What 'Judge not' and Casting Stones Mean

[roddma]

Conservative Christians often throw around 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' and' judge not' I don't think they know what the verses mean. Jesus said 'casting stones' to save a woman from stoning.The Pharisees were supposed to bring the man for stoning, and they were only going to punish the woman. "Judge not' is refering ot superficial judgment. None of these verses are implying we should be sinless before calling out others for wrong doing.Here's a good explanation of 'judge not'

http://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-judge.html

[Ali]

This is referring to a specific passage in the bible below:

Spoiler

John 8:1-11

1but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

The interesting part about this passage is many scholars do not think it should be in the bible or belongs in this specific location. There are many reasons for this and I will just name the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

• As you stated, only the woman caught in adultery is present in the story. Where is the man? Old testament law dictates that the man is to be punished also.
• Some early manuscripts do not have this passage. 
• The Greek in this passage does not seem to be written by the same author as the rest of the book of John.
• Also, this story does not seem to belong here.  It reads better if this passage is left out.

Here is more information about this:

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/neither-do-i-condemn-you--3

[roddma]

Many things were not in the original Bible like spare the rod. Religious nuts forget the Bible was written over a long time period, added to, and translated many times. Casting stones and the rod are the only two I am  aware eof that got added but Im sure there's more.

[refugee]

22 hours ago, Ali said:

This is referring to a specific passage in the bible below:

  Reveal hidden contents

John 8:1-11

1but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

The interesting part about this passage is many scholars do not think it should be in the bible or belongs in this specific location. There are many reasons for this and I will just name the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

• As you stated, only the woman caught in adultery is present in the story. Where is the man? Old testament law dictates that the man is to be punished also.
• Some early manuscripts do not have this passage. 
• The Greek in this passage does not seem to be written by the same author as the rest of the book of John.
• Also, this story does not seem to belong here.  It reads better if this passage is left out.

Here is more information about this:

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/neither-do-i-condemn-you--3

Wait, isn't Desiring God John Piper's organization?

Ew, Piper gives me the creeps, especially his tweets over the past few months. And so many people I know hang on his every word as if he's speaking the gospel itself.

(If it's not Piper's website, then apologies. Carry on.)

ETA: Oh, cheez whiz, it *is* John Piper's website. And it looks like the article is written by him. My advice: take it with a large grain of salt. Like maybe a kilogram-sized salt crystal. Maybe more.

John Piper is known, among other things, for his misogyny. He has proclaimed such things as women should not work out, and thus become muscular, for one thing. I can't remember if the reason is that muscular women are threatening to men, or if they secretly wish to be men, but it's something mind-boggling. All women must defer to all men, from what I've read of his.

Isn't he influential in the Biblical Manhood and Womanhood circles? (one of whose basic tenets is that wives must *respect* their husbands because the bible says so -- and which people like LoriKen and the Pearls transform into carte blanche for abusive husbands).

[THERetroGamerNY]

Many things were not in the original Bible like spare the rod. Religious nuts forget the Bible was written over a long time period, added to, and translated many times. Casting stones and the rod are the only two I am  aware eof that got added but Im sure there's more.

Or how the story of Jonah is a spoof... Basically an Onion article that was put into the Bible and fundies believe it's a literal, factual account...

[Ali]

@refugee I did not look at the website too closely.   It had information about this particular topic and it looked to be in line with what I remembered reading when I studied this particular topic in the past. I have studied it from valid sources.

[Iamhispurity]

Actually there is a great debate about what was added when and by whom to different books of the bible. Every find is to examine carefully since basically every renowned biblical scholar has a different opinion and good arguments to back it up. But as a general rule: the New Testament is way less edited than the Old Testament. And easier to study since there a lot of really old translations and copies of the books (especially in Syrian, Coptic and the like).

Most people who claim to have found things that have been edited are just making really really good educated guesses. The science on that changes constantly and there is no real consensus. 

[refugee]

14 hours ago, Ali said:

@refugee I did not look at the website too closely.   It had information about this particular topic and it looked to be in line with what I remembered reading when I studied this particular topic in the past. I have studied it from valid sources.

Thanks for the clarification. In the early days when John Piper was not well known, I found his materials thoughtfully written. Now that I'm re-thinking everything from the past two decades, and I've seen some of his more recent writings, his name is sort of triggering for me. Not your problem, of course. Mine, I've got to deal with it.

I just didn't want to give his website credence, with some of the recent stuff he's posted (or has been posted in youtube videos). For example, talking about a wife enduring abuse in order to show proper godly biblical submission:

"If it's not requiring her to sin but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season... she endures a *smack* for one night, and then she goes and asks the church for help..."

 

[Ali]

@refugee I just had a chance to watch the video. I will show myself to the prayer closet for linking to that website.

I am curious about how these churches would respond to a woman seeking help about an abusive husband. I am sure there are some churches would provide wise counsel and help the woman, but I fear the response women would receive from some churches that promote submission.

[Dark Matters]

12 minutes ago, Ali said:

@refugee I just had a chance to watch the video. I will show myself to the prayer closet for linking to that website.

I am curious about how these churches would respond to a woman seeking help about an abusive husband. I am sure there are some churches would provide wise counsel and help the woman, but I fear the response women would receive from some churches that promote submission.

To the bolded: most would probably blame her for her own abuse and as long as her husband says "sorry", he's good as gold.

[samira_catlover]

Contrarian here: I am totes cool with judging (do it all the time!) but there has to be SOMETHING nice to be said for enforcing a general rule of order within a society.  Nonetheless (IMNSHO) it should be tempered with plenty of mercy and grace, and with a good solid awareness of what the heck are the local norms.

People fail in their daily ways. They fail A LOT. (Think it's in our genes or something.) The history of humankind could probably be written as "LOTS of Major Fails and Screw-Ups."  

If the Blessed Eternal actually treated us humans as we really deserved by our actions, Planet Earth would be desolated and left to the cockroaches.

Norms? Ethics? Values? All nice, but take the risk they might be culturally-contingent.Speaking just for myself, I'd be a very happy camper if people read Micah 6:8 and tried (to best of abilities) to carry out those marching orders.

[SilverBeach]

The Bible, in its many versions, is a library, not a book.

2 hours ago, refugee said:

Thanks for the clarification. In the early days when John Piper was not well known, I found his materials thoughtfully written. Now that I'm re-thinking everything from the past two decades, and I've seen some of his more recent writings, his name is sort of triggering for me. Not your problem, of course. Mine, I've got to deal with it.

I just didn't want to give his website credence, with some of the recent stuff he's posted (or has been posted in youtube videos). For example, talking about a wife enduring abuse in order to show proper godly biblical submission:

"If it's not requiring her to sin but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season... she endures a *smack* for one night, and then she goes and asks the church for help..."

 

John Piper is delusional. Simply hurting her? Does the reverse hold true? No love, no Jesus in Piper. Women so need to leave these women hating groups.

[Anonymousguest]

On 4/17/2016 at 4:02 PM, refugee said:

Wait, isn't Desiring God John Piper's organization?

Ew, Piper gives me the creeps, especially his tweets over the past few months. And so many people I know hang on his every word as if he's speaking the gospel itself.

(If it's not Piper's website, then apologies. Carry on.)

ETA: Oh, cheez whiz, it *is* John Piper's website. And it looks like the article is written by him. My advice: take it with a large grain of salt. Like maybe a kilogram-sized salt crystal. Maybe more.

John Piper is known, among other things, for his misogyny. He has proclaimed such things as women should not work out, and thus become muscular, for one thing. I can't remember if the reason is that muscular women are threatening to men, or if they secretly wish to be men, but it's something mind-boggling. All women must defer to all men, from what I've read of his.

Isn't he influential in the Biblical Manhood and Womanhood circles? (one of whose basic tenets is that wives must *respect* their husbands because the bible says so -- and which people like LoriKen and the Pearls transform into carte blanche for abusive husbands).

Oh Wow. I hadn't heard the booked before, I had to look it up.

 

Consider what is lost when women attempt to assume a more masculine role by appearing physically muscular and aggressive. It is true that there is something sexually stimulating about a muscular, scantily clad young woman pumping iron in a health club.

But no woman should be encouraged by this fact. For it probably means the sexual encounter that such an image would lead to is something very hasty and volatile, and in the long run unsatisfying.

The image of a masculine musculature may beget arousal in a man, but it does not beget several hours of moonlight walking with significant, caring conversation. The more women can arouse men by doing typically masculine things, the less they can count on receiving from men a sensitivity to typically feminine ”

Such craziness. I'm a distance runner and love to work out with heavy weights. Hubby seems pretty happy with my muscles, and we are both satisfied. And  have taken plenty of long walks on the beach throughout our multiple decade marriage. ROTFL! sounds like he had a thing for fit women but convinced himself it wouldn't be good. 

[refugee]

5 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

ROTFL! sounds like he had a thing for fit women but convinced himself it wouldn't be good. 

Apparently his wife was either working out, or started working out after he said this. LOL!

[paganbaby]

On 4/18/2016 at 11:53 AM, Ali said:

@refugee I just had a chance to watch the video. I will show myself to the prayer closet for linking to that website.

I am curious about how these churches would respond to a woman seeking help about an abusive husband. I am sure there are some churches would provide wise counsel and help the woman, but I fear the response women would receive from some churches that promote submission.

I'm sorry to say I just read a couple of posts that answer your question:

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/04/18/a-challenge-to-abused-christian-woman-regarding-teachings-on-divorce/

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2016/04/18/westminster-seminary-pa-remains-mum-on-whether-battered-wives-should-be-excommunicated-when-leaving-abusive-spouses/

 

[Alicja]

Wait, the story of Jonah was a parody? My childhood is a lie. Thanks VeggieTales.

[roddma]

Speaking of Jonah, I highly doubt if anyone turned into  a pillar of salt either.

[THERetroGamerNY]

Wait, the story of Jonah was a parody? My childhood is a lie. Thanks VeggieTales.

The part in the story where even all the animals in the city are forced to wear sackcloth, and repent of their sins, generally is regarded as a major clue that the story isn't all that serious...

The veggies lied, dammit!!!