote

Matthew 28: 

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

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Yeah, I know KVJ, but I just couldn't resist. :P

I refuse to try and preach to my bunnies, at any rate, because they want to take over the world, and I support this evil enterprise.

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9 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

Yeah, I know KVJ, but I just couldn't resist. :P

I refuse to try and preach to my bunnies, at any rate, because they want to take over the world, and I support this evil enterprise.

My dogs want to take over the world so I'm afraid your bunnies don't have a chance!

It's Pinky and the Brain when it comes to my dogs - and Fundies.

 

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Pinky and the Brain is awesome. lol

But my bunnies are far more powerful, because in the King Fluffle Edition of the Bible it clearly states:

"In the beginning, Bunnies created the Heavens and the Earth."

"And the carrot was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the water dish. And the Spirit of Bunny moved upon the face of the hay."

=P

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On 4/17/2016 at 8:20 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

.

Fundie: Just to keep it simple, I'm going to discuss mostly Protestant Fundamentalists in the US. At this level, you have a lot of Apostolic Christians, the Bates family, and arguably, the married Duggars (pre-scandals Josh and Anna are probably a good example). More visible and vocal in their faith than Fundie Lite, but willing to bend the rules here and there, and not completely cut off from the mainstream.

 

 

Which Apostolics are you referring to?  The Pentecostal brand, or the ACC?  Just wondering, because while I would categorize the Pentecostal kind as fundie, I'm not sure I would the ACC, although I think plenty of others would.

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I'm happy this came up...I've been struggling with understanding the same questions.  Raised Catholic in a Southern Baptist/Pentecostal world, I was automatically a weirdo.  Even though I left the church over a decade ago I am still having a hard time escaping the mindset that I was taught throughout childhood and young adulthood.  

I mentioned to my sister a while back that we were raised fundamentalist and she looked at me and said she didn't believe it was fundie exactly...just the old "Baltimore Catechism".  Whatever it's called...to me everything that I read here and other places fall in line with the way, not only my home was, but every other family I knew across North Louisiana.  My sister has been utterly terrified of God since she was young, I don't remember ever being taught that God was a loving entity...only Jesus was, he's the only thing that could save you from the wrath. Heavy mix of good old fashioned Catholic guilt and some Southern Baptist pulpit beating....I remember being told that Catholics weren't Christian and Baptists were heretics....it made for a confusing childhood that ended with me running full tilt away from any form of Christianity and taking every religious history class I could get my hands on.  Where I'm from....Fundamentalism appears to be a way of life. 

I agree with all those who have said that fundamentalism exists in many, if not all, major religions.  It's a state of mind...those who take the gospels (whichever gospels) so literally and seriously that they end up corrupting the idea contained within.  

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3 hours ago, klynn said:

Which Apostolics are you referring to?  The Pentecostal brand, or the ACC?  Just wondering, because while I would categorize the Pentecostal kind as fundie, I'm not sure I would the ACC, although I think plenty of others would.

Is the Pentecostal kind the ones who grow their hair super-duper long and put it up in crazy styles and they only wear maxi skirts? Because I meant that kind.

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1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Is the Pentecostal kind the ones who grow their hair super-duper long and put it up in crazy styles and they only wear maxi skirts? Because I meant that kind.

that's Pentecostalism all right.

My ex was a Pentecostal Apostolic, and boy does he have some stories...

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8 hours ago, Alicja said:

that's Pentecostalism all right.

My ex was a Pentecostal Apostolic, and boy does he have some stories...

Do tell! I'm kinda fascinated by Pentecostal Apostolic fashion and lifestyles, since a lot of Apostolic women are all over Instagram and Pinterest.

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Yep, that would be the pentecostal kind :)

The ACC women wear skirts as well, but also those looser fitting culottes, and some wear non tight jeans and workout attire.

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Do tell! I'm kinda fascinated by Pentecostal Apostolic fashion and lifestyles, since a lot of Apostolic women are all over Instagram and Pinterest.

Sure! Well, according to the "official" church rules, women are supposed to only wear skirts and never cut their hair, and men can never wear shorts and have to have their hair a certain length. At the church's school, Christianity is mentioned in ALL subjects, including science. In a chemistry text book, one of the questions was "should a Christian use ethanol?"

His parents weren't fundie, but they had a lot of courtship-like rules in place for us to follow. We weren't allowed to be without supervision, we couldn't sit super close to each other, etc. etc. Of course, we didn't follow those rules, all the time, only when his parents were around. His parents didn't like me too much because I had "loose" morals or something, and frequently tried to meddle in our relationship.

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On 4/17/2016 at 9:20 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

I'm Jewish so I'm not quite as familiar with Christianity, but here's how I understand these terms:

Mainline: you go to church, maybe participate in church events, believe in God, celebrate religious holidays, might be varying levels of observant, but generally "in the world" and not especially strict.

Evangelical: Can overlap with Fundamentalist, but you believe that you need to convert people to your religious beliefs. This can be anything from just talking to people about your religion all the way up to knocking on people's doors or going on missions. You might be a Fundamentalist, or you might not be.

Fundamentalist: Not exclusive to Christianity (there are Fundamentalists of all faiths). You're legalistic, often interpret your religion's teachings and scripture literally, are very observant, and generally very conservative politically and socially. And within Fundamentalism you have degrees:

Fundie Lite: Think Modern Orthodox, Alyssa Webster, Raquel, most of the Mormons you see on Pinterest. Observant and conservative (and often Evangelical), but not very removed from mainstream society, if at all. Step up from "devout [Religion]", but overlaps with that.

Fundie: Just to keep it simple, I'm going to discuss mostly Protestant Fundamentalists in the US. At this level, you have a lot of Apostolic Christians, the Bates family, and arguably, the married Duggars (pre-scandals Josh and Anna are probably a good example). More visible and vocal in their faith than Fundie Lite, but willing to bend the rules here and there, and not completely cut off from the mainstream.

Devout Fundie: I'd say around here is where I'd put people like the Maxwells or Haredi Jews. Much more insular and strict (no television, less leeway when it comes to attire), and very limited interactions with "the world". 

 

Another Jew here, with a similar understanding. But, I think there is one category missing: Conservative Christian. Conservative Christian falls between your "Fundamentalist" and "Fundie Light." 

I have a family member who grew up with virtually no Jewish education or observances.

  • She married her high school sweetheart right after college.
  • Her husband dropped out of graduate school to enter seminary and become a Methodist minister, and she eventually became a Methodist.
  • She is very conservative politically.
  • She is very religious and her children attended a private Christian school.
  • She dresses in what I consider modest attire, but that does not preclude Bermuda shorts and tasteful sleeveless tops.
  • She enjoys music we grew up with, but mainly listens to Christian music. 
  • She works for a Christian organization, but it is Catholic, not Protestant.  
  • One kid considered a fundie college with curfews, mandatory chapel, dress code, and beliefs that premarital sex, homosexuality, transgender, alcohol, smoking, etc. are sins and participating in any of those activities is grounds for expulsion.  He eventually decided upon a mainstream Christian college.
  • She can easily envision her teenage son's girlfriend as a family member in the future.
  • The teenage lovebirds are going to prom together and afterwards, the girls will sleep at one friend's house, and the boys at another. She hopes her son will be where he said he'll be, "but he's 18 . . ."
  • One kid is probably gay, but since homosexuality is a sin, he'll have to stay in the closet.

I used to think she was Fundie Lite, but I've decided she is a Conservative Christian.

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