Dear Abby blames rape on the victim's inability to communicate

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

They were in his truck when he began to feel her up. “He took me to a semi-isolated area and we ended up having sex. It wasn’t fun or pleasurable. I told him he was hurting me, but he didn’t stop until the third time I said it. He was very upset with me.”

The girl then asked Abby if this falls under the definition of rape. While Abby acknowledged that it falls under sexual assault she blamed the girl for “a severe breakdown in communication.”

“He had made no secret that he wanted sex with you, and may have interpreted your willingness to kiss him after he took you somewhere other than what was agreed upon as a signal that you were willing, even though you didn’t say so,” Abby explained.

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/dear-abby-blames-girls-rape-on-communication-breakdown-in-bewildering-advice-column-gone-wrong/

 

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/life/entertainment/story/2016/apr/13/communication-breakdown-serious-consequences/359517/

 

Because rapists don't rape, the victims fail to communicate they're not consenting.

[unsafetydancer]

This is awful! Why would anyone say that wasn't rape?

I get that a lot of parents are non committal at best about talking about sex with their kids (dear god mine made it so awkward I still cringe) but I'm pretty sure anyone decent would consider that rape.

Basic rule for life, No yes = rape!

[violynn]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!    That is all.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

How do we change the mindset that "not saying 'no' equals 'yes' "? Shouldn't the assumption (or better yet, DON'T ASSUME) be: yes means yes. Anything else equals NO! 

[libriatrix]

Disgusting disgusting disgusting! 

how the HELL does "you're hurting me. You're hurting me" not count as "no"?!! 

Does Abby really think that "oh I'm hurting her? I'll just go right on with what I was doing then" isn't rape?! How.

[RosyDaisy]

WTH? That is definitely rape.

[Mercer]

So if I punched Abby in the face and she said "Ow that hurts," I should probably punch her again, right?

I mean she didn't technically tell me to stop...

[AmazonGrace]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/stevens/ct-dear-abby-rape-advice-column-balancing-0414-20160414-column.html

 

A breakdown in communication doesn't lead to sexual assault. Ignoring a person's humanity and agency over his or her own body leads to sexual assault.

But over and over, we tell young women to question their own actions:Think about the signals you were sending.

[Gossamer1]

She kissed him so that means she wanted painful sex with him... Got it.

[sockinshoe]

On 4/14/2016 at 7:41 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

How do we change the mindset that "not saying 'no' equals 'yes' "? Shouldn't the assumption (or better yet, DON'T ASSUME) be: yes means yes. Anything else equals NO! 

Never mind the fact that this young woman said "You're hurting me", etc. I hope somebody finds her and lets her know that this was not okay and that it says absolutely nothing about her, her character, or her future. She communicated about as clearly as any high school student would in that sort of situation. What more does Abby want? 

I'm so upset about this entire thing, especially the people saying "she should have known better". I'm sorry, but what part of "making out" in a parked car is consent to sex? 

[devoe364]

Its like tea. She wasn't sure if she wanted tea, but she thought it might be okay. The tea was way too hot, and was burning her. When she didn't want the tea because it was burning her, he kept forcing the tea down her throat. That is not okay. With tea, or anything else.  

[Lyle Lanley]

Has Dear Abby gotten the cascade of angry letters yet? I can't remember how long it takes for the columns to reply to them, I know when Ann Landers or Dear Abby would say stupid shit they would end up doing some sort of half assed apology.

[FloraKitty35]

 

[Bethella]

6 hours ago, devoe364 said:

Its like tea. She wasn't sure if she wanted tea, but she thought it might be okay. The tea was way too hot, and was burning her. When she didn't want the tea because it was burning her, he kept forcing the tea down her throat. That is not okay. With tea, or anything else.  

I know I've posted this before but it's worth posting again.

[devoe364]

@Bethella I had just watched this when I posted the bit about tea. Hence the  

I am just old and don't know how to post videos. 

[ShepherdontheRock]

TW: sexual assault

Spoiler

My freshman year of college, this guy I was casually friends with convinced me to do tequila shots. This made me drunk. I don't even remember the exact sequence of events, but this ended up with us in my dorm room, me really drunk and he convinced me to engage in sexual acts with him. At first it was okay, but then it ended up with me feeling sick and wanting to stop and him keeping going for quite a bit. I was, in the meantime, feeling sick and had thrown up MULTIPLE times as a result of what he ended up doing to me.

My friend later confronted him about it and he acted like he did nothing wrong, like "I thought she wanted me" and "I was drunker than she was" and other shit like that.

First of all

-If someone's obviously sick/in pain, any idiot should know that you should stop doing it.

-He had been drinking too, but not drunk enough to not remember what happened or have some responsibility for his actions. In fact, this is the most bullshit defense I've ever heard, because if you were before a judge and jury and your defense was "I know I committed robbery/assault/murder but I was drunk/high at the time, so I shouldn't be held responsible" you'd still convicted. And go to prison.

-Also women can be drunker than men on less alcohol. Especially if said man is ALWAYS drinking.

I'm so tired of hearing bullshit excuses fr rapey/assaulty/douchey behavior. Wanting to makeout/cuddle does not equal wanting sex. Or anything else. And the parties involved are responsible for obtaining consent. You cannot blame someone for being violated because they "didn't communicate well enough."

Sorry for the rant guys, this shit just pissed me off.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I'm sorry that happened to you, @ShepherdontheRock. Rant away. This shit pisses me off, too.

[FundieFarmer]

Been there too, SOTR. Makes me mad because if someone like Abby had told me that right after my assault when I had those questions in my head, I probably would've accepted it. It took forever to believe it wasn't my fault. Abby's answer is a disaster.

[sockinshoe]

21 hours ago, FundieFarmer said:

Been there too, SOTR. Makes me mad because if someone like Abby had told me that right after my assault when I had those questions in my head, I probably would've accepted it. It took forever to believe it wasn't my fault. Abby's answer is a disaster.

CW: Sexual assault-type things (I'm not yet comfortable calling it an assault for various reasons)

Spoiler

Me too. I was a teenager and a guy took advantage of me while I was drunk. He asked if I wanted to go make out in a secluded area and my head said "nononononononono" and my drunk teenage mouth said "I guess? Sure?". He did not make out with me. 

I'm uncomfortable calling it an assault or a rape because I'm afraid of being a woman who has been assaulted. Also, I don't know to what extent this really is assault. I did say "Sure" to making out, and so this Dear Abby thing is really upsetting because I was that girl. I didn't know if I had heard right; I didn't know if I remembered my consent/lack thereof correctly. It could very easily have been a "miscommunication" and for too long I thought "that's fine. It's not like anything bad happened to me". It's only recently that I've realized that, no, this was not okay.

 

[TeaGrannie]

If that's the kind of advice the current Dear Abby is giving then it's time to retire!

My heart goes out to anyone that has gone through this. I cannot imagine how hard it would be to heal from that kind of trauma. 

[FundieFarmer]

I can't really "like" your post in good conscience, @sockinshoe, 'cause that feels wrong, but I know exactly what you're saying. *hugs*

11 hours ago, TeaGrannie said:

 

If that's the kind of advice the current Dear Abby is giving then it's time to retire!

 

AMEN. Geez. 

[ShepherdontheRock]

Also, can I just point out that the reasons things like

Spoiler

the dumb-ass disgusting frat bros chanting "No means yes, yes means anal."

are so scary is that there are legitimately men out there who think like that. Men who do not care if you say no, or safeword, even if it's obviously. Or if you're, you know, PASSED OUT. And then they probably have the nerve to excuse themselves like..."I didn't realize she didn't want it"

 

[violynn]

Some men prefer it that way.  

20 hours ago, sockinshoe said:

CW: Sexual assault-type things (I'm not yet comfortable calling it an assault for various reasons)

  Reveal hidden contents

Me too. I was a teenager and a guy took advantage of me while I was drunk. He asked if I wanted to go make out in a secluded area and my head said "nononononononono" and my drunk teenage mouth said "I guess? Sure?". He did not make out with me. 

I'm uncomfortable calling it an assault or a rape because I'm afraid of being a woman who has been assaulted. Also, I don't know to what extent this really is assault. I did say "Sure" to making out, and so this Dear Abby thing is really upsetting because I was that girl. I didn't know if I had heard right; I didn't know if I remembered my consent/lack thereof correctly. It could very easily have been a "miscommunication" and for too long I thought "that's fine. It's not like anything bad happened to me". It's only recently that I've realized that, no, this was not okay.

 

I liked your post not because of the content, that's horrifying.  But in recognition of your courage and putting your truth here, especially since you are still so uncomfortable with the acknowledgements.  It's been almost 4 years since I was attacked, and while I've healed a lot, I still hate using the word 'rape'.  Now that I *know* what rape is, it almost feels too ugly to use it to describe what happened to me, regardless of the fact that it was brutal and ugly and rape.

My experience in no way could be looked at as anything but what it was:  a beating and rape.  But I still came home and felt so, so much guilt, questioned myself on what I could have done to prevent it, blamed myself, begged everyone else to please not hate me for getting raped...

I think everyone who goes through what we have, @sockinshoe, tries to rationalize by figuring out how it could have somehow not been what it was:  an attack on our personhood.  It's easier to try to explain away why someone would maybe just not understand that all those No's, (by word or deed, or consciousness), instead of face the fact that anyone could hurt another human being like that for nothing more than a 15 second squirt of their pleasure.