Fr. Pavone can't wait to punish people for abortions

[47of74]

Once again Mr. Pavone is spouting off...

rightwingwatch.org/content/anti-choice-leader-floats-possibility-punishing-abortion-accomplices-women-who-are-not-coerc

Quote

One of these is Frank Pavone, the head of Priests for Life, who responded to Trump’s comment by saying: “We don't aim to imprison , we aim to liberate them from the shame and guilt and wounds abortion brings. The punishment should be for the abortionist, not the baby's mom.”

But Pavone had a hard time keeping up this argument when, in a recent radio appearance, a sympathetic caller pressed him on the logical fallacy.

Pavone was a guest on "The Drew Mariani Show" on Relevant Radio on Tuesday when a listener named Cory called in to say that he thought Trump was being “remarkably philosophically consistent” on the issue of punishing women for abortion. If a fetus is the equivalent of a five-year-old, he asked, why wouldn’t a woman who has an abortion face the same punishment as a woman who hires someone to kill her five-year-old?

Pavone then seemed to open the door for the possibility of punishing women who are insufficiently remorseful about having an abortion. “What you have to do,” he said, “is look at each circumstance very carefully, and just like we do with the murder of born people, what were the — how guilty, how responsible, how free was this person, how much did they know and intend what was going on?”

God he makes me fucking sick.  He really does.  Clowns like him really don't care about human life once it has exited the female body unless there is political benefit for him and his GOP pals.  Clergy (priests, bishops, etc) like him are a large part of the reason I left the church in 2012.  He makes all the decent and kind men in the clergy look so bad by his actions.

[AmazonGrace]

How is he going to determine who is sufficiently remorseful?

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

How is he going to determine who is sufficiently remorseful?

I'm imagining auto da fe cuinating in burning at the stake:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9

I think many anti-abortion people do want to punish women who get abortions, but they can't say that publicly. Their idea seems to assume that when abortion is re-criminalized, the broader public will naturally see the personhood of fetuses and embryos and the laws will change accordingly to punish women. Perhaps they're thinking in terms of how civil rights laws did the same for blacks, but it seems like many people still don't consider blacks to be actual people, so good luck with that. Besides, I don't think the personhood of the embryo or fetus is the real issue so much as it is about punishing sexuality. If it was about embroynic personhood, we would see protestors in front of fertility clinics, where more embryos are disposed of than abortion clinics. However, women who go to fertility clinics are trying to fulfill  society's expectation of motherhood, so those embryos are not a concern.

[Georgiana]

There really should be a restriction on clergy that whatever they do, they must do it in the same manner that Jesus did it.

So, when it comes to punishing people for sins, we should do it in the same way Jesus did to the fallen women and tax collectors: forgive them and invite them in to a nice meal.  Oh, that's not enough?  Ok.  You can clothe them as well.  

If you want to nail people to a cross for sins, you're following Caesar, not Christ.  

[Mercer]

39 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

If it was about embroynic personhood, we would see protestors in front of fertility clinics, where more embryos are disposed of than abortion clinics. However, women who go to fertility clinics are trying to fulfill  society's expectation of motherhood, so those embryos are not a concern.

I have to agree. I was doing a presentation about human growth and development for some new hires at work recently, and I got to the part where the power point (which I had inherited from a previous instructor) mentioned that during the first two weeks after fertilization of the egg, 75% of all potential pregnancies are estimated to fail spontaneously.

No one blinked an eye, they just scribbled a note and waited for me to move on to the next point. No one reacted.

I'm certain given our demographics that at least some of the people in my class would be opposed to abortion and would state in that context that life begins at conception.

If that were true, the 75% figure would be a tragedy on a massive scale. Dealing with that kind of loss would lead to a major emotional response and instead of directing energy toward the comparatively rare case of abortion, they would be focusing their political and scientific will on preventing this senseless natural waste of human of life! But nope, no one cares, nor should they.

It's hard for me to believe that anyone really thinks a few cells are the same as a person, because when it comes down to it, I've never seen anyone act like it other than very selectively.

[samira_catlover]

>>Pavone then seemed to open the door for the possibility of punishing women who are insufficiently remorseful about having an abortion. “What you have to do,” he said, “is look at each circumstance very carefully, and just like we do with the murder of born people, what were the — how guilty, how responsible, how free was this person, how much did they know and intend what was going on?”<<

"Oh, I'm sorry, feel so AWFUL, really didn't mean to do it, not my intention to do something like this, I was having tough times!"  That's what 2 drivers in my area said, after a high-speed 2013 crash (blackbox figured it at 106 miles per hour) killed a woman's spouse, her sibling, and her three-year-old child. (Both drivers were convicted on 3 counts of vehicular manslaughter--which is considered a "nonviolent" offense around here.) 

The judge sure didn't buy it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/judge-sentences-drivers-in-deadly-2013-crash-to-20-years-in-prison/2016/05/09/28fa8f10-1603-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

And while I'm too darned cynical for my own good, does anyone know someone in the criminal justice system who DIDN'T get all weepy and repentant while looking at a nice term in prison? (I'm betting maybe one case in twenty.)